Talk:Travis King

King's allegiance
@2600:4040:A68E:9B00:5D3F:7C33:DB6E:5C52 added North Korea as a second allegiance for King, which I reverted, and then they reinstated in as opposed to discussing it per WP:BRD.

So I guess I'm gonna start a discussion so this doesn't become an edit war. In my opinion, it is not in any way clear that King entered North Korea with the intent of "joining" them or pledging his allegiance to them in any way.

I'm not gonna say that we know why he escaped, but I think it is fair to say that the current working hypothesis as reported by reliable sources is that he entered North Korea to avoid punishment by the Army. Even if you don't subscribe to that, there is no way to support the idea that he crossed the MDL with the intent to align himself with the DPRK with reliable sources.

As a side note, some other notable deserters to North Korea like Charles Robert Jenkins also do not have the DPRK listed as a second allegiance. – Recoil16 (talk) 21:34, 22 July 2023 (UTC)


 * WP:BLP There is no sourced evidence of why he went over there, much less where his allegiance is. We don't even know that he is physically in North Korea at this time. We also don't even know if he is alive. A lot of conflicting accounts and theories are out there, but none of it is certain. We don't know if he got nabbed for illegally crossing the border, or if the entire incident was planned in advance. We don't even really know if he did it to escape from the US Army. Until we get official conformation from government sources, we really should not assume anything. — Maile  (talk) 23:06, 22 July 2023 (UTC
 * I've reverted the IPs revert. We have to adhere to Wikipedia's BLP standards. — Maile  (talk) 23:11, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you. – Recoil16 (talk) 23:18, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I support removing it.--Jack Upland (talk) 03:38, 23 July 2023 (UTC)

Race
Is King the first black American to defect to Korea? If so, then it should be stated in the article as an achievement of historical significance. Currently, his race is listed as a category only. 1.127.104.36 (talk) 16:28, 23 July 2023 (UTC)


 * No indication this was about race. Unless he has military secrets or the like to offer North Korea, he is of no value to them. Desertion is not an "achievement", and is subject to Courts-martial. Given what happened to Otto Warmbier, King's future in North Korea is uncertain. — Maile  (talk) 16:50, 23 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't see the relevance of Warmier.--Jack Upland (talk) 02:38, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Who gives a rat's ass what skin color or significance that holds. He's a traitor. That's the point! 74.88.112.61 (talk) 21:15, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Date format for American military
Please see WP:MILDATE. The Ameican military uses Day, Month, Year format. — Maile (talk) 14:11, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

Age
The references claim that he was born in 1999 or 2000 and graduated high school in 2020. That obviously cannot be the case, as it would mean that he graduated high school at age 19, 20, or 21. While under some rare circumstances it is possible to graduate high school at age 19, there is no way he would have graduated high school at age 20 or 21. Something doesn't seem right. Where is Matt? (talk) 13:21, 26 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes. Something's wrong.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:32, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I agree that there may be cause for further inquiry, but if someone had significant academic struggles, family issues, or a combination of these and/or other delays could result in a significantly delayed high school graduation.
 * Maximilian775 (talk) 16:29, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The usual process for such a scenario is an equivalency degree, not a high school diploma. Where is Matt? (talk) 04:42, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
 * The only websites that state his age that I can find, are Wikipedia, knock off Wikipedia's, websites that cite Wikipedia, or websites that should not be used as sources. I am deleting his stated birth information from the article accordingly as this is a noted issue related to the quality of this page. ₪Rick n Asia₪ 05:46, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

Traitor
When will someone add that to the Wiki page. He's a traitor. 74.88.112.61 (talk) 21:16, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
 * When a source calls him a traitor, I guess.--Jack Upland (talk) 01:19, 9 September 2023 (UTC)


 * Not a traitor. He did not commit treason, which can only exist as an act of war. We currently have diplomatic relations with North Korea, not a state of war.
 * US Constitution definition of treason: as a specific act of war: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."
 * Reading this article on him, it looks more like he exhibited hostile aggression towards authority figures and civilians alike. But treason was not committed, because we are not at war. — Maile  (talk) 19:58, 29 September 2023 (UTC)
 * You are correct about the United States and North Korea not being at war, but there are no diplomatic relations. All Western diplomatic matters are carried out by Sweden, as an intermediary. 200.88.239.240 (talk) 20:33, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * See also Protecting power – Recoil16 (talk) 20:43, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks to both of you. — Maile (talk) 20:51, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

Gordon Black
Read news on Gordon Black today (https://www.reuters.com/world/us-soldier-detained-russia-travelled-through-china-without-clearance-army-2024-05-07) and the article mentions not only was Gordon "assigned to Camp Humphreys in South Korea" but then later mentions Travis King. Checked and didn't see a page for Gordon (yet?) but if (when) one gets made, it would be good to include each other, at least under the "See also" section. ₪Rick n Asia₪ 02:10, 8 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Different cases.--Jack Upland (talk) 02:51, 9 May 2024 (UTC)

where is he now?
what happened to him?? 32.219.217.173 (talk) 15:23, 1 July 2024 (UTC)