Talk:Triumph Group/Archive 1

Determining linking
Comment  How do we determine all of the articles (i.e. Triumph Engines) that redirect to "Triumph Group"?Jax 0677 (talk) 07:42, 21 November 2010 (UTC)


 * On the right side of the article page is a label that says "toolbox". Click on that and then on "What links here" and it will show all Wikipedia pages that link to this article - a very useful tool, indeed! - Ahunt (talk) 13:20, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Section headings
We probably don't need section headers for the subdivisions at this point, as they can be listed under the main divisions in sentence or list form. - BilCat (talk) 00:27, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * That would probably work better, or at least list the locations as article text rather than section headings. Need some prose to go under the headings! - Ahunt (talk) 00:31, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * This article has become ridiculous. I'm not sure whether there's is a policy that would recommend not having more section headings than there are words in the article, but there should be. Almost all of them should be eliminated. Justin W Smith talk/stalk 13:54, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Well let me see if I can combine some things there. - Ahunt (talk) 14:01, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, I am done. I didn't remove any text, just reorganized things a bit to make it more comprehensible. Basically I moved the stand-alone headings into a list. If details and refs can be found for this divisions then they can be moved back up into their own sections again. See what you think. - Ahunt (talk) 14:24, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Segments
I like what you have done Ahunt. I am now trying to move all of the companies under the four segments of Triumph Group, which I think will "section" the article: 1.1 Triumph Aerostructures 1.2 Triumph Aerospace Systems 1.3 Triumph Aftermarket Services 1.4 Corporate and Other --Jax 0677 (talk) 05:58, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll add more descriptions over time...--Jax 0677 (talk) 06:12, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
 * That sounds okay, I just wanted to reduce the number of headings and make it more readable in its present form. - Ahunt (talk) 13:54, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Sectioning
Comment  How do we put "Triumph Engines" under the "Divisions" section?Jax 0677 (talk) 07:43, 21 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Done! - Ahunt (talk) 13:20, 21 November 2010 (UTC)


 * Ahunt, I like what you are thinking, but now it looks like the paragraphs run together in some areas. Can we use dashes, bullets, or something to separate the city divisions from one another in some of the companies that have more than one location?--Jax 0677 (talk) 16:55, 7 December 2010 (UTC)
 * I tried making the multi-sections into lists instead, which uses bullets. See what you think of that approach. If you don't like it feel free to revert and try something else! - Ahunt (talk) 17:03, 7 December 2010 (UTC)

Is there a way to direct readers from TAS-Wichita to TAS-Newport News or to TAS-Seattle?
Is there a way to direct readers from TAS-Wichita to TAS-Newport News or to TAS-Seattle and vice versa?--Jax 0677 (talk) 20:22, 11 December 2010 (UTC)


 * Normally in an article you would just mention the connection in the article text without a link, such as "TAS-Seattle also produces these same parts" or similar. I am not sure it is needed to link within the page. If needed you can use an internal page link in the format - Ahunt (talk) 20:31, 11 December 2010 (UTC)


 * I have rewritten those sentences with links to redirect pages and then back this article to hopefully clarify the connection (hope I got it right?) and use internal pages links instead (in other words the links just navigate on the same page without going off-page to a redirect page and then back to the same page again). See what you think of that approach. - Ahunt (talk) 17:34, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Length
I made the note on length a hidden note. This article is currently 35 kb in size and Article size gives a recommendation of 32 kb, but is is far from a hard-and-fast rule. There are certainly longer articles than this. The biggest problem this article has right now is that it is pretty dull reading and needs some more controversies and such to make it more interesting. I can't think a company this big has nothing interestingly that has ever happened to it! - Ahunt (talk) 01:10, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

Attempts to add to History and Competitors page
It appears as if there was objection to my additions to the History and Competitors pages, inclusive of breaking the History section out into different decades. Without personal knowledge of the company history, I can not proceed any further on this section, unless I get suggestions on how to do so. These objections were also set forth on the NTN Corporation Wikipedia page--Jax 0677 (talk) 20:10, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Your addition of the history section was a direct copyright violation and was removed. Use the source as a reference, but do not copy it directly. The competitors section was unreferenced and therefore subjective and not encyclopaedic. --Biker Biker (talk) 09:10, 3 January 2011 (UTC)


 * I discussed this issue with "Ahunt", and he stated the following:


 * "Thanks for your note, I see you have been talking to the other editor on User talk:Biker Biker, too, which is good. I have carefully looked though the text he removed and the text he says it was copied from. Most of it doesn't seem to match or overlap much, although I did find some text that is pretty close. For instance you wrote: 'Fueled by unprecedented demand for airline capacity, Triumph Group posted a $9.7 million profit in 1996' and the cited article says "The group posted a profit of $9.7 million in 1996. This was fueled by unprecedented demand for airline capacity." Keep in mind that actual text is copyrighted but information is not, that means you can say the same things, but need to use different words to do it in. I would suggest you cite the answers.com article and rewrite your history section to eliminate any similar wording and then re-add it into the article again."


 * In addition to deleting the ENTIRE history (as opposed to the individual components that were too close), the number of locations and subsidiaries was deleted from the company statistics box for Triumph Group. Lastly, the software will often detect copyright violations within a matter of seconds.


 * I don't feel that the entire history, inclusive of the decade sections needed to be deleted.--Jax 0677 (talk) 16:31, 3 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Well I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. You had a lot of copy/paste and a lot of information that was just slightly reworded from the original. You can use information from other sources, but that information should be paraphrased - which means doing far more than a copy paste followed by a few minor word changes. I suggest you go off and read WP:COPYRIGHT, WP:COPYVIO, WP:CITE before you do any more editing. --Biker Biker (talk) 16:45, 3 January 2011 (UTC)


 * The burden of adding text that complies with WP's policies is on the contributor adding the material (Jax0677). I don't blame Biker for doing a wholesale revert if he didn't have time to go line by line through your contributions, and I have done the same thing in similar circumstances. Just follow Ahunt's advice in readding the material, including the infobox and subheading, and you should be fine. Just go back into the edit on the edit history page, and then rewrite the sections that need it. Note that the Wiki software detects text copyied verbatim from other sources, but that doesn't mean the text it does not remove may not be a copyright violation anyway. - BilCat (talk) 16:49, 3 January 2011 (UTC)