Talk:Trope

Moved talk page (11 December 2006)
"Metonymy--as in cause and effect" didn't seem right to me.

Metonymy is a slippery fish of a figure--it has different shades of meaning wherever you look--but it seems to me to generally mean substituting one word for something with which it is associated (the more loose version is metalepsis). Naming a cause by its effect would be one way to do this, but not the most common. Naming one thing by one of its attributes is perhaps a more familiar one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by username & date lost in history (talk • contribs)

Question about editing this page.
The page lists four types of tropes. I have a textbook that lists 8 additional types of tropes, examples of each, and explanations/definitions. Can I just add this on? There is no author, it's just a compilation of information for students. It would be useful to place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by username & date lost in history (talk • contribs)


 * In theory everything on Wikipedia is supposed to cite sources, but in reality that frequently is not done. List the textbook in References or Sources. Also, it would be best to do some quick research on the Net and add something from that.RickReinckens 17:31, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

"as in" being misused
In the examples section, we have stuff like:


 * metonymy as in association.
 * irony as in contraries.

This was evidently not written by a native English speaker, because we do not use "as in" in this manner. The entire section needs to be rewriten (hopefully with the additions mentioned above.) The examples should not only not abuse "as in" but should be a bit more accurate/informative. I don't find any of the words used after "as in" in these phrases to actually be very accurately descriptive of the words they refer to. S. McCandlish 23:54, 2006-02-19 (EST).

Split
This page needs to be split. We can't lump al of the different meanings of "trope" into one article. See Cantillation Mo-Al 21:12, 12 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think any of the sections are really long enough to warrant a split. If any of them get to be full fledged articles, we can split them out at that time.  -Smahoney 01:17, 13 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Well then trope as in cantillation should be removed, since it already has an article. Mo-Al 01:29, 13 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I think he means what needs to be done is that articles in which "trope" is already defined or used in should have content from this article merged to them. Trope -> Figure of speech; Trope -> Cantillation. The intro also needs to be changed to embrace a more general use of the term, rather than a more specific term concerning linguistics. mwazzap 06:17, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, the cantillation section should probably be merged into cantillation (considering that trop redirects to cantillation). Mo-Al 00:34, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Something about media trope
I have translated the English WP article conspiracy theory to Norwegian. It contains the term media trope which is becoming problematic since there seems to be few references to this term in Norwegian. Googling the English term yields some 350 hits. Would it be possible to see some discussion of this term in the current artcle? __meco 05:46, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Examples
How about some examples? That would make the article much more comprehensible to a non-specialist.

MattHucke(t) 17:48, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

A trope is a standard event or device to give the watcher (of a film, say,)a clue to what they are watching - so in a thriller a champagne cork would pop and someone would grab their gun. Or in a thriller there's be a full moon and a beatutiful blonde. In a romance there's be a crescent moon On wiki there's a list of comic/cartoon tropes which is very good.

Does this help? Ros (Has anyone got one for hollywood films or for drama? I'd be eternally grateful) 83.148.170.93 16:10, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * But is this page more of a disambiguation page? There should just be basic definitions for each type of a trope, and therefore each link to the type of each should give a more detailed description with the requested examples. Vince 23:07, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Merge Trope and Trope (disambiguation)
The trope article covers everything that is in the trope (disambiguation) and more -- though in far greater depth. Thus, what needs to happen one of three options. 1) The trope (disambiguation) page becomes a redirect to the more in depth trope page, 2) the trope page is greatly simplified, replaced into the content of the disambiguation page, and becomes a redirect page to the aforesaid disambig, 3) something creative that I haven't thought of. Another obvious element is that the status of the information on the trope page is contingent on the implementation of that information in the respective articles it corresponds to, i.e. whether that information needs to be held in the non-specific article trope... Incidentally, nothing links to the trope (disambiguation) page. mwazzap 06:45, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Support. This really needs to become a disambig page. All of the info here is (or should be) in the "Main article"s linked.  Each section that doesn't have such a link is short enough to be easily added into one of the embedded links.  Would you like to do the honors, or shall I?  :-) Mdotley 19:57, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, it looks like this has been done, and pretty well, as far as I can tell. I'm removing this from my watchlist, so if you want to comment to me, use my talk page. Mdotley 22:42, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Research request
It would be of much help to this article if someone with an Oxford dictionary (and/or other reference book) traced the etymology of each of the various uses of the word, particularly keeping watch for overlaps. mwazzap 06:44, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Oxford Defintions
Per the above request:

1. Rhet. A figure of speech which consists in the use of a word or phrase in a sense other than that which is proper to it; also, in casual use, a figure of speech; figurative language. – ''1533 TINDALE Supper of Lord Cv, If ye be so sworne to the litteral sense in this matter, that ye will not in these wordes of Christe, Thys is my bodye, &c., admitte in so playne a speache anye troope. 1573 TUSSER Husb. xxviii. (1878) 68 Christmas is onely a figure or trope. a1638 MEDE Wks. (1672) 349 That usual Trope of Scripture, by a part, or that which is more notable or obvious in any kind or rank of things, to imply the rest. 1693 DRYDEN Juvenal (1697) p. liii, Where the Trope is far fetch'd, and hard, 'tis fit for nothing but to puzzle the Understanding. 1779 SHERIDAN Critic I. i, Your occasional tropes and flowers suit the general coarseness of your stile, as tambour sprigs would a ground of linsey~wolsey. 1783 BLAIR Lect. Rhetoric xiv. I. 275 Tropes..consist in a word's being employed to signify something that is different from its original and primitive meaning; so that if you alter the word, you destroy the Figure. 1837 MACAULAY Ess., Bacon (1887) 428 Irony is one of the four primary tropes. 1876 GLADSTONE Homeric Synchr. 262 To treat as a poetical trope this idea of kings as god-born or god-reared. 1888 BRYCE Amer. C. III. cxi. 597 [American] rhetoric is Rhodian rather than Attic, overloaded with tropes and figures. attrib. 1799 H. MORE Fem. Educ. (ed. 4) I. x. 221 By this negligence in the just application of words, we shall be..much misled by these trope and figure ladies.''

2. In Gregorian Music, A short distinctive cadence at the close of a melody. Obs. – ''1603 HOLLAND Plutarch's Mor. 1358 To let passe therefore the five positures of the Tetrachords, as also the first five tones, tropes, changes, notes or harmonies. 1605 BACON Adv. Learn. II. v. §3 Is not the trope of music, to avoid or slide from the close or cadence, common with the trope of rhetoric of deceiving expectation? 1626 Sylva §113.''

3. [= Gr. .] The ‘turning’ of the sun at the tropic; also = TROPIC A. 2. Obs. rare. – ''1677 GALE Crt. Gentiles II. IV. 258 The Sun has..its annual Tropes and Vicissitudes, what they call Solstices, whereby it is nearer to or remoter from us. 1735 H. BROOKE Univ. Beauty IV. 169 Now 'thwart the trope, or zone antartic steer.''

4. Logic. = MOOD n.2 1. Obs. rare. – ''1656 STANLEY Hist. Philos. VIII. (1701) 315/1 Of Moods or Tropes there are two kinds, one of Indemonstrables,..the other of Demonstrables.''

5. In the Western Church, A phrase, sentence, or verse introduced as an embellishment into some part of the text of the mass or of the breviary office that is sung by the choir. (Tropes were discontinued at the revision of the missal under Pope Pius V in the 16th cent.) – ''1846 W. MASKELL Mon. Rit. I. p. xxxvii, The Tropes..were..sung either before or after the Introit and Hymns in the service of the Mass. 1853 ROCK Ch. of Fathers IV. xi. 21 A..practice..had..grown up..in the north and western quarters of Christendom..of weaving certain pious sentences, called by the Romans ‘festive praises’, by the Franks ‘tropes’, between the words of the psalm in the introit at mass. 1894 W. H. FRERE Winchester Troper p. ix, ‘Trope’..is the regular word to describe additions to the Introit, Offertory and Communion, and is also more rarely found in connection with the Ite missa est or Benedicamus at the close of Mass.''

6. In the Moravian Church, One of the three divisions forming the ‘Unity of the Brethren’. – ''[1780 B. LA TROBE tr. Cranz's Hist. Brethren 355 In..1749..the administration of the Reformed tropus in the Unity of the Brethren was tendered to, and accepted by, the Bishop of Sodor and Man, Thomas Wilson.] 1809 BOGUE & BENNET Hist. Dissenters (1833) II. i. 64 The three different classes of persons who compose the Unity, bear among the brethren the name of tropes or tropuses.''

7. In Greek Philosophy: see quots. – ''1866 FERRIER Grk. Philos. I. xv. 467 Of these tropes or Sceptical arguments Sextus enumerates ten. 1910 R. D. HICKS Stoic & Epicurean 376 Ænesidemus undertook to arrange the whole material at the disposal of the Sceptic in his contention against the dogmatic position under ten heads or tropes. The word trope properly denotes procedure; the ten tropes were intended to contain the means of refuting dogmatism in all possible forms, and to provide directions for stating every line of available argument which could lead to negative conclusions and paralyse assent.''

8. Geom. The reciprocal of a node on a curve or surface; in different cases, a multiple tangent or tangent plane, or a plane or developable surface touching the given surface in a particular way. – ''1869 CAYLEY Math. Papers VI. 330 Using ‘trope’ as the reciprocal term to node. 1875 [see TROPAL].''

JazzyGroove 04:27, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Above entries from talk page, moved here by Mo-Al at 00:36, 11 December 2006

c.f. cliché please
please make a comparison to cliché, thanks 41.204.73.142 (talk) 19:50, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

January 2013 cleanup
I added the template:disambiguation cleanup and started fixing some issues. For more info see MOS:DAB. --Trofobi (talk) 12:40, 21 January 2013 (UTC)