Talk:Trump National Golf Club, Los Angeles/Archive 1

Date and language format
This is an article about a golf course located in the U.S., design and built by Americans, i.e. it has strong U.S. ties.

Per WP:STRONGNAT: "Articles on topics with strong ties to a particular English-speaking country should generally use the more common date format for that nation."

Per WP:TIES: "An article on a topic that has strong ties to a particular English-speaking nation should use the English of that nation."

To me, that says use the U.S. date style (mdy) and American English. Tewapack (talk) 21:06, 20 September 2011 (UTC)


 * I checked WP:TIES again and one of the examples was Usain Bolt, a sprinter. I guess if he qualifies for "strong national ties", The Donald does too. The other examples were:


 * Great Fire of London (British English)
 * American Civil War (American English)
 * Institutions of the European Union (British or Irish English)
 * Australian Defence Force (Australian English)
 * Vancouver, B.C. (Canadian English)
 * all of which were an important part of each nation's history. But I hadn't noticed the last example, i.e. the article of Usain Bolt, who is an example of a person with strong ties to his country. So Trump and by extension the Golf Course he built are arguably in a similar category. Dr.K. λogosπraxis 21:23, 20 September 2011 (UTC)

Landslide Caused by Sewer Leakage or Increased Irrigation?
The article states "It is believed that fluid discharge from the sewer line, probably leaking before the slide, acted as a lubricant on the thin underlying layer of bentonite, which became saturated with liquid sewage in turn, and this acted as a facilitator for the stratified geological accumulations to slide relative to each other." The source cited is source 7, which states "Many believe that fluid from a leak in this sewer line may have flowed along and saturated the thin layer of betonite, triggering the massive landslide". This is an opinion.

LACSD's position was that the landslide was caused by increased weight from water added to the slide area during the golf course's irrigation activities. I do not know the real reason, but the issue was in litigation. LACSD contends that it's sewer line was is good condition and that the exfiltration from the sewer line could not have caused the landslide. I did a quick search for a record of the civil case and did not find anything (LA county's court records before 2005 are not easily accessible). However I did find that Nimyo & Moore did the forensic evaluation of the site. Nimyo & Moore's website indicates that they evaluated many potential causes of the slide (including sewer leakage and irrigation), but does not state their conclusions. Another possible source for geological information on the site is Cotton, Shires, & Associates. However, I doubt any reports generated by these firms are available to the public. Does anyone know the results of this litigation? I seem to recall that LACSD won the civil case against it and that increased irrigation was the major cause of the slide (I did find a blogspot that indicated this was the case, but I don't trust blogs to be accurate - http://wncsos.blogspot.com/2011/01/landslide-concerns-cliffs-at-high.html). Also, in another wikipedia article about Portuguese Bend, it states that "Geologists associate the onset of slip to irrigation, installation of pools and septic tanks that increased ground water levels".

In summary, does anyone know of additional sources to confirm the cause of the landslide? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lt 461 (talk • contribs) 02:49, 28 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Good points. I haven't seen any other sources referring to anything other than the sewer leakage. The source I provided is reliable because it is an engineering firm. Finally, even for an engineering firm, what they say is their opinion. But this is true for everything alse as well. When an air accident happens the investigation is done by the NTSB, then they publish their opinion, an educated opinion, but opinion nonetheless. Having said that, if you find another reliable source stating another valid opinion we can surely include it. Thanks. Dr.K. λogosπraxis  03:13, 28 September 2011 (UTC)


 * Increased irrigation had absolutely nothing to do with the landslide. The suspected causes were: (1) Leakage from a cracked LA County sewer pipe; (2) Punctures in the lake lining in the water feature on the 5th hole; and/or (3) Vibration from grading activities.  No definitive cause was ever determined although various forensic testing, which included sending a camera down the sewer line, revealed that it was cracked.  Additionally, LASCD never prevailed in any civil case against Ocean Trails Golf Club LP (the owner of the golf course at the time of the landslide) related to the landslide or anything else. Adzuckerman (talk) 18:38, 15 September 2012 (UTC)