Talk:Turkey at the 1908 Summer Olympics

Turkey or Ottoman Empire
I have looked at the document (http://www.la84foundation.org/6oic/OfficialReports/1908/1908.pdf) used as a source for this and other related articles. It clearly states that the country involved was "Turkey". However, the state at the time was known as the Ottoman Empire -- both by domestic and international terminology. The Republic of Turkey was not established until after the First World War, the two being substantially different. In the relevant articles, it should be stated clearly that by "Turkey" the Ottoman Empire was meant, for there was no Turkey until 1923. Ordtoy (talk) 23:23, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have been obliged to reply your talk almost five years later due to a controversial move. "There was no Turkey until 1923" is wrong. Is wrong for almost a millenia. See Turkey and Ottoman Empire articles. (The latter is also known as Ottoman Turkey, Turkish Empire and simply Turkey.) I think you are confused with the promulgation of the "Republic" in Turkey, with which the country began to be known, officially (long name) as the "Republic of Turkey". --E4024 (talk) 21:40, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Move reverted
"Ottoman Empire" or "Turkish Empire or Turkey (not the "Republic of Turkey") participated both at the 1908 Olympics and the 1912 Olympics under the name of "Turkey". I do not know under which name Austria-Hungary participated at the 1908 Olympics but our article on the event shows it as "Austria" and even displays a flag of "Austria-Hungary" as "Flag of Austria". I have not seen the same user who moved this page without asking the opinion of other users doing anything about the Austrian case. I do assume good faith, but apparently there is an enthusiasm against the name of "Turkey" also. I will not return to participate at this specific discussion if no-one again moves the page without consensus. Thanks. --E4024 (talk) 21:48, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Was he really there?
The article states that Aleko Moullos represented Turkey in the 1908 games. This is possibly (probably?) wrong. The only source that has been used (possibly the only source that exists) is the official report from the games. In this report, there is a list of competitors for the individual gymnastics heptathlon competition. The list has 97 names, one of them being "Mr. Moullos" representing Turkey. There is, however, also another, more detailed list giving the competitors with their starting number and their starting order. In this list, there are 96 names plus 32 more names marked as "did not appear". The only name from the first list that is missing in the second, is Mr. Moullos. This makes it highly probable that Mr. Moullos never participated, maybe not even came to London, since he was not given a starting number (but that is of course original research). Since the only existing source casts doubt to his participation, the article should at least state that there is doubt.

The official report has one more surprice in store. Appendix C has an alphabetical list of entries from all sports. In this list we find names from the 96 participants and from the 32 "did not appear"s, but no sign of Mr. Moullos. We do, however, find "Kinan Bey" from Turkey, supposedly to take part in wrestling, but no mention of which weight class or what kind of wrestling. Since every single wrestling match is mentioned and Kinan Bay does not appear in any of them, we can safely assume that he did not participate. My guess is that neither did Mr. Moullos.

In 2006, Mr. Moullos was baptized "Aleko" by an IP editor in Switzerland. No source was given, and the IP address has never been used in WP since, so there is no way to find out if the editor had a good reason to give him a first name. If he was Greek, his name would have been Alekos (Αλέκος), but we have no way to know.

That brings ut to the next addition, the fact that he was Ottoman Greek (added some years later). Again, no source was given, and even if it seems a logical assumption, since the name Moullos (Μουλλός) exists in Greece, it would again be OR.

I will soon continue to remove the unsourced info and add the doubt about his participation. Kind regards! --79.160.40.10 (talk) 19:26, 10 February 2013 (UTC)


 * The Turkish wrestler is Kenan Bey (name apparently wrongly transliterated while Ottoman Turkey was still using the Arabic script). He was a wrestler of the B.J.K.. If I can find time and sources, may contribute; but seems like I will be busy some time. --E4024 (talk) 20:37, 10 February 2013 (UTC)