Talk:Triple J

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Something
I wouldn't, if I knew who they were to start with :) (We didn't get Triple J in my area until 1995)  --Chuq 02:48, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

Regarding the regional expansion - ideally I'd like this section to specify the areas "expanded" to at each time. I only remember Launceston, Albany, Bathurst and Mackay (as well as three others whose names I have forgotten) that received it in 1995/1996.

As for the most recent changes, I have sourced info from http://www.abc.net.au/corp/hist7_radio.htm (mainly that the expansion occurred in two lots, 1994 and 1996).

''Something missing from the 1990s national expansion section is that the expanded markets had their own local programming slots (or at least Adelaide did) for a couple of years. Club Escape was an influential Adelaide dance music show that ran on Saturday nights. --DaSuthNa (talk) 00:44, 6 February 2018 (UTC) ''

The page above says it was expanded to 44 areas. The list below gives 57 areas. Subtracting the original 9 (capitals + Newcastle) that still leaves 48, so there must be four more additions since the 1996 expansion.

OTOH, this page (JJJ in 1999 thanks to archive.org) says From there the station expanded yet again to 18 rural centres across Australia in January 1995, the first stage in a plan to reach a total of 46 regional centres of the country.

I've done some maths and used archive.org to view triple J's frequency page at that time, and it lists a total of 55 areas. The Albury/Wodonga frequency was doubled up, listed in both Vic and NSW, so that makes 54. That makes the total of 46 regional centres (and 8 capitals, counting Newcastle as regional) make sense.

The three transmitters that exist now, that didn't exist before, are Townsville North (97.5 FM), Wagga Wagga (101.1 FM), and strangely Bathurst 95.9FM. (the Bathurst in 1996 may have been this one )

Check the list below for locations we are still missing.

NSW: Armidale, Bathurst (1996), Bega/Cooma, Broken Hill, Central Tablelands, Central Western Slopes, Goulburn (town), Grafton/Kempsey, Illawarra, Manning River, Murrumbidgee Irrigation Area, Newcastle (1989), Richmond/Tweed, SW Slopes/E Riverina, Sydney (1975), Tamworth, Upper Namoi, Wagga Wagga

ACT: Canberra (1989)

NT: Alice Springs, Darwin (1989)

Qld: Brisbane (1989), Cairns, Cairns North, Darling Downs, Mackay (1996), Gold Coast, Mt Isa, Nambour, Rockhampton, Southern Downs, Townsville, Townsville North, Wide Bay

SA: Adelaide (1989), Adelaide Foothills, Mt Gambier, Renmark, Spencer Gulf North

Tas: Hobart (1989), Launceston (1996)

Vic: Ballarat, Bendigo, Goulburn Valley, Latrobe Valley, Melbourne (1989), Mildura/Sunraysia, Murray Valley, Upper Murray, Warrnambool, Western Victoria

WA: Albany (1996), Bunbury, Central Agricultural, Geraldton, Kalgoorlie, Perth (1989)

-- Chuq 02:48, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)


 * Is this a list of locations that don't have confirmed frequencies? If this is a list of frequencies needed, am I correct in presuming that I will need a source even if I live in one of the areas? Matz44 03:19, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

Station history
Info from these sites might be useful for early station history: -- Chuq 07:26, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * http://web.archive.org/web/19990828025123/kali.murdoch.edu.au/cntinuum/6.1/Dawson.html - (found with archive.org)
 * http://www.milesago.com/Radio/2jj.htm

Anyone else surprised by how little of the 1990s lineup is talked about, its skips from the 80s to the regional expansion which started in the mid 90s and missed the whole 1989-1995 line up

6-9 Mikey and Helen 9-12 Angela Catterbs 12-4 Andy Giltre 4-7 Ian & Deb 7-10 Michael Tunn

Has someone whitewashed the 90s history at some point? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 101.185.77.90 (talk) 05:44, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

I hate 'official' histories. Double Jay started broadcasting about October or November '74. Under the terms of the licence they were allowed 'test transmissions' before the launch. The only catch was that they had to shut down during prime time - meaning only for a few hours of an afternoon. In those days of AM broadcasting most radio stations would close at night from 10PM or midnight. and start again about 6AM. For those few months Double Jay (by broadcasting all night) was on air each day for longer than almost any other station. The 'official' launch was almost an anti-climax.

Can the article mention Fish Milkshakes? :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.32.229.47 (talk) 21:31, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Unearthed
A couple of questions about changes to the unearthed section: -- Chuq 03:56, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I think it was more of an ongoing thing, than an annual thing?
 * Innocent Criminals (=Silverchair) was, although a Triple J discovery, before the whole Unearthed thing? (I'm fairly sure though, that their 'finding' of this band encouraged them to start the Unearthed project).

Unearthed used to be a competition that was run annually in specific locations (i.e. unearthed Victoria). It has since evolved into an ungoing thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by S4119292 (talk • contribs) 09:00, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Silverchair were discovered by an SBS TV show called Nomad. The talent-search part of the show was a joint production of JJJ and SBS, and its success inspired Unearthed. http://www.abc.net.au/longway/artist_index/silverchair.htm

Silverchair won SBS TV's Nomad's PICK ME competition in June 1994, as the'Innocent Criminals'. They won a day's recording in the JJJ studios to record 'Tomorrow', the winning song, and a film clip shot on Kodak film directed by Robert Hambling. The competition was an SBS initiative and production, JJJ was not involved in the selection of the winning act. simonashford (talk) 13:57, 5 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Silverchair Recovery Special. 'Pick Me' Nomad for SBS —Preceding unsigned comment added by Simonashford (talk • contribs) 13:55, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Triple J / Double Jay
Should a separate article be created for Double Jay? -- Chuq 04:46, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * If not, Double Jay should redirect to Triple J and links to it should be removed.
 * If so, some of the history content from Triple J could be moved there, and it should be linked from this article prominently. Maybe History of Triple J could possibly redirect to there as well, but obviously anything from 1980 onwards would not be in the Double Jay article so it could be an awkward split.


 * I think Double Jay should redirect here. It's still the same station, really, and cutting it out would mean wiping out a large portion of the current article. Ambi 10:55, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Getting this featured
I think this is really starting to look fantastic, after some of the edits made over the last couple of days. I think we're really close, too, to being able to put this up for featured status.


 * 1) I've tried to cut down on some of the editorialising, but I think there's still some opinion throughout this (such as stating that JJJ was "entirely" responsible for so-and-so's success), which probably needs to go before someone objects to it when it becomes a featured article candidate
 * 2) What would you all think of moving the presenters list to List of Triple J presenters?
 * 3) There's still about four programs apparently needing work.
 * 4) *Net 50
 * 5) *The Breakfast Show
 * 6) *Today Today
 * 7) *The Chat Room
 * 8) As far as the images go, this one isn't tagged. Secondly, has anyone been able to work out whether we're going to be covered with these images under Australian fair dealing laws? If so, we should change them to the new template. Ambi 10:55, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * To reply one at a time...
 * I guess saying "was a strong positive influence" would be good enough :)
 * Hmm, I tend to dislike "List of.. articles". However I am planning to create stubs for each so that the shows they have hosted from the past can be moved into there, then they can be arranged three-column style to take up less vertical space.
 * Yeah... I think The Breakfast Show will take the longest to do :) We can probably skip the Net 50 and The Chat Room, as they aren't high profile shows (well Net 50 is, but theres not much to say - its a chart show).  Maybe Creatures/Artery deserves a mention?
 * That linked pic was from the Triple J site. I was hoping to use it as a place filler until I found a real free one on the net, but no luck yet - I have asked around at a few forums so should get one soon!  Might have to ask an expert in copyright law (someone here said they are/know one?) about the CD/book covers.
 * -- Chuq 15:16, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I'd agree doing more editorialisation culling, leaning on the side of ruthlessness.
 * I'm with Chuq here.
 * The Breakfast Show section is good enough the way it is, I reckon. Sure, they're good and all that but besides being hyperactive at 6:00am what else do they do? The only thing I can think that's worthwhile adding is how they both hassled The Beatie Boys over the phone on Wednesday. :)
 * Both TripleJ and the ABC in general would have plenty of contact points regarding using their images. If it's just for an informational article then I can't see what their problem would be.
 * Airconditioning 04:45, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

the history and programming sections need to be integrated and needs major copyediting. currently the programming section is far too long (it needs some additional sub-sectioning at the very least) and some of the material there would be better under the history section. the programming section should focus on the current/recent programming and have a short summary of the programming history, but much it should be in the history section. there is also quite a bit of repetition of material in the programming section, as it appears two writers have added text that covers the same period. clarkk 11:19, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Possible Wiki Links
I am currently testing an automated Wikipedia link suggester. Ran it on this article, here are the results:


 * Can link market share: ...urveys, usually with less than half the market share of its major commercial rivals.http://...
 * Can link The establishment: ...stralian commercial radio stations. The establishment of Double Jay marked an historic change...
 * Can link Double Jay: ... radio stations. The establishment of Double Jay marked an historic change in Australian...
 * Can link capital city: ... radio licence issued in any Australian capital city since 1932....
 * Can link program director: ...a 1990 commercial radio manager and program director Barry Chapman (ex-2SM Sydney) w...
 * Can link general manager: ... (ex-2SM Sydney) was appointed as general manager to oversee Triple J's network expansion...
 * Can link radio programming: ...he dust had settled on the dispute, the radio programming was not nearly as free-form as it had b...
 * Can link current affairs: ...ection below). It also covers news and current affairs from a youth-oriented perspective,a alt...
 * Can link top-down: ...dually replaced by a more business-like top-down management style and after the controve...
 * Can link Japanese pop: ...special-interest programs including the Japanese pop show Nippi Rock Shop, Arnold Frolow...
 * Can link American music: ...riented grunge style that dominated American music at the same time. ...
 * Can link The Police: ...he huge commercial success of acts like The Police and Nirvana in Australia unquestionably...
 * Can link popular songs: ...est 100'' is an annual poll of the most popular songs amongst its listeners. It has been con...
 * Can link gold medal: ...eing waved behind the presentation of a gold medal to an Australia swimmer at the 1996 S...
 * Can link road signs: ... Australia. *A group of people erecting road signs with the Triple J frequency all the way...
 * Can link Tim Ross: ...(Net 50, -1998-2000) *Merrick Watts and Tim Ross - "Merrick and Rosso"...

Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these links may be wrong, some may be right; You can leave positive feedback or negative feedback; Please feel free to delete this section from the talk page. -- Nickj 08:07, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Jay/Lindsay links
What to do with the following articles, so far as content and redirects go?

Frenzal Rhomb, Jay and the Doctor, Jason Whalley, Lindsay McDougall

I've set up the first two as their own articles, and the last two as redirects to Jay and the Doctor. I guess it is similar to Merrick and Rosso or Roy and HG, in that they are rarely known for the individual pursuits. (Compare to Adam and Wil, who each have their own "other things" that they are well known for.) -- Chuq 03:04, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Radio ratings
Does anyone know where rating can be acquired for free? It would be interesting to see.. I've heard Triple J's ratings are a lot better outside the five major cities, but would like some numbers to back it up. -- Chuq 04:47, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * The Melb/Sydney ones linked in the header are the only ones I know of. I'm sure it does rate better in regional areas, it's very often the only radio station which plays modern music in rural/regional areas and judging by the callers to shows like super request, a good % of the audience is from regional areas. But I don't have the figures. Psychobabble

You can access them at AC Nielson's Media Research site - http://www.nielsenmedia.com.au/MRI_pages.asp?MRIID=11, plus there is an archive http://www.acnielsen.com.au/radio_archive.asp. Reubot 07:26, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

2005 schedule
- Chat room has not been renewed for 2005.

30 Year anniversary
Triple J is coming up to its 30th anniverary in Jan 2005, and they have a page dedicated to collecting historical info: http://www2b.abc.net.au/triplej/30days30years/ - this could come in very handy! -- Chuq 02:35, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Target group
I know the article says that Triple J's target group is between the ages of 12 and 25, but the metropolitan radio rating surveys show that they have their highest market share in the 25-39 age range. I don't know how to work this into the article, though. Did Triple J peak in popularity in the 1980s, thus explaining why this age group prefers it despite not being the intended target group? - Mark 08:10, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I'd just like to say you've all done a fabulous job. :) --Randolph 09:26, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

None of their presenters are in the 12-25 year old age bracket. Is there evidence this is a true demographic target? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.23.146.66 (talk) 03:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

JJJ online
I am looking at this:. I would like to include some information about triple J moving online since, to me at least, it's a really important aspect of triple J - especially the podcasts. Any ideas or pointers before I go ahead and add. I thought of adding maybe 1 or 2 paragraphs in the History under a new '2000 onwards' subsection. The website started in 1995 but has probably been more relevant in the 2000 onwards historical division. Thoughts? --Lisa 04:31, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Jack the love nerd
If someone culd look at that articel and merge it in here if appropriate, would be great. 1 sentence wld probably be enough. Rich Farmbrough 12:06, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Like a Version?
Is it worth making some mention of Mel's "Like a Version" program here? It's been going for a while, and it seems to me quite a few popular covers are coming from it. pfctdayelise 15:09, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

I agree —Preceding unsigned comment added by S4119292 (talk • contribs) 09:02, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

2006 Changes

 * Today Today has been confirmed as not coming back in 2006 (replaced by a show hosted by Robbie Buck)
 * Net 50 has been 'retired'
 * Graveyard Shift isnt returning
 * Return to the name "Three Hours of Power"???

Triple J vs triple j
If you look at the ABC website and the triple j website you will see that triple j is written in all lower case. I realise that it isn't possible to write the title in all lower case but shouldn't it be written as 'triple j' throughout the article rather than the present Triple J? --Zig c 10:50, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

One night stand
Can anyone write more on this subject, Natimark was great. Enlil Ninlil 09:12, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Programs
I am putting all programs in without much content now, hope someone will fill out. I will do it over the next month. My spelling is also no good. Is this ok or too much info? Enlil Ninlil 01:02, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

CD Compilations/Releases
It may be helpful to list all CDs released by triple j over the years; Full Metal Racket and Eleven are but two not shown on this page Mdgr 05:31, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Article Length
I think this article is too long. Perhaps it needs to have an abreviated history paragraph with a link to a main article Triple J History. Also I think the current presenters need to be on the main page but surely the long list of past presenters can be moved to a seperate article List of Triple J presenters?--TInTIn 08:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Audio Version
http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/30years/audio/censorship_nwa_1990.mp3 I found this on the web before finding this article.... RealG187 18:39, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

List of presenters/programs
How amusing. I recently split off the list of presenters to list of Triple J presenters. Now on reading this talk page, I see it has already been suggested be two people in the past - once (when Ambi/Rebecca suggested itover 3 years ago) I disagreed with it! I must have a bad memory. Anyway, it has been done now - referencing it is difficult - not finding the sources, but fitting it all into the table is ..

I have also started on (in my user space) User:Chuq/List of Triple J programs - partially as an easier way of displaying the presenter info. All comments/suggestions appreciated. -- Chuq 08:02, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Frequency?
It'd be nice to be able to easily find the Triple J frequency on the page. I've skimmed the article and I still can't find it. It's turned what should be a 30 second "maybe I should look that up" into a bit of a hassle. I know it can be found elsewhere but it'd only be a small addition to make the article more useful. Bride of lister 10:51, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Lack of Sources
Almost the entire article reads like a bad high school paper. There are maybe ten sourced statements in the article. The rest looks like original research. Can we get some sources for this article? 122.104.160.66 (talk) 02:33, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Indeed, parts of it just seem to be someone's opinion, and while I don't for the most part disagree with it, it's not encyclopaedic. Orderinchaos 12:33, 9 March 2009 (UTC)


 * OK, OK, I'm working on it. Trouble is there aren't many easily accessible comprehensive references (hey, YOU can spend hours in trawling old newspapers if you're so excited about it). I freely admit that a lot of the content in the early section is from my own knowledge of the station (I've been a listener since Day One), but the only half-decent print reference for the early years of the station is Elder & Wales (which I'm working through) and it's very useful but not exactly systematic in its presentation; there are also a few scattered references in Ken Inglis' book on the ABC which I'll add as soon as possible. I understand that former DJ Gayle Austin was writing a thesis about the first 16 years of the station ( but I've not located that yet. Dunks (talk) 13:24, 9 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Too busy trawling old newspapers for my own area of articles (see this one for a recent example :) I know what you mean though and my comments certainly weren't intended as a slight. I don't think the offending bits were yours anyway. Orderinchaos 06:24, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Replacement of 'Triple J' with 'triple j' throughout article and talk page
I have just reverted these changes for many reasons: -- Chuq (talk) 10:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Although Triple J just uses the lowercase style "triple j" in its current publicity material (website, logo, etc), it has been "Triple J" in the past.
 * The style "Triple J" is currently used by people outside the station
 * The bulk replace broke some images, some links, and probably (though I didn't test them) interwiki links as well..
 * The bulk replace changed peoples comments on the talk page - fair enough, it was only the case - but still shouldn't change others comments.
 * According to the edit summary it was done by someone employed at the station (as an anon user)

Raw Comedy Awards
RCA missing from Comedy section! Does anyone have any contact with anyone official at triple j? I'd be willing to create an Award stub (with link to this page, of course) for the Raw Comedy Award if I could get some reliable info on it. (I'm not getting anything useful by Googling.)--Tyranny Sue (talk) 04:35, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

1990 events
I listened to JJ in Canberra in the 80s, it was great, Helen Razor (her band was great too) etc..

When it went national it was fantastic in Melbourne.

At the time in 1990 when Fuck tha Police induced mass firings there followed several days of dreary songs from upper management who stood in for DJs, followed by the noticeable introduction of strong playlisting. For me, this marked the end of a youth-run station as such.

Some of the information about the sackings should be incorporated in the article. I found this online description of the sackings from Tracy Hutchinson, someone very much in the spot:



"‘Fuck Tha Police’ – how I remember the JJJ sackings By mid 1990 the old 2JJJ had become a fully-fledged national network and where we’d previously sailed under the radar with some of the more colourful language contained in the music we sometimes played suddenly we were in the national spotlight. In particular NWA’s ‘Fuck Tha Police’ came in for some criticism by parliamentarians in Adelaide and the West Australian police service who claimed the song incited racial tension. (WA at that time had the highest black deaths in custody rate in the country). They pressured ABC management to ban the song and in an unprecedented and extremely unpopular move station management introduced a censorship policy and banned us from playing the song. We were outraged and in response the station’s daily current affairs program, The Drum, prepared a story on the use of the word ‘fuck’ in the modern vernacular and included just over 20 seconds of the song in the produced story. JJJ management got wind of it and instructed the EP, Nick Franklin, not to play it. He refused to acquiesce, played the piece and was suspended without pay on the spot. The rest of us went on strike but not before we’d rigged up a loop of Heaven 17’s ‘We Don’t Need This Fascist Groove Thing’, which played for sometime before management twigged what was going on. Those were the days…

Sadly our fiesty, youthful defiance was rewarded by each of the fulltime announcers involved in strike action over ‘Fuck Tha Police’ losing our jobs. I chose to resign over the issue before my on-air colleagues, the likes of Tim Ritchie, Tony Biggs, Gayle Austin and Amanda Collinge, were replaced by a new regime of broadcasters. Despite a huge protest rally over our ‘sacking’, that was held at Sydney Town Hall and attended by thousands listeners, we were out on our ear."

Star A Star (talk) 03:27, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

New Dig JJ Frequency
How about some info on how to find the JJ broadcast channel? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.181.71.174 (talk) 17:58, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Taylor Swift
If the content about the Taylor Swift controversy belongs on Wikipedia, it's at the specific Triple J Hottest 100 article, not here. —sroc &#x1F4AC; 13:30, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I've added a Talk item to the Hottest 100 page—hopefully copyeditors can put aside their personal musical tastes, as legal professionals have even spoken to the media about the potential ramifications on the terms and conditions of the poll as part of the global media response that has arisen. Additionally, aspects of Australian culture that have surfaced because of the campaign have been discussed. Regards,--Soulparadox (talk) 04:51, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * It's a two week campaign which will have been forgotten about a week from now. It deserves a paragraph in the Triple J Hottest 100 article, perhaps as part of a section on general commercial music influence on the Hottest 100. As I said on that article, just because something is recent doesn't make it more important.  Keep track of  any useful sources on the talk page, of course. -- Chuq (talk) 10:17, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
 * I am happy to keep track of it. By the way, the recent time frame is not the issue, but rather the magnitude of the discussion. If the eventual response is a change to the terms and conditions, I think that is notable. I also think the level of non-sensationalist discussion is notable—aside from the media "buzz". Regards,

Programming history
Is the Programming history section ( by Guyinsydney) a good idea? Is this sort of thing common in other radio ststion articles? Remember, Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. —sroc &#x1F4AC; 15:08, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050620151152/http://conferences.arts.usyd.edu.au/viewpaper.php?id=118&print=1&cf=3 to http://conferences.arts.usyd.edu.au/viewpaper.php?id=118&print=1&cf=3

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"The Breakfast Show (Triple J)" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect The Breakfast Show (Triple J). The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 June 9 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 08:06, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Sister stations
There doesn't seem to be a consistent section or method for adding info about sister stations. Double J is mentioned at it's point in the "history" section and has it's own article. Unearthed is just a note in the Unearthed section, it seems its dedicated article was deleted. Hottest I've just added as a note in the Hottest 100 section for now. Does anyone else have a preference? -- Chuq (talk) 12:40, 18 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Hey @Chuq! Personally I don't see the need for such a section. By this logic one may assume Double J also needs a section of sister stations as there is no 'central' station. See the BBC Radio 1 infobox – it lists its sister stations as the stations also branded under BBC Radio 1, and not BBC Radio 2, BBC Radio 3, etc. Thus maybe a list of the four stations may work well as a list on the ABC page instead?
 * The Hottest station can be written about under the Hottest 100 section and the Unearthed station can remain under the Unearthed initiative section. P.S. I'm in the process of writing a draft for an Unearthed article. Might publish it within the next week. Thanks and let me know what you think! Marcostev88 (talk) 10:41, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks @Marcostev88! Interesting comparison with BBC Radio 1 - although I'm not sure how they are structured, I note that article does have a section Online-only sister stations where it mentions them.  Also I'm not sure what you mean when you say as there is no 'central' station - I would think it's unambiguous that Triple J fits that role!
 * I ran into a similar issue when creating Wikidata items for each station - it doesn't allow items to refer to redirect articles (it treats them as if multiple items are pointing to one article).
 * I can extract a copy of the deleted Unearthed article if you like - might have some useful content in it? -- Chuq (talk) 23:26, 19 July 2023 (UTC)
 * I made the suggested updates to the ABC article. Also have put an old copy of Triple J Unearthed here - User:Chuq/old/Triple J Unearthed - in case it helps.  -- Chuq (talk) 04:18, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Hey @Chuq, yeah – after more thought I have to agree Triple J is the 'central' station. I was hesitant to admit Double J is a sister station as it stands on its own, but I can't look past the Triple J drum icon branding in all the station's logos, not to mention the 'Triple J' name in the Hottest and Unearthed stations. Therefore I'd say a section for the sister channels would work well. Sorry about the confusion!
 * Thank you for the link to the old Unearthed article! Marcostev88 (talk) 05:16, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * That's cool - no problem! -- Chuq (talk) 06:27, 20 July 2023 (UTC)

Capitalisation
Related to the immediate previous section.. with the new station using the capitalisation triple j Hottest, it's made some inconsistencies quite obvious. I scoured this page for earlier discussion. Hilariously I found a post where I reverted such a change over 15 years ago! Talk:Triple_J. Clearly they've been using "lower case" for a significant period now so I think it's time I gave in :)  The ABC Style Guide under the section "ABC branding" explains the capitalisation used. No-one agreed or disagreed back then .. anything changed? -- Chuq (talk) 07:02, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
 * No complaints.. so I'm gonna start. Hope I don't break anything! -- Chuq (talk) 03:33, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Wow... this is a big job! Things I've done:
 * Moved triple j, triple j Unearthed triple j magazine, triple j tv, List of triple j presenters to use the lowercase title, including adding or  where necessary;
 * Move relevant templates Template:triple j, Template:triple j Unearthed, etc. for the above.
 * Move talk pages for all of the above pages and templates
 * Updating content throughout all pages listed above to use new capitalisation, including links to other pages
 * Updated links in generic ABC or radio templates
 * Updating double redirects where I could find them
 * Updated Template:triple j so it's red :)
 * Reworded some sentences to not start with Triple j to avoid the capital issue (although have left some - assume leaving the capital 'T' is correct in these cases).
 * Things I haven't done (yet), am not sure about, or other unrelated things I've found need doing:
 * Any Hottest 100 related pages (a huge task)
 * Anything to do with categories (also a huge task)
 * Other triple j pages not mentioned above, such as Triple J's Impossible Music Festival
 * What to do at triple j - refer to it as Triple J before the style changed?
 * Found that triple j tv and triple j magazine are effectively defunct (thought they may have been but I wasn't sure) - have removed from templates where there's no connection, but pages need updating
 * Does Template:triple j Unearthed need to exist? No real content to navigate to.
 * I found List of programs broadcast by Triple J which has very few article-space incoming links and needs significant cleanup/sourcing.
 * Things to note if you want to help:
 * J Awards and Double J are still in capitals
 * Don't update image names (breaks images) or references
 * Look out for mistakes like breaking a redirect as I did here or just weird typos like I fixed here which indicated to me I need to have a break for a bit!
 * -- Chuq (talk) 06:14, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Good stuff @Chuq !!! All the progress so far is great. A few things from me: the Unearthed template definitely doesn't need to exist, that can be safely deleted. New red template looks great! I can get started on fixing the capitalisation on the most recent Hottest 100 articles – I'll do from 2017 onwards to begin with – and I'll work on the main Hottest 100 article too. Cheers! Marcostev88 (talk) 06:45, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh wow. This is quite the drastic change without even so much as using a requested move. It has site-wide ramifications imo. It pretty clearly fails MOS:TMCAPS at the first call. We don't use Adidas in lowercase. It does suck that you've done all this hard work only for it to likely be reverted, but I'm surprised no one else has called it out yet. We don't follow organisation-specific style guides either. Otherwise (as an example) the Australian Football League page would be littered with references to the Gold Coast SUNS and GWS GIANTS. Gibbsyspin 03:25, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Reliable secondary sources use the capitalized "Triple J"  , so the guideline at MOS:TMCAPS needs to be followed.   I urge you to self-revert these changes, as I can't see any good reason not to follow the guideline in this case. 162 etc. (talk) 21:10, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * There definitely is no agreed-upon stylisation of triple j. There are some equally-reliable secondary sources that use lowercase: SMH, Rolling Stone, RadioToday, MusicFeeds – The Music uses both stylisations in the same article. However I understand MOS:TMCAPS states if usage is mixed we should opt for the capitalised version.
 * I had gone and updated the stylisation on a dozen Hottest 100 articles, but if a final consensus is made on this matter, I will perform the suitable reverts on the pages I worked on. Marcostev88 (talk) 04:23, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Timing of change to lower case
This is odd - I thought the change to lower case was in the mid-00s - but according to this article, it's been the case (almost) forever? Herald Sun (screenshot due to paywall) I'm suspecting the source is wrong there.

I know their logo was stylised in lower case before the mid-00s but I didn't think it was typical style to refer to it in text like that, at that point. All the Trove articles I can find from the 1980s show it with initial capitals but thats what newspapers at the time would have done anyway. (those Trove articles are a great rabbit hole to go down for historic sources, btw!)

https://logos.fandom.com/wiki/Triple_J shows some variants. As an aside, there is one missing that I distinctly remember in the mid-late 90s (at the same time as #3, or between #3-#4), which used a lower case, sans-serif wide font. Oddly, it appears to have completely disappeared from the internet, apart from the wayback machine (which only goes as far back as 1999). -- Chuq (talk) 02:20, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 16 August 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Consensus that "Triple J" is preferable per MOS:TMCAPS and similar guidance. For consistency, I will also be moving the other affiliated articles identified by QuietHere in the discussion. (closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 14:10, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Triple j → Triple J – Page was unilaterally moved in July, apparently based on the station's own stylization of their name. However, third party sources do not use that capitalization consistently, as can be seen in the article, and I don't think this overcomes MOS:TMCAPS. If this move is approved, then be sure to remove lowercase title as well. QuietHere (talk &#124; contributions) 07:07, 16 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Strong support - as per MOS:TMCAPS, and this needs to be applied to all other Triple J-related articles which were moved or altered during this 'overhaul' last month. I have nothing against being bold, but I'm surprised the user went ahead with such wide-reaching changes without at least going through an RM process first. Gibbsyspin 08:36, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I also support moving all related pages. I didn't think to check what else they moved, but I now see at least Triple j Hottest 100, Triple j Hottest 100, 2017, Triple j Hottest 100, 2018, Triple j Hottest 100, 2019, Triple j Hottest 100 of the 2010s, Triple j Hottest 100, 2020, Triple j Hottest 100, 2021, Triple j Hottest 100, 2022, Triple j Hottest 100 of Like a Version, Triple j tv, Triple j Unearthed, and Triple j's One Night Stand that all will need moved as well. QuietHere (talk &#124; contributions) 08:59, 16 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Support. See discussion above.  The current lowercasing is the result of good-faith, yet misguided edits earlier this year by User:Chuq, which should all be reverted.  There was no consensus, and Wikipedia guidelines should be followed. 162 etc. (talk) 15:31, 16 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Comment: Sorry, I hadn't been active on WP for a couple of weeks so missed the above discussion. I'm surprised - I thought I was simply putting into action a change that had been requested/attempted before (See Talk:Triple_j and Talk:Triple_j) - and had not been opposed - but had not been done because it was a huge task and no-one was keen to put in the effort, and/or was aware of the templates to render the title in lowercase.
 * The final push for me was the introduction of the new station triple j Hottest which is styled as such, and made me investigate what the correct format was - I came across this paragraph on the official ABC Style Guide
 * "The national youth music service has no capitals unless starting a sentence: I grew up listening to triple j. Some sub-brands take a capital on their modifier: triple j Unearthed. Never lower case: Double J."
 * Which sealed it for me. When it was first raised 15 years ago I thought "It's a short term trend to use lower case" or "It's just how their logo looks, it's not how it's actually used in a sentence" but clearly it's not short term and the style guide quote convinced me. I can see that ABC's style guide being independent of triple j is a grey area.
 * So I'd like to see the previous points taken into consideration, by those voting. If after that the consensus is to move it back to Triple J, I'll help to revert the changes. -- Chuq (talk) 07:37, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I appreciate your good faith edits. The reality is that Wikipedia does not bow to various style guides of every international organisation, no matter how established they are. Company style guides, by their design, are internal. It doesn't matter to us if the ABC wants to style it like tRiPlE j, we still use sentence case unless there are extreme mitigating circumstances, which there are not in this case. There has to be an across-the-board standard, hence MOS:TMCAPS. In fact, the whole WP:MOS is worthwhile reading if you have the time. Alas, I still remain in support of the move. Gibbsyspin 11:19, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I think you may have misread the 2008 comment at Talk:Triple j. The person who commented was reacting to someone else's change and saying the article should use "Triple J". I support this RM per MOS:TM, MOS:TMCAPS, WP:TITLETM. Note that "TV" ordinarily uses capital letters, so Triple j tv should be Triple J TV. Since these are reverts of recent undiscussed moves, there should be a presumption that should they be reverted. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 21:02, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Moreover, when I checked the sources that appeared to have "triple j" in their headlines, I found that (at least) six of them had actually used "Triple J" and someone had distorted the titles in the Wikipedia citations. Please see this diff. Some sources could not be checked since they were dead links. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 21:26, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, the person who commented was me :) I reverted the change as I disagreed with the process (it broke a lot of images and templates, for example). I was referring to the fact that the change was attempted back means it's not a sudden thing. Branding changes over the years and I assumed they'd change back to Triple J a few years later. As it happens, they didn't. -- Chuq (talk) 01:51, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, yes, it was you! You're now arguing against your old self. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 04:20, 18 August 2023 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, I also haven't changed my mind and still support reverting all page moves for all the reasons listed above. QuietHere (talk &#124; contributions) 08:15, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Comment The Nom makes this statement: However, third party sources do not use that capitalization consistently. This is based on the sources cited in the article. There are very few independent sources cited that mention "tripple j" (however cased). Of these, the same outlets (eg The Guardian) are cited more than once. While the articles cited are different, they do not represent different editorial decisions. Also, the lowercase branding appears to be somewhat recent and consequently, more recent sources should be relied upon to determine the question. I am not convinced that the particularly narrow set of the cited sources is sufficiently broad enough to be a statistically representative sample to resolve what is essentially a statistical question. I would prefer better evidence. However, in the absence of such evidence, I might support "Tripple j" at the start of a sentence and "tripple j" in running prose. Cinderella157 (talk) 11:45, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. I'm a big fan of this manual of style being used in favor of branding decisions.~TPW 13:27, 24 August 2023 (UTC)