Talk:Tregrug Castle

Images
There are a few images at geograph.org e.g. here, which might be uploaded to Commons. There are also a few at flickr.com, copyright permitting. Martinevans123 (talk) 07:50, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Pronunciation
I'd suggest that the Welsh pronunciation is closer to. Not sure why Tregruk is given as the English phonetic form. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:25, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Apparently "Tregruk" was the form used by Time Team, as "used in the CPMI of 1307".. (Anyone know what that is or was??) Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:06, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Well, Edward II of England came to throne in 1307, so maybe it's something to do with him. Some kind of manorial index? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:43, 17 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I see that the date appears a few times in this source, which is the official 2009 "Archaeological Evaluation and Assessment of Results" by Wessex Archaeology. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:10, 17 August 2021 (UTC)

Update
Have attempted to add some cites drawn from a range of sources. Have also edited the text. A few issues: Hope the edits meet with general approval, but appreciate they may not. In which case, we can of course discuss here and revise as per consensus. KJP1 (talk) 11:19, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I have swapped the YouTube video for the Wessex Archaeology report. This may not find favour! However, the link didn’t work for me - blocked on copyright grounds - and although an alternative exists, YouTube is not favoured as a source.
 * The YouTube link contained a range of citations to matters that I could not locate in the Wessex report. I’ve removed most of them.
 * The long footnote on “Pleasance” is of some concern. First, it’s uncited. Second, it may contain some original research, e.g. ‘it could serve as what one could call “landscape propaganda”’. If it’s to stay, I do think it needs a source. Alternatively, could we replace “pleasance” with “sumptuous hunting lodge”, a term used by a couple of the sources? As an aside, I couldn’t see the term “pleasance” in the Wessex report. Is is a term Tony Robinson uses in the actual programme?
 * Great work KJP. Yes, the Channel 4 henchmen (or henchpeople anyway) have obviously been out to protect their copyright, as the YT video no longer works for me either. Wish I'd watched it all now! Martinevans123 (talk) 11:27, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Oddly, your second link worked for me. Ignoring the multiple misspellings of “Tregrug” in the subtitles, it does explain where “pleasance” comes from. It’s discussed at 43:00. Personally, I would prefer to use something like “hunting lodge”, which the published sources such as Kenyon use, but we can see what others think. KJP1 (talk) 13:01, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * As a YT-addict, I'd obviously prefer to just present the royal two fingers to Ms Mahon, switch to that one and put it in External links. But I'll have you know that editors have got blocked indefinitely for adding possibly copyvio videos. So I can't risk that! Martinevans123 (talk) 13:09, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * And yes, the avenue of Scots Pine down to the Usk is very visible on Google Earth, as it was when I used to walk along the river there. Absolutely fine if you want to shift it out of the footnote into the main body. What we should probably really have is two/three sections: History, Description and a Time Team part. KJP1 (talk) 13:05, 19 August 2021 (UTC)


 * If there's someone in that episode introduced by name as an expert/authority in their field you can still cite their points using (including their name and the timestamp where they say it) but without any URL that possibly infringes copyright. It can still be verified by anyone who purchases the episode. Obviously this is no good if only Tony Robinson says something as he's not an expert.  Jr8825  •  Talk  13:28, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Many thanks. Excellent idea. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:33, 19 August 2021 (UTC) p.s. yes, but he likes to think he is.
 * No, he’s just the “celebrity” talking head that they feel obliged to use to front it! Lord knows why. But actually, it’s not Lord Robinson who discusses the term, it is one of the many white-bearded archaeologists, so he could probably be used. KJP1 (talk) 13:35, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm sure Tony had a very cunning plan about it. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:00, 19 August 2021 (UTC)
 * I’ve had to substantially trim the footnote on “pleasance”, which was a pity as it had useful info. But it was uncited and, I suspect, may have been original research. KJP1 (talk) 14:47, 30 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Better than it getting out of hand, like Welcome to the Pleasancedome, etc. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:58, 30 August 2021 (UTC)