Talk:Tsukihime

Removing copyright infringement links
See the discussion at Talk:Fate/stay night and Wikipedia talk:External links, and also the policy at External links for why these links to Mirror-Moon should NOT be used. If you want to reference this info, find somewhere else that does not distribute illegal content. Also see a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Citing sources.--  十  八  00:02, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Translated H-game category
I don't fucking care whether the translation is authorized, a copyright violation or whatever. It exists so don't be anal about it. --S ABER E XCALIBUR! 13:13, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't belong in the cat. And lose the attitude. AnmaFinotera (talk) 13:18, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * So don't call me a vandal and don't shove irrelevant warning templates about copyvio up my talk page. Yell into a forest and it'll yell back at you. Anyway. You've just edited the category description to suit your argument, which is foul play and gaming the system. --S ABER E XCALIBUR! 13:22, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I edited the category description to clarify the existing stance by the Anime and Manga project. You are the only one arguing that fan-translated games qualify and you give no policy, guidelines, nor consensus to back it up. I'm not the only one to revert your addition of this category to pages. AnmaFinotera (talk) 13:25, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Um what, this is the only place where I've (re)-added it, and you're the only one (yet) who has reverted it. You're mistaking me for someone else. I base my argument on basic human logic, there is a 100% complete translation of Tsukihime to English. It's that simple. You're talking about fuzzy would-be consensus elsewhere but cite no specifics, how am I supposed to have that convince me? I'm at least supporting my edits with reasoning as to why I make them. --S ABER E XCALIBUR! 13:28, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Tsukihime's been translated. The cat isn't Category: Officially English-translated eroge. Voretus (talk) 07:53, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * See the discussion in the project concerning renaming the category. AnmaFinotera (talk) 08:01, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Merge Tsukihime, Lunar Legend
Per WP:MOS-AM, I have tagged the article to have Tsukihime, Lunar Legend merged back into this article. Neither the anime nor the manga seem significantly different, and the TLL article points almost entirely to this article and its subarticle, with just a standalone episode list and a short manga paragraph. It seems it could be merged here very easily. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 23:22, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree. The manga basically follows one possible plotline from the game with a few elements from others. じん    ない   23:25, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge completed. じん    ない   21:12, 17 January 2009 (UTC)


 * I try to make a statement about that there are some differences in how events and characters are shown in the anime (without going into detail), but it is remove from the page. As far as I know, the anime seems to steam some negative review from fan communities in several countries (China, Taiwan, Japan, Korea etc.) and is significant issues between various Dojin groups and Type-Moon themselves (Natsu make a statement in one of the New Type magazine I read saying that the anime derived from his idea and theme....or is it in Character Materials? Can't remember clearly.):
 * I know this has a potential of original research, but seeing that the "Promotion and Reception" section on characters page are primely base on the anime without crediting the visual novel made me worry the confusion this might create to people new to this topic.
 * Also, it seems like quite a few character lost their articles, and I wonder why? There are quite a few anime/menga series on wikipeida that got tons of characters who had there own articles, so I will like to hear about what policy has being bring upon such decission. As far as I care, Ciel deserved her own articles as she is quite significant in the multiple story mode in the game and plays an instrumental part in the anime. Not to mention that her characteristic had made influence upon another series: Higurashi, due to the agreement between Dojin artist.
 * If my commence shown my lack of knowledge to wikipedia policy, please direct me to those policy so I can learn about them.
 * Thanks.

Marlon unknown (talk) 00:59, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The number of differances can be summed up in a paragraph or two. They follow the same basic setup. Per both the WP:WikiProject Anime and Manga and WP:WikiProject Video Games if they are that similar then they should be in 1 article and differences noted in their section. As for the character articles, those had no real-world impact. They need decent at least some of the following: development, reception, merchandising, legacy (outside the company's franchise), etc. They were all plot which is what Wikipedia is against. じん  ない  15:00, 31 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the information. It helps clear things out for me. (I'm not really into making a page anyway.)

However, as I mention above regarding Ciel's possible appearance in the Higurashi no Naku Koro ni franchise. Is that count as an outside influence of a sort? (I notice your name too....)
 * Also, consider Sion is supposed to be a main character of the Melty Blood. It seem unfitted to put her under "List of Tsukihime characters." After all she never shows up in the Tsukihime anyway. It also seems like Roa's page lack any of the information you mention above.... I don't feel like deleting it, but it certainly wont served it right since he is one of the least merchandised character out of most Type-Moon characters. (Ciel, Akiha, Hisui and Kohaku are regular in many art book Type-Moon released, but Roa is not.)
 * Last, as I mention above regarding the "Promotion and Reception" information on character pages did not really specified weather the review is base on menga, anime, or visual novel. This can really lead to confusion in many ways and should be address on. (I'm not familiar with IGN, so I can't really help on it.)

Thanks again for answering my question. 35.11.212.61 (talk) 15:33, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * To be notable per Wikipedia standards you have to have 2 reliable secondary sources. That means 2 people reviewing it, 2 mentions in a newscast, 2 people doing academic research on it, 2 appearances in another company's franchise. Both must be independent of each other as well. That's just to barely make it notable and for character articles probably more would need to be had. じん  ない  22:36, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Im no sure whats going on here, but the anime and the game has very large differences. Anyone who has played the game and watched the anime should know.


 * Im not sure whats going on here, but the anime and the game has very large differences. Anyone who has played the game and watched the anime should know. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.65.245.3 (talk) 12:02, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Im not sure whats going on here, but the anime and the game has very large differences. Anyone who has played the game and watched the anime should know.

Fate
This series actually crosses over with the Fate series through one of the characters, shouldn't this be mentioned in he article? Tyciol (talk) 05:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * There is no crossover, the series is in a parrallel, but very similar, world to FATE. じん    ない   09:42, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Seems to be a common thing with this writer having alot of parallel running stories, eg Kara no Kyōkai has a Shiki (female) character with the same ability, and the two magi from both stories are apparently sisters... ADCK (talk) 12:44, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Its debatable whether the Fate and Tsukihime take place in the same world, but im fairly certain the consensus is that they do take place in the same world. Kara no Kyoukai also seems to take place in the same world. The concepts used are the same and certain characters have links to each other, e.g. Aozaki Touko/Aoko. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.65.245.3 (talk) 12:04, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Plus Disc
The expansion has little unique content and fails notability as it really hasn't had much independent reliable commentary on it nor any unique development. Other visual novels like Popotan. 陣 内 Jinnai 05:03, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Its a fandisc with some bonus content and stories. What are you expecting? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.65.245.3 (talk) 12:06, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

Kagetsu Tohya
Kagetsu Tohya has a bit more substance than Plus Disc had. However I don't know of any reliable source that has reviewed it seperatly and its not even listed as a true sequal. Before I merge it, I'm putting it up for discussion. 陣 内 Jinnai 01:58, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Uhh... why merge? Two different games. Kagetsu Tohya has its own storylines and is a sequel. Here's some more information on it: [url=http://www2.ocn.ne.jp/~typemoon/kagetsu/index.htm]Link to Moonlit World[/url] Amatsu-Mikabushi (talk) 03:33, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

And further more, no one has even mentioned the Plus-Disc on this page. I'm going to dedicate a section to it. Sheesh, if you're going to merge, at least put in some information. Amatsu-Mikabushi (talk) 22:47, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Being a seperate game is not a free pass to a seperate article. The article needs to pass WP:GNG still and they cannot. It would be liked under a subsection. See Popotan for its subsequent releases. Also, KT has never been confirmed as a sequal. It's more of a fan-disc. 陣 内 Jinnai 23:28, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

It is made by Type-Moon, and some of the characters are in Melty Blood. Added to that, it is a relatively big visual novel. (In size, not popularity.) Information on the game itself warrants its own page, due to its size. If we added a section on the whole damn thing here, we'd have a very large section devoted to it, and the list of characters would increase dramatically. Amatsu-Mikabushi (talk) 22:57, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * WP:WAF states also it doesn't. Size alone doesn't matter. We aren't making articles on plot. That's what fan wikis are for. Yes, we need some basic plot info, but blow-by-blow details are not what we are after and many people don't want (hell even some people think what little we have in our quality is spolierific). Characters can have their own list article, if they are non-trivial: (one-two scenes, non-generic, play some kind of important role to the plot beyond just being "there" that the lack of them would cause the reader to miss important details.
 * Because KT isn't as popular and widely reviewed by RSes is exactly why it needs to be merged. You are free to copy the info to a wikia (making certain to cite it came from wikiepedia). 陣 内 Jinnai 23:15, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Gah, fine. At least keep the image for the game cover, though. Amatsu-Mikabushi (talk) 23:19, 6 December 2009 (UTC)
 * That may be even harder to justify are copyright restrictions are very strict. Most of the policies and guidelines are decided by users, so if you feel strongly enough, go to those places as well as WP:VG to argue to your point. However for images that's a top-down one because of legal issues. If KT has signfigantly different artwork from Tsukihime, then that's different because that is a rationale for reasons for having another image. It may still fine even with that, but i'm just saying i can't keep it just because you ask, there would have to be justification for keeping it.
 * KT and plus-disc could have their own sections here, but the level of detail should be about the same amount as plot for the main game. 陣 内 Jinnai 23:25, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

As its been some time and no objections other than Amatsu-Mikabushi, which I've address I'll likely be merging the page sometime in the current (no RL incidents barring it). 陣 内 Jinnai 23:23, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Upon reading all this I have to say that I disagree on merging Kagetsu Tohya into Tsukihime. It's like suggesting to merge Melty Blood into Tsukihime; the differences are simply too great. I would agree on a section referring to the sequel, but not the whole article. Kagetsu Tohya should remain in its own separate page, independent from Tsukihime. VR.Moose (talk) 16:33, 30 April 2010 (UTC)
 * KT fails WP:GNG on its own and it likely always will. It is not really a stand alone title either. It is clearly based on Tsukihime and therefore if it cannot pass WP:N it should and will get merged unless suddenly those sources appear, which is nigh improbable. 陣 内 Jinnai 08:22, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Kagetsu Tohya is different enough from Tsukihime to be in its own separate article. It's not "Tsukihime +" or "Tsukihime extentended edition", etc. Lame examples, yes, but the point is that its not something like the examples I said above. Kagetsu Tohya is its OWN story and is DIFFERENT from Tsukihime. If you are to do such a thing then you might as well merge Melty Blood too. They are both basically the same in terms of difference from Tsukihime. I don't understand why you want to merge it so badly, its just fine in it's own article as it already is. No? VR.Moose (talk) 17:18, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Why would KT get deleted? It's fine as it is in it's own page. KT is different from Tsukihime. It does not belong merged with Tsukihime. Kagetsu Tohya is a sequel and is it's own game. Just like Melty Blood, it's not part of Tsukihime. Therefore should not be merged with Tsukihime.

If you guys are going to delete it, you should do something with it before you do so. So until that happens, Kagetsu Tohya should stay. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.157.138.205 (talk) 22:16, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Review
review. --Gabriel Yuji (talk) 05:39, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://archive.is/20120716103240/http://uk.gamespot.com/ps2/action/meltybloodactcadenza/news.html?sid=6144839&om_act=convert&om_clk=newsfeatures&tag=newsfeatures;title;2 to http://uk.gamespot.com/ps2/action/meltybloodactcadenza/news.html?sid=6144839&om_act=convert&om_clk=newsfeatures&tag=newsfeatures%3Btitle%3B2

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The character section is bloated and filled with misinformation
The character section is excessively large (1500/4000 words on the article). It seems to go against WP:VGSCOPE (Inappropriate content: Lists of characters lacking secondary sourcing), WP:UNIVERSE (particularly bad here), WP:PLOT and WP:FAN, uses bad fan translations of terminology, and is completely unsourced with loads of factual errors (the character section outside of "remake timeline exclusives" is presented based on the original version and not the remake, but Ciel's age when possessed by Roa is taken from the remake version), bad fan translations of terminology, presenting such bad fan translations as official ("in English, SHIKI's name is written in all-caps"), and outright misinformation that somebody made up (Noel's entire profile). The whole section is so problematic I deemed it appropriate to remove it entirely, but since someone restored it I figured I would point out the problems here. At the very least I think all supporting characters should be removed entirely, and the main character profiles should be rewritten to be more succinct, and if nobody is willing to do that then the whole section ought to be removed. Finally, the only reasoning given for the section being restored was "it's not that long compared to other such lists, and is a standard feature of such artciles" but I do not see how "other articles, which also go against Wikipedia guidelines, are worse" is any form of justification here. 2404:2D00:5000:841:5C9B:A0FA:A047:3541 (talk) 04:45, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Since there have been no objections I am cleaning up the character section. 2404:2D00:5000:841:8CD7:6427:A34C:5D4B (talk) 10:28, 22 September 2021 (UTC)

I've reverted one change (Shiki back to SHIKI) over WP:COMMONNAME. Changing it because it's from a "bad fan translation" isn't a valid reason, it's what he's primarily known as in English. Furthermore, his name has sometimes been written using katakana in official sources to distinguish him from his brother, and typical translation convention for native Japanese words/names written in katakana is to write them in all-caps. PolarManne (talk) 14:13, 1 October 2021 (UTC)

Gameplay section is problematic
I want to point out how the gameplay section is riddled with issues: Unsourced opinions ("film noir atmosphere", "requires little interaction "), unsourced questionable statements being passed as fact ("Changes that affect Shiki's opinion on the characters and heroines usually change the direction of the story drastically"), and bizarre stuff like "Near-Side routes (as in "near-moon")" - What is this even trying to say? I'm going to remove the problematic parts but wanted to list the problems here first just in case someone decides to revert my edits without bothering to see if they were warranted. 2404:2D00:5000:841:5C9B:A0FA:A047:3541 (talk) 04:28, 20 September 2021 (UTC)