Talk:Triple Crown (snooker)/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Cavie78 (talk · contribs) 10:47, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Lead
 * "The Triple Crown (sometimes called snooker's majors) in snooker is winning the three most prestigious tournaments" -> Think it would be better to say "The Triple Crown (sometimes called snooker's majors) in snooker is the name given to the three most prestigious tournaments" As you say later, Players who win all three tournaments are said to have "won the Triple Crown". It's my understanding that the name is used to describe the events, not just winning them.
 * It did use to say something similar, but consensus is against it as not strictly true. The events are sometimes called "Triple Crown events", but the actual Triple Crown is to win all three. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:38, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Ok, in that case I think you should say "The Triple Crown (sometimes called snooker's majors) refers to winning the three most prestigious tournaments in snooker" Cavie78 (talk) 10:12, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:53, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "The individual events are deemed to be the most reputable" -> Suggest rewording to "The individual events are deemed to be the most prestigious in the snooker calendar"
 * doneBest Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:38, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Link ranking points to Snooker world rankings?
 * Done Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:38, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "The Triple Crown dates back to the 1969 World Snooker Championship, when the event changed reverted to a knockout format from the prior "challenge" basis." I think you need to make it clear this is retrospective and say something in the lead about 1977 being the first year the three Triple Crown tournaments were played (see also commment below regarding History)
 * I've added a para Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:08, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "with both Stephen Hendry and Ronnie O'Sullivan winning each event five times or more" -> "with only Stephen Hendry and Ronnie O'Sullivan having won each event five times or more"?
 * Done Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:38, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "Three players have won all three in the space of a season, with Mark Williams, Steve Davis each and Hendry having done so on two occasions" -> "Three players have won all three in the space of a season, a feat Mark Williams and Steve Davis have achieved once, with Hendry being the only player to do so on two occasions"
 * Done Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:38, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "the name was officialised as part of a "Triple Crown series"" This is a bit confusing. Do you mean "the "Triple Crown series" name was officially recognised"? And who was it reognised by? The WPBSA? You don't mention this in the body, you only make reference to the waistcoat badges.
 * Yeah, on that date they started to call it a series (something they've done a lot, such as the Home Nations Series, and Coral Cup Series) - I'll reword. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:38, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

History
 * There appears to be nothing about the first use of the term? Was this in 1977 with the first Masters? When was it retrospectively conferred?
 * It was retrospectively done yes, but from 1984. Just searching for a source. - have you got anything in Snooker Scene about this? I thought it would be an easy fix, but there's no overview page for Triple Crown; so it'll have to be contemporary sources. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski  (talk • contribs) 14:34, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I checked NewsBank and the earliest use of the term I found there was a quote by John Higgins: "Higgins is trying to become only the third player, after Steve Davis and Stephen Hendry, to hold the Masters, World and UK titles at the same time. "That triple crown would be a dream but it's going to be tough," he said." (O'Sullivan is beaten by bruised Doherty, The Independent, 13 Feb 1999). (There were earlier references to an "overseas" triple crown but that was just about winning three tournaments outside the UK.) Has the actual term been around since the 80s? I'll have a look in a couple of books. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:47, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
 * In that case, I'll simply say it was retrospectively given as I can't find anything official Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:53, 23 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "In 1977, a third Triple Crown event was created" -> "In 1977, the final Triple Crown event was created"
 * done Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:34, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "it was opened up to all professionals and became a ranking event in 1984" -> "in 1984 the competition was opened to all professionals and also became a ranking event."
 * Done Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:34, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "called the "snooker's majors""
 * Done Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:34, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "Triple Crown events are considered the highest professional titles in terms of prestige, and often host the most prize money" -> "Triple Crown events are considered the most prestigious snooker titles, and have generally offered the most prize money"
 * Done Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:34, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "However, in recent years, money for other events, such as the China Open and the upcoming Saudi Arabia Snooker Masters." You haven't finished this sentence. Presumably you mean to say that those events have offered larger prize funds?
 * Good catch. Done. The Saudi championship next season has a winners prize of £1million, higher than that of winning all three! Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:34, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "As of 2019, players who had completed the Triple Crown had a gold crown embroidered into their playing waistcoats" -> From the 2019 Masters onwards, players who have completed the Triple Crown have a gold crown embroidered on their playing waistcoats in recognition of their achievement.
 * done Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:34, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Triple Crown winners
 * "at the same time but spanned two seasons" -> "at the same time but his victories spanned two seasons"
 * Done Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:39, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "all need to win the World Championships having won The Masters and UK Championships" -> "all need to win the World Championships, having won the Masters and UK Championships"
 * Fixed Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:39, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "The three have lost nine World Finals between them, six by White" -> "The three have lost nine World Finals between them, with White accounting for six of these"
 * done Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:39, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "White has not appeared at The Crucible since 2006" I think it would be better to say "the World Championships" here. I don't think a non-expert reader would necessarily know what you mean by The Crucible here
 * Reworded Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:39, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "having a World title" -> "having a World Championships title"
 * DOne Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:39, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "with Parrott reaching the final on three occasions between 1989 and 1992" Make it clear you mean the World Championships
 * Very unclear, as I meant the Masters final! Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:39, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "won the World and Masters" -> "won the World Championship and Masters"
 * Done Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:39, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * "Mountjoy required the World Championship" -> "Mountjoy failed to win only the World Championship"
 * Done Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:39, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Tournament winners
 * Ok

Images
 * Ok. Ronnie image is appropriately licenced. I think the PD licence for the Triple Crown logo is borderline. Is the stylised crown really a "simple geometric shape"?
 * Hmm, I'm not sure you could copyright a crown? I agree it's borderline, but I don't really think it's that close to be worried. I'm no commons expert though Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:33, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I think the crown is probably too generic to be copyrighted so happy to pass over this, but I definitely think it's a close call Cavie78 (talk) 10:12, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Sources
 * What makes Chris Turner's Snooker Archive a reliable source?
 * Chris Turner is one of 3? notable snooker historians; the archive is used on most snooker pages, not limited to FAs. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:31, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * What makes Global Snooker Centre a reliable source?
 * Similar.
 * What makes Snooker Database a reliable source?
 * Been respected as significantly more reliable alongside snooker.org for use on results and similar.
 * What makes Snooker Scene a reliable source?
 * Snooker Scene is a print magazine (or at least it used to be), running since 1972 (see Snooker Scene). Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:31, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * This one is definitely ok in that case Cavie78 (talk) 10:12, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Source 19 should include Sky Sports in the ref
 * Added Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:31, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * What makes snooker.org a reliable source?
 * Most of the above are items that are deemed reliable, but more than willing to open up a talk to gain consensus. For reference, we are pretty quick to make items unreliable when they are likely to not always be accurate, such as cuetracker.net, which is globally blacklisted. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 13:31, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I've stumbled across discussion relating to cuetracker.net when reading snooker articles in the past, but I would highly recommend adding something about sources to WikiProject Snooker regarding which ones are considered realiable and which are not. Because of the, shall we say, rather homemade nature of many of these sites, they don't scream RELIABLE. In the example of Chris Turner, I can't find much about him on the web, so it would be useful for reviewers if you could establish why he was considered a "notable snooker historian". You clearly know your stuff, but I think this question will come up again and again unless there's a discussion and somewhere to point reviewers to to explain Cavie78 (talk) 10:12, 21 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree. I'll nominate something in the future. I usually use Eurosport saying "Snooker historian Chris Turner" to show he's pretty reliable. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 10:27, 21 May 2020 (UTC)


 * An interesting read on a subject I love, but feels like there's quite a lot to do to take this to GA status. Placing on hold for Cavie78 (talk) 10:47, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * No problem, this all seems very doable. Glad to hear you are a fan! If you are interested in snooker, I have a whole series of articles coming through GAN! Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:39, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Just looking for an additional source, and I'll have covered the above Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 14:39, 20 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I think I've made all of the above fixes, I hope it's suitable. I was unable to find an exact date for the Triple Crown being founded, so I've made a few changes Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 16:19, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for making the changers I'm going to pass this, but I think you need to address the issue with the sources for snooker articles once and for all. Congrats. I saw my first Triple Crown last year in York at the Uks when play was stopped three times due to people in the audience fainting/being sick before Higgins and Bingham played one of the worst matches I've ever seen! Feel free to let me know if you need anymore reviews for snooker articles Cavie78 (talk) 20:32, 25 May 2020 (UTC)
 * You'll never catch me working on snooker articles! That the 2019 UK Championship? I've been putting off writing that one, but it is on the to-do list. Apart from a majestic semi for Maguire, it wasn't my favourite comp! I'll write something up at WT:SNOOKER in due course about the sourcing, as it makes a lot of sense. Best Wishes,  Lee Vilenski (talk • contribs) 20:37, 25 May 2020 (UTC)