Talk:Traton

lemma
Gmbh should not be part of the lemma Norschweden (talk) 01:50, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 29 March 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. TonyBallioni (talk) 00:12, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Volkswagen Truck & Bus GmbH → Volkswagen Truck & Bus – GmbH shouldn't be part of the lemma Norschweden (talk) 22:33, 29 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Inclined to agree per Naming conventions (companies). A search for intitle:GmbH shows many other pages that include the suffix in the article title and might be candidates for renaming. Dekimasu よ! 19:35, 4 April 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Proposing article update
Dear all,

I would like to suggest to update the article as the figures are largely outdated (2015), some information wrong and some missing as described in detail below. Please note that I have a financial conflict of interest as I am being paid by TRATON SE. Therefore, I will not make any edits myself but hope that uninvolved editors could review my suggestions and make changes if they find them appropriate.

You can find my suggestion in my user space User:Conandcon/TRATON_SE. Here is also a  so that you can see my suggested changes vs. the current article.

Detailled description of proposed updates

Introduction:
 * First sentence: I would like to suggest to add TRATON's RIO brand to complete the list of brands. The brand was introduced in 2016 and is already now shortly described in the article under "Brands". (source Automotive World). I do not suggest to delete content here.
 * Second sentence: I would like to suggest to update sales and change from 2015 to 2018 numbers. (180,000 --> 233,000 sold vehicles) (source AFP at France24)
 * Fourth sentence (starting "As of December"): Update employee numbers from 2015 to 2018 and name. (76,000 --> 81,000 employees) (source Traton website facts & figures)

History:
 * 6th paragraph: I would like to suggest to delete the latter part of the sentence as commercial vehicles brand organizationally and operationally reorganized as of 1 January 2019. Delete: "...AG in legal terms, but was designated a partner of the new commercial vehicle group from an organizational and operational point of view. "
 * Explanation of issue: See Volkswagen annual report 2018 page 161: “As part  of  the  changes  in  the  management  structure  of  the  Volkswagen   Group,   the   Volkswagen   Commercial   Vehicles   brand  will  be  allocated  to  the  Passenger  Cars  segment  from  January  1,  2019  and  the  segment  will  be  renamed  Passenger  Cars   and   Light   Commercial   Vehicles.   Consequently,   the   Passenger  Cars  Business  Area  will  then  include  the  Volks-wagen  Commercial  Vehicles  brand  in  the  financial  reporting.  The  Commercial  Vehicles  segment  will  continue  to  comprise  the  Commercial  Vehicles  Business  Area,  but  from  January  1,  2019,   will   exclude   the   Volkswagen   Commercial   Vehicles   brand. The Automotive Division will remain unchanged.”)


 * At the end of the history section: Suggestion to add (no deletion) transformation into SE (including source) following logic of description of earlier transformation into AG and name change. (source German daily)
 * Below a possible addition of transformation into SE: Suggestion to add (no deletion) information regarding stock listing in Frankfurt and Stockholm as a major milestone in the company's history. (source Bloomberg)

Corporate Structure:
 * Last sentence: Here I would like to suggest to delete the last sentence (starting "The Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles brand"...). This information is wrong as commercial vehicles brand is not considered associate partner after reorganization as of 1 January 2019. (Please see same source as first bullet point/first suggestion for history section)

Brands:
 * MAN Truck & Bus: Here I would like to suggest to update the numbers at the end (2015 --> 2018) and change the tense of the sentence before so that it fits to 2019. source MAN SE annual report 2018 (pdf; pp. 39-40))
 * Scania: Suggestion to delete old, 2015 figures and replace them with 2018 figures as source was updated. (same source as before; Scania website has been updated)
 * Volkswagen Caminhões e Ônibus: Suggestion to delete old, 2015 figures and add total vehicle sales of MAN Latin America. In addition, suggestion to delete numbers for sales of trucks and buses as they are not publicly available for MAN Latin America. New source: MAN SE Annual Report 2018 (pdf; p. 41)
 * RIO: Suggestion to replace old, no longer existing company name (Volkswagen Truck & Bus) with new name (TRATON) including new source

In addition to these suggested changes, I checked the current sources and either formatted them now including a url or used a new, more reliable, independent source, e.g. where a press release was used before.

I am looking forward to feedback. Please let me know if you have any questions or if I should do something different.

,, wondering if you would be interested to look at this request, since you have made edits to this article before.

I greatly appreciate everybodys time and help with this! Thanks in advance, Conandcon (talk) 15:59, 28 November 2019 (UTC)


 * , sure, I'll check your proposals, not right now as I'm a little busy, but ASAP. Regards. --Urbanoc (talk) 19:21, 28 November 2019 (UTC)


 * I implemented many of your suggestions, but, after closer examination of the article, I toned down many of the PR stuff I found. I don't know who added it, but it was too much. The nonsensical PR wording started from the lead section: "The Group aims to realign the transport system – with its products, its services, and as a partner to its customers" (?).


 * I also removed some colourful wording, making sentences more sticking to facts (removed WP:SOLUTIONS, marketing babble, and so on). I removed some paragraphs coming from the company PR that didn't bring any real information and could be considered close paraphrasing (WP:COPYVIO). I didn't include RIO together with the vehicle marques as it isn't really that. Regards. --Urbanoc (talk) 00:30, 29 November 2019 (UTC)


 * , Thank you very much, this is greatly appreciated! Also, not sure who added the "PR stuff". After your changes and the further changes by, might it make sense to remove the maintenance template and also close this edit request? Also , may I ask why you deleted the information about the management? Traton's set-up in a matrix organization with members from the brands in the board is not a usual set-up of a company and might therefore be of interest to readers. Just thought I'd ask. Thanks again and best regards, Conandcon (talk) 12:21, 29 November 2019 (UTC)


 * In my opinion sure, the cleanup templates can be removed, as the problems cited are no more, at least not article-wide (note that someone can disagree with me and re-add them, as Wikipedia is a policy and consensus-based project). Closing request. --Urbanoc (talk) 12:46, 29 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you again very much! Let me know if you have any questions re Traton in the future. I will be happy to help if I can. Best, Conandcon (talk) 12:54, 29 November 2019 (UTC)


 * , I removed the management section because it was written in a promotional way (e.g. "Brands coordinated in an optimum way" is clearly not neutral language) and because the list of names was to a primary source with no evidence that any of those people are notable. That is exactly the kind of information that belongs on a company website, not in an encyclopedia. Thanks, Melcous (talk) 23:45, 29 November 2019 (UTC)


 * and why do you say that to me? I didn't question your changes. --Urbanoc (talk) 02:06, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I misread the comment above which was directed to you and then mentioned me. My comment is a response to 's question above about why I removed the section about management. Cheers Melcous (talk) 04:11, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * , Thanks for getting back to me on this and helping improve the article! Now I have a better understanding on why you removed the management section. Didn't want to argue either - reads good now. Wish you all the best, Conandcon (talk) 08:03, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * , oh, I see, thanks for clarifying that. I didn't indent the conversation properly (I tend to do it badly), so I admit it looks messy! Thanks all for helping with the article!. --Urbanoc (talk) 12:17, 30 November 2019 (UTC)
 * All good, it's not hard for it to get messy! Cheers, Melcous (talk) 12:19, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

Proposing update of company figures
Dear all,

I would like to suggest to update the numbers after the annual report for 2019 has been published 23 March. Please note that I have a financial conflict of interest as I am being paid by TRATON SE. Therefore, I will not make any edits myself but hope that uninvolved editors could review my suggestions and make changes if they find them appropriate.

Suggested changes to the Introduction section:

1. Please remove the third sentence of the first paragraph of the introduction section:

"In 2018, the Group sold around 233,000 vehicles."

2. Please add the following as the third sentence of the introduction section:

"In 2019, the Group sold around 242,000 vehicles."

3. Using as the reference:

Page 4, Traton Group Annual Report 2019:

4. Reason for change being made:

2019 figures are the most recent

1. Please remove the last sentence of the first paragraph of the introduction section:

"As of December 31, 2018, Traton employed around 81,000 people in its commercial vehicle brands."

2. Please add the following as the third sentence of the introduction section:

"As of December 31, 2019, Traton employed around 83,000 people in its commercial vehicle brands."

3. Using as the reference:

Page 4, Traton Group Annual Report 2019:

4. Reason for change being made:

2019 figures are the most recent

Suggested changes to the info box:

1. Please remove the current revenue in the info box:

"Revenue Increase €25.927 billion (2018)"

2. Please add the 2019 revenue to the info box:

"Revenue Increase €26.901 billion (2019)"

3. Using as the reference:

Page 4, Traton Group Annual Report 2019:

4. Reason for change being made:

2019 figures are the most recent

1. Please remove the current operating income in the info box:

"Operating income Increase €1.513 billion (2018)"

2. Please add the 2019 operating income to the info box:

"Operating income Increase €1.884 billion (2019)"

3. Using as the reference:

Page 4, Traton Group Annual Report 2019:

4. Reason for change being made:

2019 figures are the most recent

1. Please remove the current number of employees in the info box:

"Number of employees 82,983 (Third-quarter 2019)"

2. Please add number of employees as of December 31, 2019 to the info box:

"Number of employees 83,000 (December 31, 2019)"

3. Using as the reference:

Page 4, Traton Group Annual Report 2019:

4. Reason for change being made:

2019 figures are the most recent

Suggested changes to the Brands section:

1. Please remove the third sentence of the MAN Truck & Bus subsection:

"In 2018, MAN sold 102,556 vehicles, including 95,352 trucks and 7,204 buses."

2. Please add the following as the third sentence of the MAN Truck & Bus subsection:

"In 2019, MAN sold 104,887 vehicles, including 97,524 trucks and 7,363 buses."

3. Using as the reference:

Page 97, Traton Group Annual Report 2019:

4. Reason for change being made:

2019 figures are the most recent

1. Please remove the last sentence of the MAN Truck & Bus subsection:

"In 2018, sales revenue of the MAN Truck & Bus operating unit was 10.8 billion euros."

2. Please add the following as the last sentence of the MAN Truck & Bus subsection:

"In 2019, sales revenue of the MAN Truck & Bus operating unit was 11.088 billion euros."

3. Using as the reference:

Page 97, Traton Group Annual Report 2019:

4. Reason for change being made:

2019 figures are the most recent

1. Please remove the last sentence of the Scania subsection:

"In 2018, sales revenue of the MAN Truck & Bus operating unit was 10.8 billion euros."

2. Please add the following as the last sentence of the Scania subsection:

"In 2019, the brand sold 99,457 vehicles – 91,680 trucks and 7,777 buses."

3. Using as the reference:

Page 96, Traton Group Annual Report 2019:

4. Reason for change being made:

2019 figures are the most recent

1. Please remove the last sentence of the Volkswagen Caminhões e Ônibus subsection:

"In 2018, MAN Latin America sold a total of 36,362 vehicles."

2. Please add the following as the last sentence of the Scania subsection:

"In 2018, MAN Latin America sold a total of 41,891 vehicles."

3. Using as the reference:

Page 98, Traton Group Annual Report 2019:

4. Reason for change being made:

2019 figures are the most recent

Would you be willing to review my suggestions again? They are really just an update of current figures. Looking forward to your feedback. Thank you very much in advance!

Best, Conandcon (talk) 10:14, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'll take a look. At first glance, the changes seem reasonable. --Urbanoc (talk) 20:36, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅. I also added the net income, assets and equity to the infobox, to make it align with similar articles. Tell me if I made a mistake. Regards. --Urbanoc (talk) 21:40, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
 * , great, thank you! Net income, assets and equity look correct to me. I double check with my client though. If we misinterpreted something, I will let you know. Otherwise, thanks again for your help! Wish you all the best. Conandcon (talk) 08:47, 13 April 2020 (UTC)

Proposing update of company figures 2020
Dear all,

I would like to suggest to update the numbers after the annual report for 2020 has been published 10 March - just like last year (see above). Please note that I have a financial conflict of interest as I am being paid by TRATON SE. Therefore, I will not make any edits myself but hope that uninvolved editors could review my suggestions and make changes if they find them appropriate.

Suggested changes to the Introduction section:

1. Please remove the third sentence of the first paragraph of the introduction section:

"In 2019, the Group sold around 242,000 vehicles."

2. Please add the following as the third sentence of the introduction section:

"In 2020, the Group sold around 190,200 vehicles."

3. Using as the reference:

Page 20, Traton Group Annual Report 2020:

4. Reason for change being made:

2020 figures are the most recent

1. Please remove the last sentence of the first paragraph of the introduction section:

"As of December 31, 2019, Traton employed around 83,000 people in its commercial vehicle brands"

2. Please add the following as the third sentence of the introduction section:

"As of December 31, 2020, Traton employed around 82,600 people in its commercial vehicle brands"

3. Using as the reference:

Page 20, Traton Group Annual Report 2020:

4. Reason for change being made:

2020 figures are the most recent

Suggested changes to the info box:

1. Please remove the current revenue in the info box:

"€26.901 billion (2019))"

2. Please add the 2020 revenue to the info box:

"Revenue Increase €22.58 billion (2020)"

3. Using as the reference:

Page 20, Traton Group Annual Report 2020:

4. Reason for change being made:

2020 figures are the most recent

1. Please remove the current operating income in the info box:

"€1.884 billion (2019)"

2. Please add the 2020 operating income to the info box:

"€81 million (2020)"

3. Using as the reference:

Page 20, Traton Group Annual Report 2020:

4. Reason for change being made:

2020 figures are the most recent

1. Please remove the current net income in the info box:

"€1.561 billion (2019)"

2. Please add the 2020 net income to the info box:

"€-124 million (2020)"

3. Using as the reference:

Page 44, Traton Group Annual Report 2020:

4. Reason for change being made:

2020 figures are the most recent

1. Please remove the current total assets in the info box:

"€45.183 billion (2019)"

2. Please add the 2020 total assets to the info box:

"€42.767 billion (2020)"

3. Using as the reference:

Page 50, Traton Group Annual Report 2020:

4. Reason for change being made:

2020 figures are the most recent

1. Please remove the current total equity in the info box:

"€14.134 billion (2019)"

2. Please add the 2020 total equity to the info box:

"€13.169 billion (2020)"

3. Using as the reference:

Page 50, Traton Group Annual Report 2020:

4. Reason for change being made:

2020 figures are the most recent

1. Please remove the current number of employees in the info box:

"83,000 (December 31, 2019)"

2. Please add number of employees as of December 31, 2020 to the info box:

"Number of employees 82,600 (December 31, 2020)"

3. Using as the reference:

Page 20, Traton Group Annual Report 2020:

4. Reason for change being made:

2020 figures are the most recent

Suggested changes to the Brands section:

1. Please remove the third sentence of the MAN Truck & Bus subsection:

"In 2019, MAN sold 104,887 vehicles, including 97,524 trucks and 7,363 buses."

2. Please add the following as the third sentence of the MAN Truck & Bus subsection:

" In 2020, MAN sold 81,673 vehicles, including 76,333 trucks and 5,340 buses."

3. Using as the reference:

Page 109, Traton Group Annual Report 2020:

4. Reason for change being made:

2020 figures are the most recent

1. Please remove the last sentence of the MAN Truck & Bus subsection:

"In 2019, sales revenue of the MAN Truck & Bus operating unit was 11.088 billion euros."

2. Please add the following as the last sentence of the MAN Truck & Bus subsection:

"In 2020, sales revenue of the MAN Truck & Bus operating unit was 9.659 billion euros."

3. Using as the reference:

Page 109, Traton Group Annual Report 2020:

4. Reason for change being made:

2020 figures are the most recent

1. Please remove the last sentence of the Scania subsection:

"In 2019, the brand sold 99,457 vehicles – 91,680 trucks and 7,777 buses."

2. Please add the following as the last sentence of the Scania subsection:

"In 2020, the brand sold 72,085 vehicles – 66,899 trucks and 5,186 buses."

3. Using as the reference:

Page 108, Traton Group Annual Report 2020:

4. Reason for change being made:

2020 figures are the most recent

1. Please remove the last sentence of the Volkswagen Caminhões e Ônibus subsection:

"In 2019, MAN Latin America sold a total of 41,891 vehicles."

2. Please add the following as the last sentence of the Scania subsection:

"In 2020, MAN Latin America sold a total of 36,974 vehicles."

3. Using as the reference:

Page 110, Traton Group Annual Report 2020:

4. Reason for change being made:

2020 figures are the most recent

Would you be willing to review my suggestions again? They are - just like last year - really just an update of current figures. Looking forward to your feedback. Thank you very much in advance!

Best, Conandcon (talk) 20:15, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
 * sure, no problem. I'll take a look ASAP. If someone can do it before I do, he/she may proceed. Regards. --Urbanoc (talk) 20:41, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅. Tell me if I messed up something and/or you have questions. None of your edit suggestions seemed controversial at all, so I tried to implement all of them. The fact you always take the work to neatly present your requests makes things easier, so it took me just a few minutes to complete the edits. Regards. --Urbanoc (talk) 01:24, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Looks good. Greatly appreciate your quick response. Thank you very much! Best, Conandcon (talk) 19:00, 24 March 2021 (UTC)