Talk:Transport in London/Archive 1

Ticket restrictions
I suppose i wouldn't be allowed to include FCC's new ticket restrictions as a scheme to decrease passenger numbers at peak and more. Simply south 17:34, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't see why not. It might fit in well after the paragraph about Crossrail, as that mentions the pressure on the commuter network; mentioning FCC's ticket restrictions as a short-term solution might also be relevant. Don't forget that there are also peak ticket restrictions on services by some other TOCs too (First Great Western springs to mind). --Dave A 18:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * However, they have introduced it on the evening peak, between 4:30-7 (all times in pm). Simply south 18:54, 16 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes - FGW also has evening ticket restrictions. As far as I recall, off-peak tickets to Reading and Oxford are not permitted on fast trains leaving Paddington at certain times.

what to do now? FCC have released some stations from their grip in the restrictions. In that case which is a better example? FGW or FCC. Simply south 14:34, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

PS, follow link.

Through stations
My personal opinion is that putting the information about through platforms in the lead paragraphs for Heavy rail is slightly confusing. I suggest moving it into the Commuter rail subsection where cross-London services are discussed. I also think it would be clearer in this section if we mention orbital lines in general, as well as the West London Line - these lines don't cross central London but provide orbital links through inner London. I'll go ahead and make the changes now - see what you think! --Dave A 23:52, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

I admit your changes are a lot better than mine. I just want to make two points.

1)The West London Line is a line which crosses London. It is the only other line thant thameslink, except when the relocated CTRL opens

2)There is still some debate over whether the East London Line will stay as a London Underground line or if it will be converted to a suburban commuter line, even though it is adopting shortened versions of commuter-style trains. See Talk:East London Line.

Keep it up

Simply south 10:47, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Although the WLL "crosses" London, exactly the same can be said for the other orbital lines like the North London Line - and until a couple of years ago, services from East Anglia ran across London using the NLL to get to Basingstoke. That's why I was attempting to make a distinction between lines which cross central London but are otherwise radial (like most Underground lines, Thameslink or Crossrail), and lines which bypass the centre in order to serve various suburbs (like the West London or North London Lines). Similar, I wouldn't call CTRL a cross-London line, because it does not cross central London. Hopefully that's clear!


 * I am absolutely certain that the East London Line will no longer be run by London Underground, and in fact I may dive into the debate you have brought to my attention! The BBC News articles are very poor sources for this information as they consistently get the facts wrong - particularly when they announced the "scoop" that the ELL would be closed for two years, even though that information had been publicly available for months!
 * The key fact supporting this is that the ELL will be run as part of TfL's London Rail Concession. The track will be in the hands of Network Rail, NOT the PPP Infracos, and the services will be run as part of the same package as the distinctly non-LU North London Railway.
 * Thanks for your help with the article! --Dave A 11:55, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

I forgot about Anglia railways. Actually, i'm wondering if the West London line should be moved as, as well as it covering suburban lines on Silverlink, it also has national services:


 * Southern from Watford to Brighton
 * Virgin from NW England to Brighton (okay, only once or twice a day)

Simply south 12:04, 17 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think it really belongs in the Intercity section, if that's what you mean - the Southern services definitely fall into the "commuter rail" category, as they are strictly within the former Network Southeast area and are only . We wouldn't consider services from London to either Watford or Brighton as true Intercity services (I know that West Coast services stop at Watford, but they always continue to a much more distant destination) - they are only 25km and 80km from London respectively. --Dave A 12:35, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

=Quality of service= One would want to avoid POV stuff in encyclopedias. However, it is a fact daily observed by those of us who have been using the underground for literally decades that it is unreliable and over-stretched. Trains do not run at the same time every day. While Tfl would deny this (in the same way as it seems oblivious to the inconvenience caused by frequent closures of lines for what it calls improvements but which are actually principally maintenance), it is an observable fact. The tube is a system in crisis, with highly-paid staff delivering poor service to passengers who are crammed into trains in conditions which would be condemned as inhuman in other circumstances. There is no sign of significant new lines or an increase to current capacity. The congestion-charge drives more people on to public transport; bus-services are sporadic. Fares rise as service-quality declines. There are no refunds to season-ticket holders to compensate for the closures for maintenance. Staff show a contemptuous attitude to customers through their loudspeaker announcements. I must emphasise that this is not POV but observable fact. It is important to ignore Tfl attempts to make things seem better than they are (which are POV). Might fellow-authors advise on how this may be covered encyclopedically. Many other entries have sections on criticism of ....


 * Criticism must be referenced from encyclopedic external sources. It can't just be Wikipedians having a rant. Try looking up analysis and criticism of TfL's performance from the London Assembly. Also there is the well documented spat with Metronet, and the constant delay to Crossrail and Thameslink 2000 (neither of which are TfL's fault but certainly fall within the remit of the article). Try looking for published reports comparing TfL's service and reliability levels with comparable services in other parts of the UK and cities in other countries. These can be referenced. --DanielRigal 12:41, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 02:43, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Cycling
The comparison with other cities seems inconsistent with other wiki entries, e.g., Transport in Berlin quotes that 12% of all traffic in Berlin is done by bike versus 5% of journeys on this page. Beanary (talk) 11:48, 23 October 2010 (UTC)