Talk:Trinity College, Cambridge/Archive 1

Picture clearup
Lots of pictures have recently been added to this page and it now looks rather crowded. It might be a good idea top shift some to the category for photos of the college. contribs —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.111.135.42 (talk) 14:29, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

Questionable Alumni
I've noticed a number of alumni listed on this page (and the linked list) who were awarded latent degrees or had some other professional affiliation with the college. This should be made clear in some way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CharlieRCD (talk • contribs) 16:50, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

May Ball
The May Ball is officially titled the First and Third Trinity Boat Club May Ball, but long ago ceased belonging to the boat club. It is completely autonomous and shares only the name, flag and college. A bit pedantic perhaps. http://www.trinityball.co.uk/history.html So maybe the mention of the ball should be moved away from the boat club or at least rephraased. JTo

All Soul's
Anyone concerned that the piece about All Soul's being richer than Trinity is incorrect? I'm pretty sure Trinity is richer. Comments please. -ChariK


 * See the comment at the end of this discussion - All Souls apparently has more money per student. Bluap 09:52, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

All souls is far, far richer per student... also all their students automatically become fellows. But then again, they only accept the top handfull of students who graduated from Oxford ;)

All Souls fellows are fellows... they are not students, except for a handful. all souls has 75 fellows at all souls according to their website - "about a dozen" either recently received their postgrad degrees or are working towards post grad degrees - the latter would count as students. all souls endowment is 144 million pounds in 2003 (compared to 621 for trinity) according to their wiki entry.

I'm concerned that this page is lacking a few very important people. It seems to be almost completely a copy of http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/smb1001/trin/alumni.htm, and this list misses out all Nobel Prize Winners, Masters, MPs and Olympic Gold Medallists - precisely the people who should be included.

I don't have to add all these people myself, do I? Tim

We should have something about the double chimes of the Trinity clock (and the Great Court Run, Chariots of Fire) and the "Wedding Cake" with the blank clock face in St. John's College. But what is the real story? Bovlb 21:40, 2004 Mar 16 (UTC)

I don't know if the stuff like the double chimes should go in: WikiPedia isn't a tourist guide. If you want the real history behind folklore the chairleg held by Henry VIII on the main gate (which was swapped for a sceptre more than a hundred years ago and since been replaced by the College with a new chairleg) would be a better story than the clocks? BozMo(talk)

"more than a hundred years ago"

I always heard 1950 myself.

Super richard 22:36, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Really? I heard 1970's. --Wee Jimmy 20:37, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Actually, correct that, apparently, according to the college lit, it was over 100 years ago, and they had to replace the leg in the 1970's because it presumably wasn't too well after 70 years of East Anglian weather... --Wee Jimmy 21:41, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

About the clock and chairleg, I suspect you can add a section in the wiki on folklore about Trinity College, can't you? this way people can choose to read it.

About the alumni list, I find this list to be misleading at best, or deceiving. Many people quoted as alumni never studied at TC. There is a real difference between training students and later they become Nobel prizes or whatever, or buying Nobel Prizes and the likes. The latter means TC is a rich college, the former that they have had some success as a teaching academic institution. Yarkout 12:37, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * As the author of the webpage  from which the list used here was lifted wholesale (without permission, I might add!), I can assure you that your concerns are unfounded. To the best of my knowledge, all the alumni listed were either undergrad or grad students, and certainly all the Nobel winners were (I checked them all at source, and they were again checked by the University's Press and Alumni Office as it now forms part of their official list). If you know of a counter-example I'd love to know about it. In addition to the 31 Nobels here Trinity has had many others as visiting Professors or Honorary Fellows and I don't count any of them. Several US universities are very guilty of ramping up their Nobel counts in the ways you mention, but this simply isn't true of Cambridge, I promise you. There's a little more discussion of this at one of my other pages . Smb1001 17:38, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Junior Scholarship I've removed the statement that Junior Scholars get Great Court rooms in their 3rd year. When I was an undergraduate (1992-1995), Scholars received higher placings in the room ballot, were still unlikely to be able to choose Great Court rooms. Since then, I believe that the order of the room ballot has been changed, and scholars no longer receive preference. And this begs the question: why do we have a section about Scholarships at all? In my view the page would be better without it. Bluap 15:03, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * Scholars are still at the top of the room ballot, and indeed all the scholars in my year studying my subject have Great Court rooms at the moment. Proteus (Talk) 15:30, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)


 * I second that - all the 3rd year scholars I know are in Great Court...--Wee Jimmy 00:21, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I changed the statement that we're the richest educational institution in per student terms. All Souls in Oxford (which only accept Oxford's top 2 graduate students after a prize exam) is far richer: in Hall they eat with golden cutlery!

Although the question is moot as Princeton is far richer per student than anyone else, even us, All Souls' College has no undergraduates as such (to quote its own entry in this very site, "All Souls is an oddity among Oxford colleges in that it has no students.") All members are automatically Fellows, although some institutions call their Fellows "Students", I think, like Christ Church College, Oxford. User:Wee Jimmy 18:36, 8 Aug 2005 (UTC)

Clarification of per student endowments All Souls has no students, only Fellows. Trinity is in fact comparable to Princeton and Harvard on endowment per student terms. According to the US Chronicle of Higher Education, Princeton University (excluding Princeton Theological Seminary, which is assessed as a separate institution for whatever reason), Princeton has per student endowment of about $1.475m. Harvard has a per student endowment of $1.240m. Due to their very low student enrollment counts, Rockefeller University ($7.227m per student - postgrad students only), and Olin College of Engineering (~$2.08m per student according to the Chronicle or about $1.4m according to the college website - there are differing student enrollment counts) both in the US- these have the highest per student endowments in the US.

using the 2003 endowment and student figures used in the current wiki entry, at an exchange rate of 1.78, Trinity has a per student endowment of $1.139mm


 * it's not true that All Souls has no students. It's just that all students at All Souls automatically become fellows when they are admitted. I.E. They've got fellows studying for a degree at Oxford (someone who studies for a degree is a student, isn't it? It doesn't matter if they have the privileges of a fellow at the same time)

Mallard
I've removed some dodgy information about the Mallard. Firstly, it would be incorrect to give names. Secondly, as far as I am aware, the duck has moved at least 4 times since 1992, and it always remains within the Hall. While I can't guarantee a date, I'm sure that at least one occasion was around 1997 or so. At one period it vanished for a year or so before returning, complete with radio-controlled "quacker". Fortunately, the remote control didn't have a long enough range to operate the device. On another occasion in recent years, the duck was replaced by a yellow rubber duck. Bluap 16:38, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

It was stated that the Mallard was knocked off its perch last term - I remember the pigeons (and their feathery additions to Hall food) but I didn't hear anything about it being knocked down before I went down - is it really true? User:Wee_Jimmy 20:07, 7 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Yes, it barely missed hitting Luigi (one of the head waiters) in the head when it came crashing down. Last time I checked (a few weeks ago), it still wasn't back up. And for that matter I was told it was not actually wooden. --Grouse 21:30, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Amusing to see this. I originally put the Mallard (Sir Francis) up as an undergraduate. This was a decoy duck (not wooden) and was the mascot of the Mallards dining society; which I had stolen from the College bar as a junior member. There was also a sign attached underneath it. I was trying to work the year out but it was probably in my third year in 1985. The guy who did the ropes was up 84-86 --BozMo&#91;&#91;user_talk:BozMo&#124;talk]] 22:50, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Before I was Adam1729, I was the person who tried to correct some history about the Mallard. It started life as "Sir Francis", and the first time it was put into the rafters it had a piece of paper saying so, which was visible from the Hall. I also added the name of the first person to put it there, and the names of the first people to move it. I know - I was one of those people. This is not "dodgy information". I also tried to add the date, but I'm not completely sure about it. For some reason I don't understand, this was regarded as vandalism and removed. I would like to replace it, because the current history is not complete. I also don't understand why "it would be incorrect to give names". This is an encyclopedia - names are a major part of its content. I'm happy to add mine. If BozMo doesn't want his/her name connected with it, thats fine. I'm new to editing Wikipedia, but I'm doing my best to help. Adam1729 01:28, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

It is "dodgy information" because it is not verifiable. It would need to appear in a reliable source first. I don't know why BozMo said "it would be incorrect to give names." There are two concerns I can think of. First, the names are not notable. Second, with the sourcing provided they may violate Wikipedia's policy on material on living persons. You would be better off putting this sort of information on your own web site. Grouse 09:51, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I understand your two concerns about the names, and, whilst I disagree, I'm happy to go with the consensus on this. I do think, however, that the Mallard's original name of Sir Francis should be there (and possibly the reason for the duck's existence, which is the dining society, but this information should be added by BozMo, not by me). I agree that I can offer no citation, but there is no citation for the existing entry, either. The justification for the existing entry seems to be of the "I was there, so I know" variety, and my justification for adding the Sir Francis information is exactly the same. More so, since I was the first person to move the duck. Having said all of that, BozMo is just as aware of the history as I am, so if he's happy with the current state of the article, then I'll go with that. Adam1729 19:40, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

The "dodgy" information which I mentioned above relates to my edit here. In particular, the statement that the duck had not been moved for 10 years was false (by personal knowledge). The Sir Francis information (added in this edit) fits in with what I heard as an undergraduate (caviat: it could easily have been Adam1729 who told me this information). There is a long-standing rumour that a certain college official had moved the Mallard as an undergraduate, but this would contradict with the statement above that the Mallard was first placed in 1986. Personally, the Sir Francis / 1986 story looks right to me, which means that the rumour is false. Bluap


 * Get the alum office to do a reasonable article on the Mallard in The Fountain, and then at least we'd have an online source. Bwithh 23:29, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

Great Court Run

 * "It is a rather difficult challenge and the only people believed to have actually completed the run in time are Lord Burghley in 1927 and Sebastian Coe when he beat Steve Cram in a charity race in October 1988."

This isn't true. Someone did complete it in my matriculation year (2002). I'm sure that there will have been one or two others in the past.

Seb Coe didn't actually beat the clock (although he completed the run in less than 43 seconds), as the clock had been wound the night before and the chimes ran faster than usual (taken from college literature).Richard B 13:01, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

I've certainly seen people do it - except there's always room for debate about exactly what the rules are as regards cutting the corners.


 * Yep. I also saw an undergraduate do it without touching the grass (he was in the university athletics team: Richard Reiss I think?) in 1984. The critical thing is running and turning on cobbles not outright speed. No one could do it in the wet. --BozMo&#91;&#91;user_talk:BozMo&#124;talk]] 10:54, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

One year we caused mayhem by setting up large speakers and a tape-recorder with the effect that everyone heard the clock striking thirteen. Mhkay 14:45, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

For the anecdotage section, does anyone have an account of the banner put up across the court in 1969/70 for Prince Charles' birthday? Mhkay 14:45, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Image Layout
There's been a bit of to-ing a fro-ing between myself and Olivier about the layout of the images on this page. Personally, I feel that it is better to allow the images to float down the right-hand side of the "Related Pages" and "Alumni" sections. Olivier seems to want to force the images to be displayed on the right-hand side of the page between the "Related Links" title and the list of the links. I find that this layout does not work well for IE (no idea about other browsers). To see the layouts, compare http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trinity_College%2C_Cambridge&oldid=12031352 and http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Trinity_College%2C_Cambridge&oldid=12033664 Anyone else with a preference? Bluap 12:00, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * The floating just does not work properly with Mozilla Firefox: the pictures are literally "floating": they are displayed in the middle of the page and cover the text. With IE, honestly, while the floating version is slightly better, I do not see much difference between the 2 versions. Given the growing success of Firefox, I believe that the floating version is not acceptable. There may be other better solutions for displaying a gallery of pictures, like creating a table for instance - I know that it has been done for other articles, but I am not an expert. olivier 12:48, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)


 * As far as I can see, the mark-up is correct, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Extended_image_syntax and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Picture_tutorial Do you have this problem on other pages? If so, it sounds as if something has gone wrong with the Wiki as a whole, rather than just these pages, and you should bring it to the attention of one of the administrators Bluap 14:43, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * I don't get why so many people complain about floating images "not working" in Firefox. I use Firefox and I've never had problems with them. Maybe some people have maltweaked their CSS or something? The site's main CSS clearly defines the right-floating thumbnails to "clear:right", meaning they display underneath each other along the right edge, and the text displays as normal on the left. &mdash; Reverting. &mdash; Timwi 21:28, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * OK guys, you are stubborn geniuses: you are wrong but you won! The display is pathetic with the Firefox version that I installed 2 days ago. I will not fight for it, but be aware that many people will have a very poor impression of both the College and Wikipedia by looking at this page. Timwi might wonder why "so many people complain with floating images not working in Firefox": you know, they might be right after all. olivier 13:02, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)


 * OK, let me rephrase: I don't get why so many people complain about floating images not working, but then fail to explain what exactly "doesn't work", or make a screenshot, or give more information about their set-up, their configuration, their preferences, or any other circumstances that might in any way be constructive in actually diagnosing the issue. &mdash; Timwi 23:46, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)


 * And, from my point of view, the mark-up appears to be done correctly in this page, so it's a wiki-wide problem, not one specific to Trinity College. Bluap 11:45, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

College flag
Is it of interest that Trinity uses a royal standard (I think not the current one) and often seems to fly it when most other buildings are flying the union flag?


 * I'd say so. The website says: "Trinity's flag, flown on special occasions, has as its design the royal standard of Edward III" (i.e. "Quarterly, Azure semy of fleurs-de-lys Or and Gules three lions passant guardant in pale Or", which is a combination of the arms of France and England). Proteus (Talk) 13:25, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Chip in door at Great Gate
I don't know of this is at all relevant or wether there is current space in the article for it but if you go to the entrance by great gate you will notice that the main wooden oanel has a big chip taken out one corner. This happened at the end of the burrells ent in the early hours of the morning of 12/02/06. Two college students got in a fight with a group of youths at Gardinier's kebab house, they were followed back to the college and after getting let in through the locked gate by the porters. The youths preceeded to try and gain entry into the college and knoked through the front pannel of the door which landed on the floor and lost a chip in one corner. The panel was replaced the next day but the chip can still be seen in the bottom left corner of the panel of the door as you walk into the college through great gate.Justcop 01:27, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

War memorial
I recently visited Trinity and would be interested to know what the Latin inscription on the war memorial in the Chapel means, as I am not confident in my own translation skills. Could an ex-alumnus of the college, or perhaps a Latin prof, add this info to the discussion page? Walton monarchist89 10:27, 8 March 2006 (UTC)


 * We were there recently too. I think you'll need to be more specific. There's a large motto on the back wall of the chapel (near to Newton's statue), and several near the altar. Did you have a specific one in mind? I'm afraid that I can't remember the mottoes - but could help translate. Ian Cairns 11:04, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

I think it was the one on the back wall of the chapel. It was a large plaque commemorating WWII. I can't remember the exact wording but I know it began "Pro Muro" (which I know means "To Death"). Hopefully someone out there can remember the whole thing. Walton monarchist89 16:33, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

You could email the Dean of Chapel or one of the chaplains: http://www.trin.cam.ac.uk/index.php?pageid=54 Unless they're dont have the email habit, they will probably reply Bwithh 17:07, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

If you do, can you please post the answer here? I am curious.--Grouse 22:41, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

The Latin text is "PRO MURO ERANT NOBIS TAM IN NOCTE QUAM IN DIE" Bluap 14:35, 1 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Googling that reveals that it looks like it is from the Vulgate for 1 Samuel 25:16 where it means something like "They were a wall unto us, both by night and day" --Grouse 01:06, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

mallard wording
I have removed the "very" difficult for hall access as it is pretty straightforward getting into Hall outside mealtimes and requires only a fellows key (which many enterprising undergraduates manage to acquire). BozMo

The Fellows' Garden
It would be sensible to add a brief description of the Fellows' Garden, though with the section headed Buildings, it's not easy to know where to insert it. DFH 16:43, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

How about changing the subheading to Buildings and Grounds? Bwithh 02:30, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * That would seem reasonable. Brief descriptions of the sports fields are possibly in order as well. Bluap 12:29, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Rivalry with St John's
Every hour, the clock on Trinity College Chapel strikes double the hour, e.g. twenty four strikes at 12 o'clock. St John's College Chapel has no clock tower. Is there any truth in the rumour that it strikes first for Trinity and second for St John's ? DFH 16:53, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know whether this is true, but it is widely reported. If untrue it should still be included in the article if just to debunk it, as with some other myths that already appear in the article. --Grouse 23:15, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Without this doubling, the Great Court run would surely be impossible? DFH 16:54, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
 * The double chimes are not mentioned in the Architectural History of Cambridge University. I suspect that this legend started as part of a florid description in a poem.  Personally, I never heard the legend while I was at college, and would say that it is an urban myth. Bluap 09:07, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * This particular "legend" or whatever, is certainly the description that I heard about when I was at college. The rumour says something to do with a local bylaw saying that 3 bells cannot be within a certain radius of each other. Trinity put 2 in their tower, and the bylaw forbade St. John's from putting 1 in theirs due to the proximity. So the great court clock strikes first for Trinity in a loud tone, then second for St. John's in a much quieter tone. I'm certain that this is not going to be exactly true, but it possible that an element of truth is there, but would need investigating. To answer DFH's point, yes, few people complete it even with the doubling of the chimes so it'd be impossible with just 12 chimes (~400 yds and ~25-ish seconds is well in excess of the World Record) Richard B 18:40, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, it isn't repeated in Trevelyan's history of the college, nor in the Royal Commission on Historic Monuments report, nor in the Architectural History of the University of Cambridge. (The last of which gives details of when the bell was installed.)  If you find reference to the legend in any non-tourist literature, I'd be interested in hearing. Bluap 19:47, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Can you please add that information to the article? Even a partial debunking is useful. --Grouse 22:30, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't suppose anyone noticed that Whewell's court does in fact have a J staircase? Anon contributor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.241.36 (talk • contribs)
 * Be bold. --Grouse 08:43, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

Trinity College as largest College

 * Looked into this and it seems that while Homerton College, Cambridge has the largest student population (Trinity has the largest undergrad population but Homerton has a very large postgrad student population), once you factor in fellows (many of which are post-doc researchers) as college members (as mentioned in the article), Trinity is definitely larger than Homerton (Trinity - 160+ fellows vs. Homerton's 30-odd fellows). Incidentally, the current student numbers in the article (660 undergrad, 430 postgrad, 160 fellows) were taken from the student number projections for 05-06 in my copy of the Trinity Annual Record and I just noticed that there is a significant discrepancy with the Trinity 04-05 student number count (most recent available) in the University Reporter. The total number of students is about the same, but in the 04-05 numbers, there are about 100 more undergrads, and about 100 fewer postgrads. Wonder if there is some difference or error in the way they are counting or did Trinity make a recent decision to expand their postgrad population for 05-06 and the future at the expense of undergrad population? (though surely this move is a increase in expenditure rather than a cost-cutting!) Bwithh 16:59, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

The current article is inconsistent with the ones on Homerton and St John's as these state that they are the first and third largest respectively. This should be amended - maybe the same set of statistics (eg central university statistics) should be used to compare the colleges. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 131.111.8.98 (talk • contribs).


 * That's not true. Homerton has more students (including PGCE students). Trinity has more members (including fellows). Both pages are correct. So is the St. John's page. --Grouse 07:03, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

You might be right, but it probably ought to be clarified as they are being compared on different things (total membership vs number of students). Surely using the same measure for all colleges (student population or number of members, not a mixture of the two) would be a more meaningful way of comapring colleges? For many people the distinction between membership and student numbers may not be clear.--131.111.8.98 10:46, 9 June 2006 (UTC)


 * It is clarified. See the footnote. If you want to change the Homerton article, to state that it is not the largest college based on total number of members, go right ahead. --Grouse 10:53, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Trinity shield
Um... The official Trinity website uses the college shield image... downloaded from Wikipedia http://www.trin.cam.ac.uk/index.php?pageid=280 208.253.58.168 23:28, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Biggest college
According to wikipedia numbers Homerton College seems to be bigger.

Trinity college is the largest neither in terms of students or geography. John's occupies a greater area, and Homerton has more students.

H. C. Husband
Was H. C. Husband, the architect of Angel Court, Sir Henry Charles Husband, CBE FREng DSc BEng? See 1964-1965 in Past Presidents of the Institution of Structural Engineers DFH 13:36, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The guide to Angel Court which was published to commemorate its opening in 1960 says
 * "The complicated task of planning was placed in the hands of Messrs Husband and Co., Architects and Consulting Engineers of Sheffield and London, a firm whose wide experience includes designing the Jodrell Bank telescope and the Bridge over the River Kwai for the film of that name. The builders were Messrs Youngs of Norwich"
 * Don't forget that court includes several older buildings, including the Lecture Theatre Court (now E Angel Court). Bluap 23:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Hall
Until recently there was a portrait of the Duke of Gloucester that hung over the head of High Table. Does anyone know which Duke of Gloucester this was, who painted this, and what its significance is?

Additionally some of the windows have been stained with the coats of arms of various peers who had some association with the college. Anyone know what the story behind this is? --Grouse 08:48, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Trevelyan's history of the college mentions that both Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester and Prince William Frederick, Duke of Gloucester and Edinburgh as having been members of the college. The latter (who was the original "Silly Billy") was later the Chancellor of Cambridge University, and it is his portrait.  Trevelyan mentions two portraits: "There is a full-length portrait of him in the Lodge as a Trinity freshman (by Romney), and a Sir Joshua of him in the Hall as a boy in fancy dress".
 * As for the coats of arms, they are of people who donated money to the college. Details are given in the Royal Commission on the Historial Monuement of England (City of Cambridge, vol 2, pages 226-228). Bluap 13:38, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Maths
I have heard that Trinity is supposed to be the strongest college in Cambridge for maths. Is this worth mentioning in the article? Algebra man 20:02, 3 July 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm sure someone else will mention this - but 'hearing something' and putting it into a Wiki article as fact are two very different things. Can you back up your assertion? If so, using what reference? If you can, please go ahead _with_ the reference. Ian Cairns 12:32, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * While it is true that Trinity has the greatest number of mathematicians per year of any Cambridge college (and probably even the greatest number of mathematicians as a proportion of the college size), this means that it frequently accepts mathematics applications from the "pool" of candidates rejected from other college. When I was a student, a large proportion of mathematics students from Trinity did obtain a first, but it also had a relatively large number of thirds. Other colleges (e.g. Queens'), while having a lower number of mathematics students, had a lower proportion of thirds.  Whatever the case, I wouldn't mention it in the article without a published reference (and, even then, it is fair to say that Trinity has more physical science students that it has mathematicians). Bluap 13:25, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * To 'Bluap' - if you follow this link http://www.cam.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/statistics/ and click on 'Maths' and then find 'Trinity College' you will see that in the past four years, Trinity has not made a single offer to a pooled applicant. You will also see that Trinity has not accepted a single applicant in the summer pool. Please make sure that your facts are correct before joining in an argument. 172.188.191.126 13:55, 4 August 2007 (UTC)


 * As it happens, I slightly maths at Trinity, though admittedly slightly over 4 years ago. During that time, Trinity did make several offers to pool candidates. Bluap 02:29, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * To add further fuel to this argument, successful candidates in the British Maths Olympiad go to a training camp at Trinity where they are prepared for the International Maths Olympiad. asyndeton 12:40, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Prince Charles
This may or may not be relevant to WP, but i find it absolutely astonishing that Prince Charles was admitted to Cambridge with BC at a-level. Surely this fell well short of the entry requirements at the time? I was wondering if anyone knows whether Charles’ admittance to Cambridge has been a source of controversy, and or publicly reported? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jamesmh2006 (talk • contribs) 01:05, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * AFAIK, the royal colleges (not quite sure what this set is) have a duty between them to educate future monarchs, regardless of grades. This may be hearsay, but it sounds plausible. And reasonable, IMHO. Adam1729 09:09, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

haha. yeh i spose it's best not to have our future monarchs educated at some two-bit former polytechnic, even if that is all they're good enough for. --79.72.6.141 18:30, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Field medalists?
Because there is lots of space to the right of the list of Nobel prize winers, don't you want to put the list of Field medalists (very important) in that space? Randomblue 12:54, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Templeton Prizes
Hardly evidence of academic tradition. The prize is an oxymoron. There are very few original truths about spirituality. "Spirit" is not even a well defined concept. There's plenty evidence of the outstanding nature of Trinity without that. Listing them alongside Nobel Prizes and Fields Medals is a bit silly. Domminico (talk) 13:27, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Fungal Growth in Blue Boar Court
Someone has an odd idea of what belongs in an encyclopedia. Perhaps I should mention that there are some light bulbs that need replacing... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhkay (talk • contribs) 12:17, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:Nabokov book cover.jpg
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Alumni/Fellows
Henry Jackson (classicist) O.M. and Vice Master from 1914 to 1919 has been added to Alumni/Fellows.

Nitramrekcap (talk) 16:57, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

360 panorama of great court
here is a 360 panorama of the great court, could be usefull/interesting/whatever to integrate into the article. If anyone agrees, copy and paste it somewhere into the article

Chapel
Please note this comment in Talk:Trinity College Chapel: "there isn't even a mention of a chapel in the Trinity College, Cambridge article". I think someone ought to do something about it. (Don't expect me to do it - I am a Johnian!) &mdash; RHaworth 18:33, 27 January 2010 (UTC)

Chair leg
Varsity published a bit of history behind the chair leg a while ago. [] --Gak (talk) 09:03, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Tidy up images
The images in the article were getting a bit messy, so I took the liberty :-) to rearrange them and update some to images more relevant to the prose. cm&#610;&#671;ee&#2927;&#8202;&#865;&#176;&#160;&#814;&#1583;&#8202;&#865;&#176;&#8201;&#2669; 19:41, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

B

 * John Burnaby, Dean of Trinity College, Cambridge, Regius Professor of Divinity

C

 * Francis Cornford FBA, Classical Scholar, Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge,

E

 * Sir Arthur Eddington, OM FRS, Astrophysicist, Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge, Plumian Professor of Astronomy and Experimental Philosophy,

H

 * Sir Frederick Gowland Hopkins, OM, FRS, Nobel Prize winner, Biochemist, Professor, Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge

M

 * George Edward Moore OM, FBA, Philosopher, Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge, Professor of Philosophy, Member of the Cambridge Apostles, the intellectual secret society.

N

 * Hugh Frank Newall, FRS, Professor of Astrophysics, Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge, whose second wife was Dame Bertha Phillpotts Mistress of Girton College 1922–1925

R

 * Sir Leon Radzinowicz, FBA, Criminologist, Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge and wife Lady Isolde Radzinowicz.

S

 * Vincent Henry Stanton, Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge and Regius Professor of Divinity, Member of the Cambridge Apostles, the intellectual secret society

T

 * Henry Martyn Taylor, FRS, Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge, Mathematician, braille expert.

V

 * Augustus Arthur Vansittart, Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge, classical scholar
 * Arthur Woollgar Verrall, Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge, Classicist, Member of the Cambridge Apostles, King Edward VII professorship of literature, literary scholar

W

 * Denys Winstanley, Vice Master Trinity College, Cambridge: 1935–1947


 * John Wisdom, Professor of Philosophy, Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge, Philosopher, and Honorary Fellow of Fitzwilliam College

2.27.130.172 (talk) 21:52, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
 * They've now been added to the [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Category:Fellows_of_Trinity_College,_Cambridge&diff=next&oldid=591772300 appropriate category], Category:Fellows of Trinity College, Cambridge, by User:Aloneinthewild. 131.111.184.7 (talk) 14:36, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Fields Medal
I've added a listing of the college's Fields Medallists past and present. Someone with a lot of time on their hands might like to use the data on the Fields Medal page to turn this into a table as with the other similar sections on this page. I might add that Atiyah should be listed on the Fields Medal page as University of Cambridge as he is a present Fellow of Trinity (unless the idea is to list where they were when they got the Medal, in which case Borcherds should be listed as Cambridge as I believe he was at Trinity when he was awarded the medal). --Brian Josephson (talk) 10:52, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Singing on the River
It may not have been a traditional annual event, but singing madrigals from a raft of punts on the Cam in the summer definitely happened during my time (1969-75). It was not a 1980s innovation as stated. Mhkay (talk) 20:30, 29 December 2011 (UTC)
 * This reply is probably long overdue, but according to http://musicb3.wordpress.com/2011/06/09/draw-on-sweet-night-singing-on-the-river/ (not necessarily a reliable source), it might have been performed by the Cambridge University Chamber Choir at that time. cm&#610;&#671;ee&#2927;&#8202;&#865;&#176;&#160;&#814;&#1583;&#8202;&#865;&#176;&#8201;&#2669; 19:53, 10 June 2013 (UTC)
 * The performance is on the last Sunday of the Easter Term, I believe, but then one has to explain when the Easter Term, as the jargon is unconventional :-) . It could well have been in the 1980s that the event started in the current form; certainly it has not always been performed by the Trinity Choir.  My recollection was that previously it was performed by the University Madrigal Society, and then it might have been on King's Backs rather than Trinity. A Google search has led to the rather informative http://janus.lib.cam.ac.uk/db/node.xsp?id=EAD%2FGBR%2F0265%2FSOC.XXII (see the 1938–1963 item), which makes it clear that (a) that was the choir that sang on the river originally, and (b) it was, as I also recalled (I arrived on the scene in 1957), originally performed at King's. I'll update the page. --Brian Josephson (talk) 16:31, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

Chair Leg and Bicycle Pump
The chair leg which was swapped with a bicycle pump in 1982. The college immediately replaced the bicycle pump with a new chair leg. In 1985, the original chair leg was auctioned for charity in Rag week and bought by the President of the Union Society and given back to the college and is now back in King Henry's hand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.69.194.231 (talk) 23:08, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Largest College?
Can someone explain (or correct) the logic of the first paragraph? It seems to say that Trinitiy is the largest college. Except that Homerton is. Scaramouche (talk) 18:38, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Various points seem to be relevant here, one being that Homerton did not become a full college till 2010, according to the wiki page, so Trinity has been the largest college until recently. Also in terms of undergraduate numbers Trinity is probably still the largest. --Brian Josephson (talk) 19:44, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Recent visit
"On a recent visit, his sons William (latterly HRH The Duke of Cambridge) and Harry both visited during their motorcycle tour of the UK." Was this last week? QuentinUK (talk) 10:17, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
 * If you had exerted itself to click on 'View history' you would have seen that that item has been included in the article for quite a time. It looks as if this event in fact took place in 2008.  'Latterly' and 'recent' look distinctly out of place, but I'd favour deletion of this item rather than changing the wording, and anyway a citation should be given if it is to stay. --Brian Josephson (talk) 11:15, 14 March 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 5 external links on Trinity College, Cambridge. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20120713102645/http://intranet.westminster.org.uk/lists/whoswho/governors.asp to http://intranet.westminster.org.uk/lists/whoswho/governors.asp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060101062827/http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000006&sid=aDJspMg5jl24&refer=home to http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000006&sid=aDJspMg5jl24&refer=home
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120130154419/http://www.ukspa.org.uk/science_parks/content/1059/cambridge_science_park to http://www.ukspa.org.uk/science_parks/content/1059/cambridge_science_park
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130802013322/http://www.ox.ac.uk/about_the_university/facts_and_figures/undergraduate_admissions_statistics/school_type.html to http://www.ox.ac.uk/about_the_university/facts_and_figures/undergraduate_admissions_statistics/school_type.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130228074336/http://www.access.trin.cam.ac.uk/ to http://www.access.trin.cam.ac.uk/

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College motto
The information re the college motto has recently been changed to say it is Semper Eadem, with reference to an article by John Lonsdale, http://alumni.trin.cam.ac.uk/document.doc?id=22 as source. Later, however, Lonsdale said (http://alumni.trin.cam.ac.uk/document.doc?id=62) that this is not the motto. I have checked with him and he has confirmed that the motto originally in the article is the correct one. I will therefore revert the motto, and also include a link for it to another source. --Brian Josephson (talk)
 * I've just realised that I have an invitation from the Vice-Master that has the college shield on it, underneath which is a wiggly blue line with 'Virtus Vera Nobilitas' written almost invisibly on it. That surely is conclusive proof of which the motto is, even if the image cannot be found anywhere on the internet as far I have been able to discover. --Brian Josephson (talk) 19:26, 21 March 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi Brian! Do you mean http://armorial.library.utoronto.ca/stamps/TRI001_s1 ?
 * These publications from Trinity College suggest "Semper Eadem" as the motto:
 * "But to be true to our motto, Semper Eadem, which could rather loosely be construed as ‘Always the Best’, we shall have to become accustomed to change."
 * "The Master’s favourite mistranslation of what many suppose to be the College’s motto, Semper Eadem, but which in fact we owe to the Good Queen, Anne, is ‘Some change  is  good;  no  change  is  better.’"  (emphasis mine)
 * By the way, Singing on the River happens this Sunday, in case you are interested. Cheers, cm&#610;&#671;ee&#9094;&#964;a&#671;&#954; 11:42, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

John Lonsdale has admitted that he got it wrong, as I said. Anything that has the college shield on has the same motto as in your utoronto link and there can be no doubt that the 'virtus' version that features in the current WP page is the correct one. However, in the Hall you will see Semper Eadem next to the portrait of Henry VIII at http://www.bbc.co.uk/arts/yourpaintings/paintings/henry-viii-14911547-founder-of-trinity-college-cambridge-134698, and this may have been the cause of the misconception. --Brian Josephson (talk) 13:47, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Here is a picture of the crest showing the correct motto below it. --Brian Josephson (talk) 19:50, 14 February 2019 (UTC)

Cambridge Spy Ring

 * Both Burgess and Philby were at Trinity, and the college is regarded as the epicentre of Soviet recruitment to espionage at that time. It seems irresponsible to exclude this aspect altogether. Hanoi Road (talk) 00:11, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
 * The third paragraph lists the spies concerned (Trinity alumni include ... Soviet spies Kim Philby, Guy Burgess, and Anthony Blunt), so it's hardly the case that this aspect is excluded from the article. In any case, do you have a reliable reference for your assertion that the college is 'regarded as the epicentre of Soviet recruitment'. That sounds rather like 'original research', which is not allowed in WP.--Brian Josephson (talk) 09:10, 17 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Epicentre only in the sense that three of the main suspects were there, and recruited from there. Since Burgess, MacLean, Philby and Blount formed the core of it, and three of them were Trinity men goes some way to making the case. PS: Not original research. There is more than adequate evidence that Trinity was specifically targeted, all in the public domain.  Hanoi Road (talk) 14:19, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Adequate evidence? Can you provide a suitable reference, rather than simply saying that the evidence exists?  Wikipedia does not work like that; readers need to be able to check for themselves that Trinity was indeed specifically targeted, if that's what the article says. --Brian Josephson (talk) 16:36, 18 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Yes, I know how Wiki works. Do you? This is a talk page. It's for talking. I have made no alteration to the article. Secondly, do some reading before you post. I would start with The Oxford Handbook of National Security Intelligence (Johnson) which outlines Soviet strategy in respect of Trinity. This approach was simultaneously applied in the US with approaches to Alger Hiss (State) and Harry Dexter (Treasury), as well as others. Trevor-Roper arrives at broadly similar conclusions. As far as British espionage is concerned, Trinity was the prime recruiting ground, and this is not in dispute. Hanoi Road (talk) 23:28, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
 * You were suggesting a change to the article, and in that context it is appropriate to raise the question of what can be referenced as backup for that assertion that the college was 'regarded' as the epicenter for recruitment. People certainly consider it as the epicenter of the spy ring if you want to call it that, but that is something different.  In fact, the WP article on the Cambridge Five asserts (with a reference, please note!) that '[Blunt] acted as a talent-spotter and recruiter for most of the group save Burgess'.  Thus Trinity was probably the 'epicentre' just because that was Blunt's college.  If you do feel that some amplification of Trinity's role is in order, perhaps just appending 'recruiting agent', or whatever, to the reference to Blunt would be the way to do it? By the way, in accord with your suggestion I checked out the Oxford Handbook you refer to and while there is reference to the Cambridge Five Trinity does not seem to be mentioned. --Brian Josephson (talk) 10:35, 19 February 2020 (UTC)


 * All helpful, though we must be reading different versions of Johnson's book, in which Trinity is specifically outed as the motherlode, with convincing citations. Hanoi Road (talk) 23:41, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
 * What I've been looking at has ISBN 9780195375886, and is on line at https://www.oxfordhandbooks.com/view/10.1093/oxfordhb/9780195375886.001.0001/oxfordhb-9780195375886. If that's the same as yours, what chapter and page is it that you are referring to? --Brian Josephson (talk) 10:02, 20 February 2020 (UTC)


 * It's more complicated than most imagine. Cairncross was recruited by Jack Klugmann (doubtless you're familiar with him) and Klugmann in turn was recruited by Vasili Mitrokhin. It was really Cairncross who recruited Burgess and by then the Trinity Ball - pardon pun- was well and truly rolling. As for my saying that Trinity was deliberately targeted, I should qualify that by saying it was targeted incrementally. No matter. The KGB knew they has stumbled on a good thing and the result was the same. Can't find chapter and verse on the other thing, but I made some notes from it a while back. "This was the genius of Soviet recruiters, approaching the intelligensia of Britain in the midst of the Great Depression......Men like the infamous Cambridge 5 at Trinity in the mid 1930's observed waiters at high tables stuffing their pockets with crusts of bread while the toffs discussed Keynes's latest economic theory"...Not sure all this makes my case, though it does seem the place was targeted with greater intensity as things fell, domino fashion. Trevor-Roper has a much to say on this. Hanoi Road (talk) 17:40, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
 * That definitely has the air of Original Research. But as the spies are mentioned as alumni in the intro why not include, in the section on alumni, something like 'N of the Cambridge Five spies', and you can then get to work on that page (which I don't think I'll take up my time following!)?--Brian Josephson (talk) 17:53, 20 February 2020 (UTC)


 * Have no plans to set up as a John Banville, William Boyd, or indeed Trevor-Roper on this, though the likelihood of so many defectors graduating a single college defies coincidence, surely. I'll leave it those who care to dig further. There is ample evidence to support the claim. Hanoi Road (talk) 20:09, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

Not to be confused with
Repeadetly now the not to be confused with template is been removed for Trinity College Dublin on this page. Due to requests to discuss this before removing it again being ignored I am posting here myself.

Thus far edits that have removed the distinction have stated that it is obvious the two are different depsite them both having the exact same name. Trinity College Dublin has a distinction template within it to differentiate it from this page as well. I do not see why this page should be given any speacil treatment and not have a similar template. Dubarr18 (talk) 16:05, 19 May 2020 (UTC)
 * The template didn't belong on the TCD page, either, so I've removed it from there. Someone looking for Trinity College, Dublin won't end up at the article for Trinity College, Cambridge or vice versa.  Someone looking for Trinity College will be presented with the disambiguation page.  The distinguish template is needed only when there can reasonably be confusion. --David Biddulph (talk) 16:15, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

After checking through the disambiguation page and others I have noted the error of having a not to be confused with template. My apologies for the mistake. Dubarr18 (talk) 17:40, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Internal graduate studentships
The article until recently claimed that all students achieving a first were funded for a masters degree by an Internal Graduate Studentship (IGS) - it now says "most" instead of "all". My impression when I was at Trinity was that the IGS is awarded for PhDs, not masters degrees, and I'm not sure there's a particular association with firsts. Note that many masters degrees are now integrated masters, and so considered part of an undergraduate degree for internal students.

The cited page is a bit unclear, but note "On completion of the MASt, the student will be eligible to apply for a Trinity Internal Graduate Studentship at Trinity College in order to undertake the PhD degree." "On completion of the MPhil course, the student will be eligible to apply for a Trinity Internal Graduate Studentship at Trinity College in order to study for the PhD degree." --Thjread (talk) 09:54, 5 August 2021 (UTC)