Talk:Turjan

Merge
Merge with The Dying Earth was proposed (by a tag without comment, iiuc) one year ago.

Instead of that it should merge with List of The Dying Earth characters. That should be renamed at least so far as "List of Dying Earth characters" because it must be intended to cover the Dying Earth series, not The Dying Earth novel. --As I write it covers the first and fourth books in separate sections, maybe an old merger? --P64 (talk) 19:06, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I support a merge. I don't know if we even should move any content to the list, just make a redirect of it. --Narayan (talk) 18:46, 12 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Done 2012-06-04, rename/move to List of Dying Earth characters. It does look odd with book one and book four content but the clear purpose is to cover the series, not only the famous first book.
 * P.S. Narayan, i moved "Mazirian" into cat and explicitly put into the navigational template Jack Vance those four of the miscellaneous articles (not titles by Jack Vance) that seem most worthy of mention there. Of course I may have missed some articles. And my judgment is over its head, essentially based on reading the articles.
 * At Dying Earth I may have rearranged and improved as much as I can, except for the great messy section 3.2 still marked {underconstruction}. --P64 (talk) 19:44, 12 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Yes to merge. —Tamfang (talk) 03:15, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Discrete spells
The theory or system of finite spells is a major contribution by Vance, i think i know from Diana Wynne Jones. I have bolded pertinent material in this article Turjan and also below in quotations from other articles in cat.

Quoting "Mazirian the Magician"
 * [Mazirian] resists but when she comes repeatedly, he eventually follows her, armed with only five spells. In this age, such spells that remain to the knowledge of sorcerers are very complex and difficult to memorise, and disappear from memory once used.
 * ... they are both attacked by deadly vampire-grass. As Mazirian, out of spells, is held tightly ...

Quoting The Dying Earth
 * In the Dying Earth, wizards use magic primarily by memorizing lengthy formulas for spells, and then activating them by speaking the proper commands. Once cast, the spell formula is instantly forgotten, requiring the wizard to reread and re-memorize them. Because even talented wizards can only memorize and "load" a handful of spells, wizards also have to rely on magical relics and on their other skills and talents to protect them. There are only one hundred spells which are still known to mankind, out of thousands which were discovered over the course of history. Pandelume implies that what the people of the Dying Earth call "magic" actually has a scientific origin; he indicates that many spells were invented through the use of mathematics and mundane sciences.

The consolidation of this material is distinct from redirecting Turjan but maybe should happen at once. Possibly the best place is The Dying Earth by refashioning the last paragraph of "Setting" (above) as a section on Magic. Or it may belong in the series article Dying Earth.

Ideally Jones is a source worth citing. I'll try to check.
 * P.S. I'm not sure how I wandered this fortnight to editing articles about Vance fiction from working on Jones fiction. ...

List of Dying Earth characters is a plausible redirect target for Turjan. It seems to be years-old work in progress where the characters section of The Dying Earth has simply been copied. --P64 (talk) 17:26, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Confirmed, List section 1, The Dying Earth, is literally a copy of The Dying Earth section 3, Characters. --P64 (talk) 17:34, 13 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm not thrilled with the implication that the most important thing that can be said about Turjan is that he illustrates the spells system. —Tamfang (talk) 06:26, 14 June 2012 (UTC)