Talk:Transgressive (linguistics)

I think the English translations could be more precise, but I am not sure about the correct English grammar in this case. Someone more fluent in English should check this proposal and then include it in the page:


 * Usednuvši u okna, začala plakat. (Having sat down at a window, she begun to cry.) — past transgressive

(meaning: She sat down at a window, and as she did it, she started crying. The most important part of the sentence is "she started crying", the rest of the sentence specifies under what circumstances it happened.)


 * Děti, vidíce babičku, vyběhly ven. (Children, having seen grandma, ran out.) — present transgressive

(meaning: The children saw their grandma, and as they saw her, they run out (to greet her, etc.) The most important part of the sentence is "the children ran out", once again the rest of the sentence specifies the circumstances.)

Also I think both cases are past transgressive, but that would have to be confirmed by a linguist.


 * Although I am not so fluent in English too, I think that your translations are O.K. So, I decided to place them into the article. I think eventual corrections will be made more probably there than here. --Pajast 14:54, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Trangressives in Slavic languages
In my opinion, trangressives are not an exlusive matter of Czech and Slovak only. They originate from the Proto-Slavic language and I am sure they could be found as archaic forms in all Slavic languages. Trangressives were "dead" in spoken Czech long before the 19th century. They were used in the Czech literature thanks to the national awakeners' (Josef Dobrovský, et al.) work at the turn of the 18th century. They codified a grammar of the language used in the Bible of Kralice (published in the 16th century!), which was regarded as an ideal of literal Czech. --Pajast 15:35, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Is this different from adverbial participles at all? For example in Polish (my native language) analogical construction are called imiesłów przysłówkowy "adverbial participle". There are two such verb forms: contemporary and anterior. They don't inflect for gender or number, and this is different from Czech, I think. E.g.:

Usiadłszy przy oknie, zaczęła płakać. - "Having sat by the window, she began to cry" - anterior adv. part.

Dzieci, widząc babcię, wybiegły na zewnątrz. - "Children, seeing [their] grandma, ran out".

The anterior one is today hardly used even in the literary language, while the contemporary participle can still be encountered. Pittmirg 16:35, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

possible vandalism

 * "Someone has written this, but I do not agree with them. You can still hear transgressive in Czech. - Artists are using this often, because transgressives are a useful tool for descriptions.)

That was added in the articel in reference to Transgressives coming out of use. I'll remove it soon. 91.66.42.138 (talk) 23:14, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
 * I've removed it. I've asked a linguist friend who is Czech and he told me that these forms are rare and archaic even in writing and never used in colloquial spoken Czech. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 19:58, 11 June 2017 (UTC)

Lithuanian
Why Transgressive (pusdalyvis) and Gerund (padalyvis) are mixed on this page? Transgressive is Transgressive and Gerund is Gerund, why Gerund is even mentioned here? 91.198.17.200 (talk) 11:58, 24 October 2017 (UTC)