Talk:Tugs (TV series)

TUGS project call-to-arms (from WikiProject TUGS)
I left this note on the TUGS WikiProject, I've left it here as well to try and get a bit more information back.

Hi, I'm Chris, i go by the name of SteelersFan_UK06. I've only recently started editing again after a ten month break. I used to contribute to this project quite a lot, so i think now its time to get things a wee bit back on track.

First of all, I'd like to put a call out to all members who would consider themselves active in the project. Now and again, my watchlist changes showing that more users have added their name to the project page, but I have no idea who's just adding it for the sake of it, or who's actually actively making edits. If you would say you were active in this project, leave a note after this message saying that you're still here to help.

Secondly, and this is a more obvious one, but these articles require quite a clean up. While I was away, a number of articles under the TUGS hood have been either PROD'd or AfD'd, which I would have protested had i been around. Captain Zero (TUGS), Izzy Gomez (TUGS) and a few others have all disappeared. To save this continuing, we have to increase the information in the articles, and make sure its not utter rubbish at that. Here's what i think we need to do:


 * Trim and merge all episode pages. As you may have noticed on the "Jinxed" AfD, these pages are going to be deleted if we don't do something about them, but i agree that this should take place. I think this a good way to work against some of the non-notable information which is included in the articles, and any special information can be included in each individual character's page. It is standard for a television show, especially a children's television show with the "everything is all right in the end" ending, to have all episodes in one list, instead of each having its own individual page. Only a small section of what happens in the episode needs to be detailed on the page, ie notable events in that episode (The one with the bridge falling, the one where Zebedee helps everyone out, the one where the place gets really icy). I think that we could use the comment found on the VHS releases as the small blurb section, and maybe pad it with a few additional facts.
 * Keep a close watch on the episode listings. Last time I was about the listings constantly were changed around. The ONLY source of the episode listings we have is http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/series/18678, so we have to go by that. It got a bit changed around by people who don't think that this is the case, but we have to go by it because its our source. If anyone thinks that its any other way, bring it up in discussion and we'll see what we can do.
 * Consolidate pages on characters. I think we have too many separate pages on the characters of TUGS. I'm not sure if we need separate pages for the liners, the star tugs, the z-stacks, the other tugs, and everything else. I think maybe one page for the star tugs, one for Z-Stacks, and one for everyone else. This means that instead of having lots of small pages with not a lot of information, we can work on the fewer pages and make the information more notable.
 * Japanese TUGS? Recently I've saw that a lot of the pages have had the sentence "In the Japanese version...". What is the deal with that? I mean, I've seen the YouTube videos, does this just mean that the episodes were redubbed and released over there? If anyone has more information than just who voiced them, then please discuss it on here, so we can add it on to the pages in an orderly manner.
 * Improve information on Salty's Lighthouse and Theodore Tugboat. Initially i thought that we should distance ourselves from these articles, when really i've since realised that we should include these in our project. If we don't help out with these articles, not a lot of other users will, plus they are actually a lot to do with TUGS, especially Salty's Lighthouse.

There's a few other things I wanted to talk about, but I've forgotten them. If it comes back to me, I'll go back in and add more info, but as the title suggests, I think now its a call to arms. Remember, Wikipedia is the single biggest on-line source of information on TUGS, so we are the ones who must provide it.

Thank you for any help you are willing to give.

--SteelersFanUK06  ReplyOnMine!   22:09, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
 * People keep calling the episode "Regatta", "4th of July" even though the in real life the Regatta may take the same place as 4th of July, doesn't mean they should change the TUGS episode to that. Plus TUGS was never released in the US, only Salty's Lighthouse and that doesn't count.
 * Also it's spelled O. J. not O.J. If you look on the back of the VHS covers and in the books, they say O. J. not O.J. If you don't beleive me, have a look yourself.
 * Also yes, TUGS was released in Japan. --Victory93 (talk) 00:20, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'll check the back of the books about the O. J. thing, i was going by the evidence that was there at the time (ie the picture on his page before it was deleted) which said "O.J." as opposed to "O. J. ". It seems the series itself didn't retain consistency. Also Vitas, i knew it was released in Japan, i was actually looking for more information on it apart from "Yes, it exists".
 * As for the 4th July thing, I've never seen or heard of any evidence of this, its just been something that was said in the article and never changed. Please feel free to be bold and change it in the correct way, if anyone reverts it it'll have to be on the basis of they have found evidence going against it. --SteelersFanUK06  ReplyOnMine!   12:22, 6 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Anything that is trimmed out of these articles on Wikipedia ought to be checked against the articles on the TUGS wikia, and if any worthwhile info is missing from those (TUGS wikia)articles but is too much for these pages, whoever is editing should cut/paste it to there. Do I make sense?
 * ZEM (Hankengine) (talk) 18:01, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd feel nasty if i said no. But no. --SteelersFanUK06  ReplyOnMine!   01:26, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

"Regatta"/"4th of July"
I'm adding the "4th Of July" back in. I realised the VHS i have is called "4th of July", so i looked up a couple of the VHS's on Ebay, and turns out there's a few of them. So maybe it was released in the UK after all... --SteelersFanUK06  ReplyOnMine!   02:36, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Really cause I've got the video and it says "Regatta". Also when playing the episode, the opeing titles read out "Regatta". --Victory93 (talk) 21:33, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think that's why its always had the "Also known as" sign. We're proving it right now. Do you want to revert your changes or shall i.... --SteelersFanUK06  ReplyOnMine!   23:06, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * But we're not comparing the story to an American event. It's what's the story is called and has never been called 4th of July or refernced to 4th of July. Only those people who live in the US and edit this page call it 4th of July as they're comparing the event to the American event. So final word, the story was NEVER called or referenced as "4th of July". --Victory93 (talk) 23:47, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
 * No, this is not the final word, the story has  quite frequently  referred to as 4th of July, as i mentioned to you in my already. I have a copy of the VHS, i've had it for quite some time, I live in the UK, and its called 4th of July on the box as well as in the opening credits. My is not a pirate version either. Please stop removing references to the name. --SteelersFanUK06  ReplyOnMine!   18:42, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

But rather than what the case says, when you play the video, and in the opening titles and where it says what the episode is called, does it say Regatta or 4th of July since I've watched just now and the words in the titles say "Regatta", not 4th of July so really what the episode says would be more correct. Watch the video yourself and tell me if in the video in the opening titles, does it say Regatta. If so then it stays being called by it's correct name. --Victory93 (talk) 01:45, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I've already mentioned this in my last comment. The title sequence says 4th of July. Just because your video says one thing doesn't mean this video should be discredited. --SteelersFanUK06  ReplyOnMine!   23:05, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I know this discussion is old but look, here at the title sequence: Now that doesn't look edited. The fact that the production title says Regatta and not 4th of July means that it's called Regatta. The reason MAYBE why the VHS covers say 4th of July is maybe due to not many know what the Regatta is! --Victory93 (talk) 01:17, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Let me shed some light on the situation …Problem? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.179.147.143 (talk) 05:54, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Here's a similar phenomenon: …Strange, innit? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.179.147.143 (talk) 06:43, 23 September 2011 (UTC)

Simon Nash
Has it been officially confirmed that he played Ten Cents? If I remember rightly he was only ever regarded as a strong candidate for the role. I really think we should be careful saying he did if we don't know for certain? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.9.132.255 (talk) 12:50, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The only source we have on the voices is this, which states that Nash voiced Ten Cents. It is considered a reliable source, so its safe to say he voiced him. --SteelersFanUK06  ReplyOnMine!   17:52, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily. The names on that cast list were all initially put forward by the Sodor Island Forums after a bit of diligent research, but whilst Nash was definitely a forerunner for the role of Ten Cents (I've heard his voice, and I have to admit that I'd be surprised if it wasn't him), to the best of my knowledge they never managed to confirm it for definite. I don't want to start an argument or an edit war - I'm just pointing out that that cast list should be treated with caution.
 * Incidentally, I made an edit regarding this issue on the "Recurring characters" page a minute or so ago - I apologise if it seemed like I was trying to cause trouble (I hadn't seen your comment when I made that edit). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.18.81.59 (talk) 12:41, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Apologies, I have since reverted this edit before I noticed the note here,feel free to change it back. What voices HAVE been confirmed then, if the TV.com source is no longer usable? Also, I feel that if you are frequently editing then you should create a username. Its quick and simple! --SteelersFanUK06  ReplyOnMine!   14:31, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * The other names on the list have all been confirmed as definitely being involved in the show, although I think there's still a bit of uncertainty as to which characters they actually played. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.169.254 (talk) 13:31, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

←Where have they been confirmed? --SteelersFanUK06  ReplyOnMine!   04:52, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
 * On the Sodor Island Forums - they emailed various crewmembers who confirmed it for them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.17.155.35 (talk) 18:31, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately emails, or forums, cannot be used as official sources for Wikipedia pages. If this was published on the internet, like the TV.com page, then it could be used. There's too much speculation involved in emails/forums. --SteelersFanUK06  ReplyOnMine!   13:39, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

TUGS wiki to external links
Okay lets have another argument to try to reason why the TUGS wiki should be added to the external links. Here's the wiki if you don't know about it: [www.tugs.wikia.com/ www.tugs.wikia.com/]. Now, all articles about a series have included any wiki by wikia in their external links no matter how small. The Thomas and Friends page includes the wiki about it. The TUGS wiki as well is pretty stable now than what it used to be before as well including info that this wiki doesn't include like the VHS covers as well information on release dates. As well the Buzz books, annuals and other the photo books. Plus now the wiki has a fair number of contributers with edits being made naerly everyday. Plus with the lack of links on of TUGS, this is as close as we are to get to mainstream like with the TV.com and imdb links. Now there's a start of the argument. Repky back with your thoughts. --Victory93 (talk) 04:09, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Actually, your statement above ("all articles about a series have included any wiki by wikia in their external links no matter how small") is incorrect. We do not include "any wiki by Wikia" in the external links; the guideline is quite specific about what is required. Furthermore, there has recently been a move away from automatic acceptance of Wikia links. As for the "Tugs" wiki, it does not appear to be particularly large. There are only 139 articles on the site, and a review of the "Recent Changes" log showed less than 100 changes in the past month. (That was for all namespaces; filtering it shows that there were approximately 75 edits to articles in the past month, or less than three edits per day.) Simply put, there just isn't enough activity or content to warrant a link. --Ckatz chat spy  08:15, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Well not that many pages for the fact the show hasn't gone since 89, 93 with merchandise. The fact it inlcudes pages not covered here due to how small means it should be included in the links. I mean, there's no harm in it. If I add it to the links, will Wikipedia explode, NO!. And if other articles include links to the wikia about it, then shouldn't matter if this was included here. Plus the Japanese wikipedia on the TUGS article there include the wiki on the links section. Obviously they see no problem Note: please no one from here get rid of it from there just to go against my point. Plus Ckatz, do you have a knowledge of the show or even watched it?
 * Also if you look at the TV.com and imdb pages of the show, they're smaller and have had hardly any edits on there so doesn't seem much fair. --Victory93 (talk) 09:54, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Okay, I'm going to try my best to answer all of your questions at once. Quite simply the reason Wikia should be avoided is that when putting it up against WP:ELNO, it violates the following criteria:
 * 2: "Any site that misleads the reader by use of factually inaccurate material or unverifiable research, except to a limited extent in articles about the viewpoints which such sites are presenting."
 * 5: "Links to web pages that primarily exist to sell products or services, or to web pages with objectionable amounts of advertising. For example, the mobile phone article does not link to web pages that mostly promote or advertise cell-phone products or services."
 * 12: "Links to open wikis, except those with a substantial history of stability and a substantial number of editors. Mirrors or forks of Wikipedia should not be linked."


 * As well as, to an extent, 1:


 * "Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a Featured article."


 * If an external link is covered in three, possibly four criteria of a list of links to be avoided, then it should be avoided. I have highlighted the sections in particular which are problematic. Wikia is not advert-free, as well as this the content is not sourced/verified - it would be like Wikipedia using itself as a reference (and i think this link explicitly sums up why it should be avoided). As for Ckatz comments, he is correct, the content is far from a well-knowledged source of information - most of it is information from here which was removed and regarded as non-notable.
 * I think you are starting to beat a dead horse a bit here Vitas, you should let this one die. --SteelersFanUK06  ReplyOnMine!   21:20, 8 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Well I have tried my best to keep it factual. Of course many of the pages if you look on the wiki are actually factual. Plus those other rules you've pointed don't apply to it. It has no advertisement and it more information than the whole TUGS information here. --Victory93 (talk) 22:39, 8 November 2009 (UTC)

Page name
What justification is there in calling this page TUGS rather than Tugs ? -- Beardo (talk) 21:12, 24 September 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved to Tugs (TV series). Armbrust, B.Ed. Let's talk about my edits? 03:21, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Tugs → Tugs (TV series) – I suggest that this be renamed since it is not the WP:PRIMARYUSAGE of this term, which is more likely to be tugboat per simple Google search ; so after renaming this article, the current name should redirect to tugboat like how does. A less preferred option would be to redirect it to the disambiguation page tug (disambiguation) -- 70.24.248.7 (talk) 04:38, 23 March 2012 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.


 * Support. Agree the TV show is not the primary topic of "Tugs". Not sure what should be done after the move, though – I think perhaps it would be better to redirect to Tug (disambiguation). Jenks24 (talk) 06:46, 23 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Support. I agree that "Tugs" leans more towards tugboat usage. Biglulu (talk) 08:15, 23 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Support. I wish I had done it when I moved the article from TUGS. Almost all the incoming links will be fixed by an edit to TUGS series. &mdash; RHaworth (talk · contribs) 12:29, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Support for clarity. – Fayenatic L (talk) 11:46, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:

The TV show features tugs, is called tugs because it is about tugs, so the tugboat is obviously what should be meant by "tugs", not the TV show. ; similar to how cars are automobiles, not a Pixar movie (Cars (film)). -- 70.24.248.7 (talk) 04:45, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Second series
"Despite a second series being planned in advance, when TVS Television lost its franchise to Meridian Broadcasting, the series did not continue production past 13 episodes". The first series aired 2.5 years before TVS lost its franchise, and with no source to back it up, this information is highly dubious. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noxy83 (talk • contribs) 17:05, 4 October 2020 (UTC)