Talk:Transylvanian Society of Dracula

Early comments
Transylvanian Society of Dracula is a non-profit organisation established in Romania. It has link with other sisteror-ganisations around the world in countries such as USA, Canada or Italy. Dr. Massimo Introvigne is the president of the Italian chapter of the TSD, Prof. Dr. Elizabeth Miller (recognized internationally for her expertise on Bram Stoker’s 1897 novel Dracula ) is the president of the Canadaian Chapter and so on.

Other people involved in TSD have refferences to the Transylvania Society of Dracula in their pages on Wikipedia, such as J. Gordon Melton (the American President of the The TSD) or Mark Benecke.

I do not consider that TSD page should be deleted. TSD is a legitim oragnisation and widely known in it's field. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deepbluero (talk • contribs)
 * Please bring the page inline with WP:MoS, WP:V, WP:RS, WP:N. Remove all unsourced content, clean the tone up so it does not sound like an ad, and present the topic in a neutral manner. Simply because individuals within it *may* be notable does not make the organization notable , and even if it was this article would have serious problems on other grounds. -- Logical Premise Ergo? 18:29, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Article easily fits within the Wikipedia category "fandom" []. A LexisNexis Academic search, utilizing the name of the organization, returns 54 articles centred on the group in major newspapers in North America and western Europe since the mid 1990's. I encountered one claim that stated that it is the largest academically based organization in the world dedicated to the study of "vampire lore". Current references in the article are not demonstrative of the range of citations available in support of the group's notability.Deconstructhis (talk) 18:41, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * As I said in the AfD discussion. Unless you have those sources available and can show them it's hard to asses them. I'm not seeing them. Merely because it fits into fandom does not mean it's given a pass from the basic article requirements. You are new to WP and this is probably a somewhat confusing issue for you -- to you, it's clearly a notable topic and obviously belongs here. And maybe it does! But we do need solid, reliable proof of that. The discussion will run for five days -- will it be possible, in that time span, to incorporate some of these sources you say you found into the article so that it can assert it's notability based on independant coverage ABOUT the TSD? Mind you -- a mention of the TSD in an article is not enough, you need an article ABOUT the TSD. Hell, even one and I'd happily reverse my vote as long as it was in mainstream media. -- Logical Premise Ergo? 18:48, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
 * My vote at the AfD has changed, the NYT is notable enough for me. :) You've still got a lot of work to do on the article, let me know if you need any help. -- Logical Premise Ergo? 22:32, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Removed sections
These sections did not seem to have the organisation as their subject and have been moved here: {{hidden|Click "show" to view|

The Genesis of Dracula
In 1986, the 89 pages of Bram Stoker’s working notes for the novel Dracula were found at the Rosenbach Museum & Library in Philadelphia; as a result, many clichés and preconceived ideas regarding the genesis of “Dracula” were disproven, and scores of books need to be re-written.

Stoker had read the many vampire stories written before him (those of Charles Maturin, Lord Byron, John Polidori, Sheridan LeFanu, etc) and decided to write one himself. He added to the stories Irish folklore, nightmares, imagination and Victorian frustrations; the result was a manuscript entitled “The Undead”, set in Styria (Austria, and a Count named “Count  Wampyr”. At a later stage Stoker read English Consul in Bucharest William Wilkinson’s account of a Wallachian prince whose name, in translation, meant “devil”:  Dracula.  Stoker was unaware of the prince’s first name – Vlad – or of his nickname – the Impaler. So the novelist moved the story to Transylvania, changed the prince’s identity (from a Wallachian into a Szeckler, to be able to make him a follower of Attila the Hun – the worst man known to the Europeans), and changed the title to Dracula – or The Undead.

Using detailed British “Ordnance Maps”, Stoker set the castle of the vampire-count in North-East Transylvania, in the Borgo Pass, though the author had never visited Transylvania. In l983, fictional setting became a reality when a castle-hotel appeared in the majestic wilderness of the Borgo Pass, right where Stoker had described.

The elusive vampire: several definitions
Folklore: “The vampire is a necessary folkloric category” stated Prof. Dr. Silviu Angelescu. Before police was invented, someone had to watch over the observance of the community laws (the ones ensuring the survival of the individual, therefore of the community), so these malefic spirits were imagined. The vampire has a contract with the humanity, that of a guardian spirit at the border between Good and Evil. As long as one obeys the laws, no danger. But if one breaks them, or doesn’t know them (ignorance was no excuse), then the vampire strikes.

Religion: Christianity did not want to share the control of the community with the old, “pagan” guardians, and devised the devil. Like the folkloric vampire, the devil cannot touch a righteous person. Only the sinners (breakers of laws) are taken to hell.

Occident: having forgotten the folkloric roots, the origin of the vampire, too many occidental researchers turn to explanations like rare blood diseases, rabies, outer space and other such blind alleys.

Anthropology: some scholars trace the origin of the vampire myth to the cannibalistic stage in the evolution of mankind.

Socio-psychology: the vampire is looked upon as a corrupted metaphor for the superman, also as a symbol of rebellious affirmation (result of leveling tendencies of an indifferent, or alienating society). The vampire evolves with the permissiveness of the society.

Psychology: the vampire is a restraining archetype of fear (therefore of protection).

Dr. Massimo Introvigne (director of The Centre for the Study of New Religions, Torino; president of the Italian chapter of the TSD) : “People are not only interested in God and Good; they are also interested in Evil and the Devil. But the devil is far away, abstract. The vampire is half human, half devil, therefore closer to us. This is why the vampire is the modern, even the post-modern devil, and I predict it will be with us for a long time”

T.S.D: it is obvious that we are dealing with a very personal, intimate concern and obsession of ours, a taboo under desacralization, something we are curious to know yet are reluctant to. (Asked whether she believed in phantoms, Madame du Deffand said: “No, but I’m afraid of them”). There is no place to hide from an archetype of fear – usually dormant – no matter how brave or educated.

The historical Prince Vlad the III-rd Dracula, the Impaler
Prince Vlad the II-nd of Wallachia (also know as Vlad II Dracul) (c. 1390 – December 1447), his father, became a member of the Order of the Dragon at Nuremberg, in 1431. His frequent employment of the insignia of the Order (a dragon and a cross) on flags, seals, coins – brought him the nickname “Dracul” (dragon = devil = dracul). His son, Vlad the III-rd (1431 – December 1476)(also known as Vlad III the Impaler), born in 1431, turned the nickname into a name: Vlad Draculea (in Latin: Dracula). Prince Vlad Dracula had two Herculean tasks: to turn his Wallachia (southern Romania) from an unruly, crime-riddled country, into a safe, manageable place for commerce and living – applying Tolerance Zero (his stunning success, in only 7 years of reign, turned his rule into a model for other unruly countries of the time – like Russia, Italy). The second Herculean task was to free Wallachia from Ottoman political dominance. In the winter of 1461/62, Vlad and his army crossed the Danube on ice and destroyed Ottoman attack-basis in now-a-days Bulgaria (then, a Turkish province). In the summer of 1462, sultan Mehmet the II-nd, conqueror of  Constantinopole (1453) invaded Wallachia, suffered several defeats and retreated – leaving Vlad’s younger brother, and rival, Radu, behind – to win Vlad’s generals and boyars on his side. Radu succeeded, promising a decent peace with the Ottoman Empire (Vlad wanted to continue the fight).

Besieged in the fortress of Poienari (also known as Poenari Castle), Vlad was saved by the villagers of near-by Aref, helped to cross the Carpathians into Transylvania (only to be made a princely prisoner by Mathias Corvinus, king of Hungary – who was supposed to aid Vlad in battling the Sultan). After years of house arrest in Buda, Vlad married a cousin of the king, participated in battles against the Turks in Serbia and returned on the throne of Wallachiain November 1476 – for two months only: he was killed in battle, in obscure circumstances, his head taken to Constantinople. The whereabouts of his grave are a mystery; he may have been buried in one of his own two churches: Targsor or Comana.

How about impalement? The TSD symposium in 2001 revealed that Vlad learnt of the impalements from the German merchants living in Transylvania (impalement was a common punishment in the Germanic world). Vlad used this fierce torture to discourage both domestic crime and foreign aggression – a means of psychological warfare.

The society tours mention Vlad Dracula because of the confusion of names – speculated by ignorant or commercially-minded writers, for whom historical and supernatural categories are interchangeable. }} Perhaps this material might be better presented in another article? the skomorokh 18:12, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I didn't know that this page existed, actually. I'll try to cobble together a wikipedia appropriate version of what's going on with the org (I'm a member), and then we can see if the information should remain here or go somewhere else. Strangely enough the TSD is the only org doing serious work on the topic, and the journal does meet normal academic peer review quality standards, so it should be noted on wikipedia... it just doesn't really appear as such from this page. --Jasonnolan (talk) 16:27, 22 November 2008 (UTC)