Talk:Trenton, New Jersey

Climate

 * ) Is Trenton's climate really Humid Continental? The climate, to me, seems more comparable to NYC or Phi :)ladelphia, cities that are according to their articles Humid Subtropical. Cities like Portland, Maine, or Minneapolis seem like better examples of a continental climate 76.5.130.156 (talk) 17:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

More history
Anyone interested in beefing up the history section? There's not much from the 20th century. I'm not a Trenton resident, just interested in knowing more. 69.141.83.105 (talk) 00:11, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

The last paragraph in the history section seems irrelevant. Although it is sourced, an obscure arrest from seventy years ago is not important enough for this Wikipedia article.Chagallophile (talk) 16:20, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * , read the article about the Trenton Six and see whether or not the incident was notable. If you believe that an article about an obscure arrest from 70 years ago is not notable, nominate it for deletion and see what happens. Alternatively, you could try to get consensus here that the sourced material about the incident should be removed from the article. Until then, the article describes a notable and encyclopedic incident that is directly related to Trenton and the city's history and will be restored. Alansohn (talk) 16:38, 29 January 2018 (UTC)

We do not need consensus to remove one or two sentences about an obscure incident. There have been tens of thousands of arrests before, and after, 1948 and none of them are included in this article. Furthermore, the use of words like flimsy, allegedly and sham point to a bias of the original author. Was this the only trial in Trenton's history that was flawed? Was it the only case in which innocent people were found guilty? If not, it is merely an unimportant event that is not notable enough to be included here.Chagallophile (talk) 23:55, 4 June 2018 (UTC)
 * , again, read the article about the Trenton Six, which merits its own Wikipedia article and which has been the subject of multiple articles in the press as well as a book. I encourage you to create new articles for the tens of thousands of people arrested, charged with murder and later released under similar circumstances. The issues regarding the wording -- the only legitimate part of your complaints -- has been addressed and the material reinserted with additional referencing. Alansohn (talk) 01:01, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

, without belaboring this discussion on what seems to be an obvious case of WP:UNDUE, let me point out that the paragraph on the Trenton Six is twice as long as the article's reference to the Battle of Trenton. Furthermore, Wikipedia articles on Newark and Jersey City make no mention of specific trials; the article for Elizabeth mentions a bombing case from 2016; the article on Paterson mentions the far more famous trial of Rubin Carter in two sentences, only in reference to the movie and song written about it - with no information on the case itself. Chagallophile (talk) 17:43, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
 * , now that the argument against including any information about the Trenton Six has shifted from claims that this is just an obscure incident of run-of-the-mill flawed murder trials, I look forward to working with you to expand the history section of this article. Incidents of this nature are sufficiently infrequent that it is impossible to make any meaningful comparison to the scope or length of any other article, let alone in setting any sort of maximum amount of content. Alansohn (talk) 18:09, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

More info added
Had to give my props to my birthplace, so I put in some historical details and external links. This article could use more about the city's history as a manufacturing center. Also, does anyone really think the fact the New Jersey State Prison is there warrants mention? I don't, but left it to appease whomever insists it has to be included. - User:Alcarillo 22:00 23 Apr 2004 UTC


 * I removed substantial portions of the text added by 200.141.125.175 for two reasons: 1) it wasn't germane to the article about the city, 2) possible copyright violation as it was a verbatim post from http://www.handsworth.org.uk/history/. Alcarillo 18:54, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

source material for information about the Wards
Hi, I've been a big fan of Wikipedia for years, and just today created an account for myself.

My comment is more of a general question:

I live in Trenton, NJ, in the East Ward, and I was wondering about how this location received the distinction of being "arguably the worst section of the city"?

I am new to this part of town, having just moved here in September. In that time, I've seen some "interesting" stuff, but a comment like "arguably the worst section of the city" seems off-the-cuff, especially since there are no sources quoted to back it up.

I've been an on-again, off-again resident of the city (and area) for most of my adult life, so I'm pretty familiar with the different wards. I'm not necessarily disputing what the original author said about the east ward, but I'm just wondering if you can post some information to back up the "arguably the worst section of the city" claim?

We bought our East Ward house this summer because the neighborhood seemed nice, and the general area (Greenwood/Hamilton) seemed to be improving. But perhaps we were wrong?!

Thanks!


 * Arguably, it sounds like the North Ward is the worst. However, the East Ward, with its Walnut Avenue, is a close second.Lestrade 22:45, 31 August 2006 (UTC)Lestrade

To All Trenton Editors
I believe I speak for all Wiki's when I say, if you are sure about a mistake in the article, by all means fix it.

That being said... having grown up in Greater Trenton, I can attest that East Ward is indeed the worst side of town. Its the most run down, and I usually avoid driving through that section of town at night.

Besides this... I truly wonder if having information on the 'wards' is meaningful at all, especially the part about disputes arising between residents due to ward differences. It just seems like an article on Trenton, while being honest, might not necessarily delve into the criminal elements if it doesn't delve as deeply into more positive aspects of the city. - User:Famartin 05:15 UTC 30 Nov 2004

The 12th district is improperly labeled: It shouldn't say "Morris County and Morris County". That county is not in the 12th district nor, obviously, should it be repeated. That is a label problem with NJ Congress 12, which I cannot fix.


 * I do think delineating the wards is useful; it's a small city, and many residents identify with their wards. But it's not particularly helpful to label a part of town as "best" or "worst" based on your lack of willingness to drive through said part of town at night. Maybe you lived in the part of Greater Trenton that bordered the East Ward, and so you didn't get to see with regularity what was going on in say, the West Ward? Best and worst are subjective, and open to debate, depending on what we base our ideas of best and worst. I would contend that perhaps since there are more homicides in the North and West Wards, that perhaps they're "the worst." There has been an increase in the reports of assaults in the South Ward, lately, too. There is an area in the West Ward that the police supposedly don't even patrol anymore because it's too far gone. I live in the East Ward and I feel pretty safe, at any given time of the day. But I'm not the type of person to hang out on Walnut Avenue. I suspect it's the same for people in the other wards, too: for example, if you're not walking up and down Passaic Street to buy drugs, you're probably in good shape. For the average, law-abiding citizen, I think all of the wards are reasonably safe. Labeling any area as best or worst doesn't tell the whole, rich story of this city. There are colorful, fantastic establishments and landmarks in every part of this city that make each ward proud, and while it would be irresponsible to talk those places up without addressing the crime, it does just as much of a grave disservice to focus on which parts of the city one should avoid at night. -- Ottseetotsee 01:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
 * There are no "worst" wards in Trenton. The reason for this is that each ward is as bad as the others.Lestrade 02:39, 15 June 2007 (UTC)Lestrade

Redundant
The info listed under "Noted Residents" partly duplicates the info listed under "Well-known Americans" in the "Reference" section.Lestrade 22:48, 31 August 2006 (UTC)Lestrade

Original research or important information?
User:Alansohn deleted the following two sentences: "The introduction of the River LINE light rail train has made it easy and inexpensive for criminals to travel between Camden and Trenton. This has resulted in an increase in drug traffic and related crimes." This is common knowledge to residents of Trenton and is of vital concern to their well-being.Lestrade 12:39, 12 October 2006 (UTC)Lestrade
 * Is it "common knoweldge," or is it a rumor that some anti-Camden Trentonites started when they rode the RiverLine and saw some sketchy-looking people on it? The whole "transit makes our community too accessable to criminals, because they're poor and don't own cars" line is a fairly common paranoia expressed in the US. Provide a source from a newspaper article or a law enforcement agency. "Common knowledge" often transmits misconceptions, biases, and prejudices. Passdoubt | Talk 05:21, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

User:Passdoubt, I guess the only way to know is to ride the line and see for yourself. If you live in Trenton, you would want to know this information. If you live elsewhere, you could consider it to be unimportant.Lestrade 13:29, 14 October 2006 (UTC)Lestrade

Wards vs. Neighborhoods
The article incorrectly refers to the West Ward as "West Trenton." The actual West Trenton is not in Trenton, but in next-door Ewing Township. Trentonians refer to the West Ward as (drum roll...) "the West Ward."

The article also refers to the wards as "neighborhoods," which they are not. They are simply convenient rough geographical divisions of the city.

Finally, a list of manufactures includes "..., wire, rope, ..."; this may be a mistaken gloss of "wire rope", which is used to make cables. One of Trenton's claims to fame is making the cables for the Brooklyn Bridge. --George from Trenton

Another important note about wards -- the article describes Chambersburg as being in the South Ward. While a small portion of Chambersburg extends into the South Ward, the majority of it is in the East Ward. I'm on the executive board of the Chambersburg Civic Association, so I'm quite sure of this. 96.248.99.126 (talk) 22:12, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Delaware Valley versus New York (Metro areas)
Yes, I understand that officially, Trenton is part of the NYC metro area. HOWEVER, it has more transportation and communication connections with Philly/Delaware Valley... I-95, I-295 and US 1 all go SOUTHWEST toward Philly, plus its the end of the SEPTA Northeast Corridor line. Plus, most of the Philly TV newscasts have a Trenton Bureau, unlike most of the NYC TV newscasts. Not to mention the simple fact that Trenton is 30 miles from Philly and 60 miles from New York City...

So, I'm wondering why that information was removed? I'm putting it back in... Famartin 18:59, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

My understanding is that Trenton is part of the New York Consolidated Statistical Area (CSA) not its metro area. The Census Bureau itself cautions against equating the two. Not being from Trenton, I would not know how those who live there feel about such things, but I am guessing that Philadelphia has a greater pull as a market area (where people get their tv and radio signals from, where they shop, what teams they cheer etc.) New York happens just to be the area where more people commute to for work. (Metro areas to a large extent and Consolidated areas to a lesser extent primarily measure commuting patterns or the labor markets.)chazman 12:36, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd guess that born n' raised Trentonians would have more allegiance to Philadelphia while newcomers would be comprised of more North Jersey/NY expats and have more NYC allegiance. I'd be in favor of a description that explains that Trenton has been historically more linked to Philadelphia but, as the Philly area economy has become increasingly dwarfed by the NYC area economy, Trenton is more and more engulfed in NYC's sprawl and corresponding influence. That route 1 corridor between Trenton and New Brunswick was formerly rural and could be said to divide the two metros with a big dead-spot... today of course it's intensely developed suburbia for wealthy NY-bound commuters. Also maybe a note about how commuting patterns and local culture are affected by the fact that it's the state capitol. Passdoubt | Talk 04:30, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * More than eight years late to the table, but as a third-generation citizen of New Jersey with experience of life and work in both North and South Jersey, I have to specify that Trenton - like the rest of Mercer County - is most definitely in North Jersey. The Keith Line notwithstanding, South Jersey defines as Burlington County, Ocean County, and the six counties to the south thereof.

This is my first post; I hope I'm doing it right! Firstly, I live in the neighborhood of Chambersburg, and I can assure you it is in the East Ward, not the South. A very small part of "the Burg" does extend over the border into the South Ward. Secondly, as a member of the Chambersburg Civic Association, I do have an opportunity to meet with representatives of the Police Department at our monthly meetings and review crime statistics. The East Ward has low crime rates when compared with other sections of the city, so I have to contest this notion of our Ward being "the worst part of town." This is a misconception that is shared by many, though I can't imagine why, and statements like this perpetuate that view. Revelwoodie 17:44, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Welcome! I went to college at the school formerly known as Trenton State, and lived in Chambersburg after I graduated. At that time, most of it (if not all) was in the South Ward -- that was in the mid-1990s. I moved away from the area for about 10 years, and bought a house near the high school in 2004, and found out later (after my original Wikipedia post to this page) that Trenton had been redistricted, which moved most of Chambersburg into the East Ward. Glad to find someone else who will argue that the East isn't the worst. Though I am inclined, on occasion, to agree with the poster above who says they're all the worst. But only on some days!

Taylor
A long time ago, I created stub articles for many folks named John Taylor, including John Taylor (Taylor Ham), and the Taylor Opera House in Trenton. The opera house article was just given a "proposed deletion" tag and I cleaned it up and removed the tag, but I thought people interested in Trenton might have more to add to the article on the Opera House and the man who created it, to stave off future deletion attempts. Please have a look and expand them if you can -- thanks! &mdash; Catherine\talk 17:46, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Sources have been added for the Opera House and for Taylor himself. I will watch both articles for any attempts at deletion. Alansohn (talk) 06:10, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Local Media
I created a new section, "Media," and added information about the newspaper of Trenton, The Times. Would someone please add local television information if you deem it relevant? Thanks. 71.125.86.230 (talk) 22:39, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

New Jersey, Trenton
The population in 2006 is 8.7 million people that is what i figuered out on other websites this is a good website but also go on the website www.50 states.com there is every state there on the website —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.253.11.113 (talk) 23:23, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * That's impossible. Trenton is only 8 square miles and there is no way 8.7 million people could squeeze into that.  8.7 is not Trenton.  8.7 is NYC.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.99.54.103 (talk) 20:25, 13 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree that the 8.7 million figure is clearly not for Trenton itself.--Epeefleche (talk) 19:53, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

Date in first sentence
The date in the first sentence of the article seems suspect ("Trenton dates back at least to June 3, 1790, when mention was made of a constable being appointed for Trenton"). It is later than some of the other dates, and does not seem to have a ref. Nor is it reflected in the article's body. If someone has time/interest, they may want to review it. Best.--Epeefleche (talk) 15:45, 15 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I've changed it back to 1719, which was the date there before this edit. Peter E. James (talk) 20:17, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Tx much.--Epeefleche (talk) 23:17, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Trenton Commons
While the Trenton Commons experiment deserves mention in the article, I deleted the paragraph dedicated to it here. It was entirely unsourced, and written in an unencyclopedic fashion. If anyone can find reference material to cite and document it in a neutral point of view, please do so.--Chimino (talk) 12:03, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

name of stadium
Under "Sports", I'm changing the name of the stadium to Arm & Hammer Park, which is the current name. Elsquared (talk) 02:15, 8 April 2014 (UTC)

Notables
Are we now adding all the Governors of New Jersey and members of the New Jersey Senate and federal judges for the District of New Jersey United States District Court to the notables from Trenton, New Jersey. The only one I see now is Chris Christie. My guess he spends more time at fast-food restaurants than at his office in Trenton. Other than governor, he has no association with the city. It would be easier to add the categories Category:Governors of New Jersey under Category:Trenton, New Jersey than to add all the governors and all the state senate members and state and federal judges. The official governor's residence is in Princeton, New Jersey, not in Trenton. Anyone else have an opinion? --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 18:26, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Agreed, just as we don't list every President, Senator, Representative and U.S. Supreme Court Justice in Washington, D.C., and most of them actually live there. The Governor of New Jersey is not a notable in Trenton, any more than every other state elected and appointed official. Alansohn (talk) 02:38, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: The incumbent governor, who has been in office for over 5 years, repeatedly been on national and international news as governor of NJ (regarding Hurricane Sandy, etc.), and had an office in Trenton since 1999, is certainly one of "People who were born in, residents of, or otherwise closely associated with Trenton". Softlavender (talk) 02:38, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
 * No more or no less than the previous 54 governors. And of course every other state. And of course every other president of the US and every head of state for every other country, and let us not forget county officials. This is where a category is best. You can put the governors under Trenton and under Princeton. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 00:43, 4 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Agree with Richard and Alan. We aren't gonna put Barack Obama on the list of notables from DC, are we? Famartin (talk) 04:04, 2 May 2015 (UTC)


 * "DC" doesn't have a list of notables, so no, you're not going to add Obama there. But if DC did have a list of notables, you'd likely still not put Obama there.  That's because Trenton is the only state capitol on Wikipedia which invites the addition of notable people who are "closely associated with" the city.  Those three words--"closely associated with"--enable editors to add notables who were never born or lived there, but merely had a "close association" with the place.  This New Jersey invention--that close association gets you onto a place's notable list--is a brilliant invention, because now just about ANYBODY who an editor can prove a "close association" gets to stay in the article.  In its broadest sense it could include musicians and artists who have never lived or worked in a place, but in some way have had a "close association" with the place (maybe they wrote a hit song about Trenton?)  Consensus here and in other places certainly is in agreement that the governor is closely associated with the state capitol, so yes, I do plan on adding the rest of the governors to this article.  I hope you'll join me!  Thanks.  Magnolia677 (talk) 01:34, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
 * So you are disrupting Wikipedia to make a point. Now I understand. --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 02:56, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Don't accuse me of being disruptive. How many New Jersey articles have you added lately?  Magnolia677 (talk) 03:06, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Huh? What does one have to do with the other? --Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) (talk) 05:13, 4 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Magnolia, just stop. I agree with you on some things, but on this you are just totally wrong. Famartin (talk) 21:41, 4 May 2015 (UTC)


 * The Corzine edit is ridiculous and pointy and has to do with the Alansohn conflict. The article is about Trenton and that means that its contents (other than basic data) are supposed to be notable facts about Trenton, i.e. facts that make Trenton itself notable.  Notable close association means the person's association with the city brings notability to the city.  Think of Gettysburg PA, which most people have only heard of because Abraham Lincoln gave a speech there.  So we would say Lincoln's association with Gettysburg brings notability to Gettysburg.  Individual governors or the list of them does nothing for Trenton's notability: the article already says who the current Governor of New Jersey is, and that's enough.  There is a separate article List of Governors of New Jersey that has the complete list.  It doesn't need to be incorporated into the Trenton article.  50.0.136.194 (talk) 05:45, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

The "closely associated" inclusion is being too broadly interpreted and elsewhere where it is employed it has not been used for for politicians who show up to vote and go home. It would the equivalent of Sarah Vaughan as the best voice from Newark, or Thomas Edison (born in Ohio) with his close association with Menlo Park, or Ogdensburg/Sparta. As far as I know the only notable from Trenton is Antonin Scalia, our ex-governor Corzine was from Hoboken, and our current governor is from Mendham.--JackTheVicar (talk) 05:05, 11 May 2015 (UTC)


 * Perhaps you can enlighten New Jersey editors regarding the definition of "close association". In 49 other states on Wikipedia, editors follow the definition outlined in the US city guidelines, which states that notable people are "any famous or notable individuals that were born, or lived for a significant amount of time, in the city".  It doesn't mention "close association".  In my experience, New Jersey is the only place that invites the addition of people who are "closely associated".  So, please define what a close association means?  Some examples would help too.  If not, just follow the US guideline and remove that vacuous and problematic wording.  Thank you.  Magnolia677 (talk) 23:03, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

good article comments
I am NOT reviewing this article for good article status. I am also not making comprehensive comments about the nomination. However, a little hint. Look at the history and see if it is missing some notable facts. Is there any coverage about the last 100 years, 1916-2016? If not or not too much, do you think there should be? TeacherA (talk) 18:23, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Notable people
I happened to notice that this list was quite long, so I took it on myself to organize it by occupation, similar to the way other city pages do. I hope I did it correctly. If people like it, there may be a few other occupations to add, such as "religion", to try to reduce the "other" category still more. If people hate this organization, feel free to revert.

The other thing I've noticed is that places with a lot of notables sometimes have a separate "People from xxx" page, and just put a few of the most important in the city article.Peter Flass (talk) 15:46, 9 December 2020 (UTC)