Talk:Trinity University (Texas)/Archive 1

Pictures

 * I'd like to see a few pictures of the campus up here, but I'm currently across the country and won't be back in San Antonio until December or January. If anybody has the time, some shots of the tower, the Esplanade (especially including the sculpture), and other campus fixtures would be great. A shot of an athletics event would look good too. ...and yeah, realistically, I know I'll probably end up being the one who does this, but if anybody else stumbles on here, keep your eyes open for good, open-license pics. Thanks. Deadsalmon 21:12, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
 * TU student here! I can get a few photos for you over the week-end.Dknights411 02:26, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. I'm sure that the Development Office (does TU have one? I was there last year and in ASR, but I can't remember) would provide some too. I'll try to drop them an email. Deadsalmon 03:19, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I emailed my contacts at the Development Office to see what they say. --69.151.204.49 00:55, 31 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The Development Office has assigned an Ambassador Co-chair to this. Hopefully some more pictures, etc. are on the way.  :-)  --69.151.204.49 22:30, 1 February 2006 (UTC)


 * This looks a little more like a venue of Trinity's propaganda machine than an actual resource for facts. To me it reads like recruitment material.  For instance, as in all of Trinity's propagandae, the U.S. News and World Report citations are purposely vague and misleading; they're not as impressive as this article or the admissions dept. would like everyone to believe. Also, it might be important to note that note that while the seven new faculty members hired for the 2007-2008 academic year all have terminal degrees, only one has any post-doctoral teaching experience.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.221.32.21 (talk) 13:23, 14 July 2007


 * Re: (Undid revision 144650064 by Codelyoko193 (talk) oops- i thought it was an article)
 * Well, not an article, but the comment was definitely not written with NPOV in mind. Astute readers will note that the author of the previous comment didn't even bother to sign it. To 196.221.32.21, whoever you are: Yeah, I remember getting a grade report from Trinity that I didn't like, but way back then, there wasn't a nice, anonymous forum like this to lash out on. — Travis talk  04:58, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Traditions???
I am a 1979 graduate of Trinity. I reviewed the list of so called "traditions" and did not recognize a single one of them. In my humble opinion, traditions should be long-standing, and not recent inventions. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

---> I'm an '81 grad who also did a couple of years of graduate study afterwards. Some of these started to come into play in the mid-80's; I definitely remember climbing Murchison at freshman orientation in '77 but the senior class thing is newer. They get to go up and sign bricks if they make a class donation. You're right, there wasn't much in the way of tradition during our time there, other than bad athletics programs (excluding Tennis/Skeet) and the "Sperm" showing up at homecoming each year. But just because a tradition may be less than 20 years old (as most of these are) doesn't make it less a tradition. 68.94.213.245 17:10, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

69 here. We actually had decent athletics when I matriculated (65-69). When did the live-on-campus requirement begin? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

---> '81 again ... it was one of Caalgard's ideas ... late '80s/early '90s. You had Division I athletics - we had Division III where virtually no effort was put into maintaining a competent program (except tennis (still D-I) and skeet). That changed starting mid-90s and continues to this day. 68.94.208.187 20:27, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I went to Trinity in the mid-90s. The campus was desperate to establish traditions of any sort. Everything seemed immpermanent and in flux -- student organizations changing their names, so-called traditions falling by the wayside......  We had Spontaneous Erections and i remember hearing of the Sperm and Ova dance but i think that was already a thing of the past. Live-on campus was a requirement during that time 95-98.Deatonjr 02:14, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Why does Spontaneous Erections keep getting removed from the traditions list? It existed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.177.113.171 (talk) 18:41, 14 June 2007

('86) Spontaneous erections? Never heard of it. We had the sperm/ova thing — I had the honor of serving as a sperm in 1983 — and the chili cook-off. But not much else in the way of traditions. Except, of course, getting tossed in the fountain. — Travis talk 01:15, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Traditions

 * Why the removal of the traditions paragraph? 131.194.92.21] 20:07, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Not sure. I restored everything except the mention of ASR and the Trinitonian, which were less important details — the rest was relevant. Deadsalmon 06:53, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Pardon, didn't mean to look like a vandal -- "spontaneous erections" are something of a Trinity tradition. Students will randomly create, well, I'm not entirely sure what they're supposed to be, but random towers appear. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)
 * I dont know where you get your information, but in my experience based on the past three years as an undergraduate, I can think of no example which supports your deposition. Yoyoceramic 01:29, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
 * It has since been renamed to "Spontaneous Constructions" and happens durring first year orientation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 131.194.94.158 (talk) 08:18, 12 December 2006 (UTC).

Fraternities
You mention that there are only a couple of national co-ed fraternities. There is also an engineering fraternity, Theta Tau, which has national status. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.194.238.28 (talk) 1 October 2006
 * When was that fraternity active at Trinity? A chapter is not listed on the Theta Tau website . Please sign your posts (with four tildes) and cite your sources. Thanks.  --W0lfie 22:43, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
 * It is listed, at the bottom of the page, under "Colonies," whatever that means. Apparently not an official chapter, though. — Travis talk  14:24, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Odd thing to call it. If you visit the link in question, it doesn't appear to have anything to do with a fraternity.  It looks like Farzan's group's senior design project for a recent term.  Don't know why he didn't put it on the engineering server.  Very strange indeed.  Theta Tau certainly wasn't active during my tenure there.  But that's just OR.  :-) --W0lfie 17:54, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

FYI: not a single fraternity or sorority lost their charters this year (2012). there is no "tradition" of hazing, especially not a "long" one. the allegations made in 2012 have been proven to be largely manufactured, erroneous and inaccurate. MANY inaccuracies were in the student organization section, and some of the sweeping descriptors used were defamatory. the source material may be inaccurate; the content of the section was inaccurate.63.152.112.65 (talk) 17:13, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Sorry. But you have been overruled. You might disagree with what all the news reports have said, but they did say what they said. Take it up with the news media if you do not like what they said. If you feel otherwise, by all means show us your source (i.e. news report) proving that "allegations made in 2012 have been proven to be largely manufactured, erroneous and inaccurate." FYI - only individuals can be defamed, not organizations. (Some person has already made a website showing all the pictures of the Gamma girls who were involved in the hazing and stating what they did. Now that would be defamation, if untrue.  But that has nothing to do with Wikipedia)  The hazing tradition dates back to at least 1991 when a boy was killed due to hazing, and it has continued since then. That is a time span of over 21 yrs. This is specifically what the admistration said when they issued their hazing report in Mar / April 2012. In any event, as of now the consensus is to keep the article as it is. Albert14nx05y (talk) 07:35, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

you are utterly incorrect. i have a letter from president ahlburg (which is not of your concern and there is no need for me to divulge its contents to you) and you were clearly not a part of the group of alumni and their legal representatives who participated in the discussions and negotiations with the active members and administration. i, however, was and am. there was a new york times op/ed piece written in the last month (soon to be published). stop trolling and do not try to create issues where there are none. i will report you if you continue vandalizing the site.63.152.112.65 (talk) 13:38, 17 May 2012 (UTC)


 * Please do not remove talk page discussions. Additionally, Wikipedia has a policy on no original research, which seems to be what your conclusions are based upon.  Please read that policy.  Should a new news article appear, then, of course, this issue may be revisited.  But until then, the original wording stands as it has been determined to be well sourced.  Again, you may not like what the news reports said.  But the reports are what the reports are and you just have to live with it.Albert14nx05y (talk) 20:36, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

There is actually factual error reported in regards to the statement of the Triniteers and the death of Roland Peterson. In the wikipedia reference it is said that the death was a result of "a hazing incident that involved underaged drinking during initiation". The cited article in the NYT clearly states 'His report found no evidence of hazing but said that the presidents of the Spurs and Triniteers "admit that the contents of two half kegs of beer were consumed" at the party.' Although this indeed is a sad event saying that this was a result of hazing is patently false and should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.14.229.49 (talk) 18:26, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Notable Alumni?

 * "Robert A. Esparza (B.S., Business Administration 1976/MBA Business Administration 1978)- Trinity Baseball's second leading hitter in the Nation and All-American 1976."

I can see nothing to show that this alum should be included in the list. The way I understand it, notability here means outside the confines of Trinity. I am therefore removing the name. If the IP user that added this person has evidence to show that the name should be included, please respond here. Thanks. — Travis talk  13:24, 19 August 2007 (UTC)


 * "Wallace Craig (B.S. Business Administration, 1971) - Noted eclectic photographer"

Other than one blog, I can find no evidence of notability. Please comment here if further notability evidence is available. Thanks. — Travis talk  21:55, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Fightin' Texas Aggie Band
There is an unattributed comment about this University's band over at Fightin' Texas Aggie Band and Talk:Fightin' Texas Aggie Band that is a bit disparaging and could use a non-aggie reference. Can someone here help? ThreeE 16:20, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * The quote referenced above: "The band was so intimidating that, in 1960, one band gave up without a fight: the Trinity Tiger Band opted to sit instead of perform and gave the Aggie Band the entire halftime to perform." That should be fairly easy to verify or debunk — was there actually a Trinity vs. A&M football game in 1960? Given the fact that A&M is a Division I school and Trinity is in Division III, the idea seems rather ludicrous today. — Travis talk  19:30, 20 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Trinity was Division I (small school) until the late 60's or early 70's. TAMU did play Trinity in 1960 in San Antonio and in fact that was the only victory of the year for what was a pretty sad Aggie team [].  No idea if the story about the band is true or not and unless the story can be formally substantiated it should be removed per Wikipedia guidelines.  Having looked at the talk page this looks like it was an oral story written down by someone decades after it supposedly happened.  Very slippery saying something like that is factual.    68.94.193.114 20:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Would be helpful for you to add your thoughts over there: Talk:Fightin' Texas Aggie Band. The article in question is written from a single point of view and most "facts" are self-referenced. ThreeE 21:49, 1 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I've looked at this and decided to stay out as long as I could, but I feel certain assertions are being given WAY out of context.
 * The book in question was published by a reputable organization (the Texas A&M University Press) by a reputable author (a former member of the Board of Regents of Texas A&M)
 * ThreeE believes that there is no distinction between the A&M University Press and the Aggie Band (thus the book is "self-published")
 * ThreeE has also stated that the claims made in the book are made up by the band and are not true in any way, but has no proof whatsoever that this person is not trustworthy or that the claims (published in a book by a reputable publisher) are not true.
 * The claim is sourced, but it is a source that ThreeE just flat doesn't like.
 * I am sorry that any of you are being drug into this. As always, you are welcome to weigh in on this either on this page or the band's page. If you read WP:V, WP:RS, and the associated talk page, I think you will agree that this quote IS sourced IAW Wikipedia and academic standards, but just not up to ThreeE's personal standards. — BQZip01 —  talk 08:05, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

(outdent) Properly sourced, maybe, but I would like to see the source text to be able to put it into context. I'm not clear on the answer to ThreeE's original question: Who said it? The book's authors or someone else they are quoting? Without seeing it in context, it is very difficult to tell whether it is fact or hearsay. (I guess I may be heading to the library in the near future.) — Travis talk  13:06, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Absolutely! If you need help finding it, let me know. If they don't have it, consider an interlibrary loan from Texas A&M. — BQZip01 —  talk 17:30, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Others that have seen the book (I have not) have said that the editor of the section referenced was the band's director at one time (at the time of the incidents?). In addition, the book isn't a peer-reviewed university publication as is often claimed by the article's proponents.  It is however self-referencing in that the book and the band are both a&m entities.  But this isn't the right place for that debate, so I will end here with a request that this topic move to the article's talk page. ThreeE 18:25, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I have NEVER claimed that it is a peer reviewed book. Only you have. Additionally, would it help if I just typed the contents of the paragraph in question here? I would be happy to do that with page numbers and everything if you'd like to look them up? Up to you TravisTx. — BQZip01 —  talk 04:17, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * If you don't mind quoting the paragraph here, please do so. Having given up band early in high school, it doesn't really matter to me one way or the other, but it It should go a long way toward putting this question to rest. — Travis talk  21:28, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Allow me to restate that: I suppose it does matter a little to me, but when looking at the forest, this little tree is pretty insignificant. — Travis talk  21:37, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Very well (the first half of the paragraph deals with the effects on other bands; this is the second half...trimmed for brevity):
 * "According to an article in the San Antonio Light of September 17, 1960, the Aggie Band's reputation reached the point in 1960 that at least one band gave up without a fight. When the Texas Aggie football team went to San Antonio to play the Trinity Tigers, the Trinity band decided to sit that one out and let the Aggie Band have the whole halftime. This time, the football team won, too. It was the football team's only win of the year." page 33, right column, 4th paragraph.
 * I hope this helps. — BQZip01 —  talk 23:04, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Quite frankly if the Aggies want to brag about something that (allegedly) happened nearly 45 years ago, who cares? Trinity hasn't had a marching band for decades anyway and I can't imagine anyone connected with the University caring one whit about this.  68.94.193.114 04:17, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * As a former member of Trinity's pep band, I think that's a fair assumption. -W0lfie (talk) 23:03, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Apparently TravisTx cares, so you don't speak for the entire University. I didn't post this here, but I am answering the questions in good faith. If you don't care, then why are you posting at all? — BQZip01 —  talk 04:58, 4 October 2007 (UTC)

(outdent) As I previously said, it doesn't really matter. I only jumped into this because the claim sounded dubious and thought it needed fact-checking. Now it seems that a look through the Light's archives (long-since gobbled up by the Express-News) would be in order. I, however, don't intend to drive to San Antonio over this trivial question. — Travis talk  14:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Pages that link to Trinity University
A lot of the links at the disambiguation page Trinity University are to articles that mention alumns of Trinity University (Texas) with a minority relating to the women's school in DC.

I've made a start on cleaning some of these up, and got the list at Special:WhatLinksHere/Trinity_University below a hundred items. However, as a Brit, those relating to American football and other athletics are beyond my comprehension without serious research in sporting yearbooks.

Could someone in San Antonio (or an alumn wherever they may be) please make the necessary disambiguations so that these articles can be picked up for the Wikipedia categories relating to your college. Thanks. Lang Rabbie 17:53, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Trinity University which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 20:15, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

In the news
Some hubbub about "the year of our Lord" on the diplomas was in the news this morning. Don't know yet if it will be "notable." Time will tell. --69.151.147.118 (talk) 11:25, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Hazing
One or more unregistered editors have deleted material in this article the discuss hazing performed by Trinity student organizations. The material seems to be well-supported by reliable sources and it certainly seems to be relevant to this topic. Until and unless these deletions are discussed, I (and probably other editors) will continue to revert the deletions as they're being done without any discussion whatsoever. Without that discussion, the edits appear to be attempts to whitewash the article and remove information that is negative. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ElKevbo (talk • contribs) 20:45, June 9, 2012‎
 * While I'm not one of the people doing the removal, I would submit that saying "Historically, fraternities and sororities have been mired in conflict at Trinity" when only two examples are cited seems over the top and possibly not NPOV. Two examples isn't even a pattern.  There are ways to acknowledge that there have been issues without using unsupported language like "mired in conflict." I'm also curious why the preceding comment is unsigned given the strength of the assertion. 99.191.106.234 (talk) 23:23, 11 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It looks I left the comment above and neglected to sign it. Sorry!
 * Offhand, your argument seems to have merit. My objections are primarily procedural as the previous removals have been done without any discussion or justification.  But if you want to remove the material on the grounds you have just stated then I don't have any immediate objections. ElKevbo (talk) 00:41, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Notable people
Hi. The TU alumni list has gotten to the point that it needs to be split off into its own article. See the following colleges as examples. Thanks! Corkythehornetfan (talk) 18:20, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emporia_State_University#Notable_alumni
 * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Kansas#Notable_alumni_and_faculty

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060506023002/http://lib.trinity.edu:80/libinfo/factsheet.pdf to http://lib.trinity.edu/libinfo/factsheet.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130121033620/http://web.trinity.edu/Documents/student_affairs_docs/Career_Services_docs/Data/11_Graduating_Student_Survey.pdf to http://web.trinity.edu/Documents/student_affairs_docs/Career_Services_docs/Data/11_Graduating_Student_Survey.pdf

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080116140230/http://www.trinity.edu:80/departments/athletics/Football/Pontiac_GCPOY.htm to http://www.trinity.edu/departments/athletics/Football/Pontiac_GCPOY.htm

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