Talk:Tuckahoes and Cohees

Untitled
This article was created Jun 16 2007 in hopes of clearing up many genealogist's errors in understanding the terms tuckahoe and cohee. I welcome all comments and discussion to add to or correct this article Gwyncann 19:13, 16 June 2007 (UTC) Lee Mathers

I have nominated the article "Tuckahoe tribe" for deletion. This article reflects a long history of speculation and ignorance of the cultural terms tuckahoe-cohee, when they appear in family histories of uninformed and amateur genealogists. Having gone through an identical sequence of confusion, speculation and hypothesis, and later research, and documentation, I believe that all references to an American Indian tribe named Tuckahoe are in error and such error should not be forwarded to the public supported by a Wikipedia article.

Should documented research prove otherwise, then a new article should be posted, properly documented and verified. Gwyncann 18:37, 23 June 2007 (UTC)


 * This article is a good candidate for deletion. The original author never provided any references, and none have been added in the interim. Jon Jonasson (talk) 16:41, 9 November 2008 (UTC)


 * As the original author of this article, I have been happy with the discussion and modification of this article over the last 18 months; and believe this article provides a good understanding of obscure and obsolete cultural terminology. Additional references could be obtained from old magazines and newspapers, but would involve new research, which is specifically prohibited by Wikipedia. Gwyncann 11:51, 25 December 2008 (UTC) Lee Mathers  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.184.144.163 (talk)

Bias much?
"With the philosophical arguments for the "mutual benefits" of slavery as a positive "good" for both master and slave revealed as specious and racist hypocrisy, the morality for the tuckahoe culture as the foundation for the governing class of Virginia and the Carolinas disintegrated."

First of all, this sentence is somewhat tangential for the article. Secondly, if I didn't know better, I'd say it was written by a nineteenth-century abolitionist. Sure, slavery was racist, but so was free-soil abolitionism. No need to denounce it as from the pulpit. I have removed the offending passage; if someone wants to add a more neutral explanation of the collapse of moral arguments for slavery, be my guest, but personally I think it unnecessary. Greensleaves (talk) 10:51, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

As the original contributor of this article, I concur with the deletion of the above sentence as argumentative and a bit tangential to the description of the terms tuckahoe and cohee. Lee Mathers Gwyncann (talk) 17:04, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Tuckahoe
The second paragraph refers to "tuckahoe" as a term shown on John Smith's Map of Virginia. The word "tuckahoe" first appears on a map drawn by Captain John Smith in 1612." I believe this is incorrectly stated.  Smith refers to "Tochawhoughe" in the text of his "Historie of Virginia" published in 1612.  The map referred to in the text accompanied this work. above.

Smith wrote:

"The chiefe roote they have for foode is called Tockawhoughe. It groweth like a flagge in low muddy freshes." Arber, 1895.

"Tochawhoghe" is commonly rendered "tuckahoe" by later writers. I am unable to find either term used on Smith's map. The most likely place it would be found on the map is in the area of "the Falls" of James River, near the village of Powhattan. A stream in that area is called "Tuckahoe", and was so called by at least 1695 when it appears as a boundary in land patents. Smith's map shows no stream in this area. It seems likely that "tuckahoe creek" was named for the plant "tuckahoe" now better known as "arrow arum" or arrow root. I would presume that arrow root, common in freshwater marshes throughout the east coast, grew in particular abundance on Tuckahoe Creek, and that the creek was named for the presence of this species.

Foote, which is cited in this article, notes that the term "tuckahoe" as used for the cultural group, is derived from a creek by that name in eastern Virginia. He was most likely referring to Tuckahoe Creek on the Goochland Henrico border, near Richmond. The plantation of William Randolph, a prominent member of Virginia's Plantation aristocracy (and certainly a "tuckahoe" as the term is used in this article) was located in this same area, on Tuckahoe Creek. Quolla6 (talk) 14:40, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Tuckahoe/Cohee Cultural Comparison
Arguably nearly every item on the list is incorrect- You link the Calvinist/Swiss Lutheran and Reformed/German churches together but separate the Presbyterian and Congregationalist, which are Calvinist, while the Lutherans are not. Most of these churches are not usually considered evangelical. You separate Anglican and Episcopal and use the term non-evangelical which is not in common usage. You say working class english before that dialect existed. Jefferson from the hills fits few of the cohee traits. Both George Thomas and Robert E Lee were relatively poor. To say that Andrew Jackson and James Polk were Northern Democrats is wrong. I think this whole section should go- unless a decent academic source can be located.Nitpyck (talk) 05:09, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

-- Original article contributer here. Over the years, many have added and expanded the comparison table. This is especially evident in adding to and elaborating the religious differences between coohee and tuckahoe. The only difference given in the sources referenced are between evangelical and non-evangelical conferences -- and indeed it would appear that this is only for conferences in Britain (Upper class Catholic and Anglicans were predominately tuckahoe, while lower class(Irish)catholic and British Presbyterian (and Congregationalists and most Methodist) would probably consider themselves cohee. For the German, most if not all would consider themselves cohee if on the western frontier, whether low or high German.  I encourage Nitpyck to make necessary corrections.  As to the economic status of individual persons -- tuckahoe aristocrats remained tuckahoe whether or not they succeeded in the economic competition of the times; same for cohees.  Lee Mathers; gwyncann.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.158.241.110 (talk) 23:51, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
 * This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
 * There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
 * It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
 * In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 00:38, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Proposal: Move to "Tuckahoe and Cohee"
The use of a hyphen suggests that "Tuckahoe-Cohee" refers to a single ethnic group, instead of to two more-or-less opposing groups. This is reflected on Wikipedia's Tuckahoe disambiguation page:


 * Tuckahoe may also refer to Tuckahoe-Cohee, an early colonial American cultural sub-group in Virginia and the Carolinas.

I therefore propose that this article be moved to the title, "Tuckahoe and Cohee", and that the disambiguation page be corrected accordingly. J. D. Crutchfield &#124; Talk 22:32, 6 November 2014 (UTC)


 * The requested move has been made (with help from an admin after I made the mistake of starting the move from this talk page). -- ℜ ob C. alias ALAROB 19:04, 2 November 2019 (UTC)