Talk:Turkish involvement in the Syrian civil war

Name for ISIL
Anyone know enough Turkish to know what the Turks call the terrorists? Legacypac (talk) 22:23, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

@Legacypac "Irak Şam İslam Devleti" (IŞİD) or simply İslam Devleti. IŞİD or Daesh is the most common way to refer to them. Sapiocrat (talk) 14:45, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

At the appropriate point this article 2014 military intervention against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant}} will need a section pointing to the Turkish involvement. Legacypac (talk) 14:37, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page at this time, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 19:03, 15 October 2014 (UTC)

Turkish involvement in the 2014 military intervention against ISIS → Turkish intervention in Syria – align page name with 2014 American-led intervention in Iraq, 2014 Iranian intervention in Iraq, American-led intervention in Syria and remove the ISIS term that does not fit the consensus reached at Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, 2014 ISIL beheading incidents, and especially the parent article 2014 military intervention against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant Legacypac (talk) 21:18, 9 October 2014 (UTC)

Additional Comments: The current 9 word title (or 16 words if we spell out ISIS/ISIL) is clumsy and not COMMONNAME. The proposed title is a simple 4 words. If Turkey takes action in Iraq against ISIL it will be in conjunction with American-led allies, and that can be covered in 2014 American-led intervention in Iraq. In Syria however, Turkey has their own unique agenda. Turkey has been involved in the Syrian Civil War from the beginning. Turkey helped birth the FSA, is an opponent of the regime (even shot down a jet), and Turkey is a staging ground for various factions in the Syrian Civil War and entrance point for foreign fighters. Unlike other title options I've considered, Turkish intervention in Syria does not require tanks to roll across the border first, but it works just fine if tanks do roll. Turkey's interest is not just anti-ISIL but also they seek to prevent any islamic extremists, the regime, or an independent Kurdistan to have control of Northern Syria (buffer zone idea). Therefore having ISIS or ISIL in the title is too restrictive. A retitled, refocused article could cover these issues really well. Legacypac (talk) 21:18, 9 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Oppose - I think we should wait and see what Turkey actually does before we move the article. We know that they have authorized military action but we don't know if they actually will take part in any coalition operations. We also don't know the scope of their involvement in the intervention. Will they have a large role close to the size of the US's force or will it be smaller and under the US command structure. We don't know. If they for example only intervene in Syria in the air in a limited role along with the US then the Turkish intervention would be centered around the American-led intervention in Syria page. I just think we should wait for Turkish action. Another thing, this article needs some cleaning up, structure wise and reference wise. - SantiLak  (talk) 08:57, 15 October 2014 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Should be merged instantly, or at the very least renamed
Noticing just the name of this article on the ISIL navbox template, I was already of the opinion that its existence as a stand-alone article on the encyclopaedia was redundant. I've, however, decided to take a look, but soon after the first sentence it should become pretty clear to any sane editor on this project that the article has nothing to do whatsoever with the title at hand. First of all, the notion that Turkey is supporting the Islamic State is far more widespread than that of its antagonism of it, but even though this alleged Turkish government support for ISIL is more notable, it is still not notable enough for an article of its own. Let alone an intervention "against" article, as is the case here. That at least means that our ridiculous title should be immediately moved. I will enumerate a number of solutions that hopefully some resident editors here (if there are any) would find acceptable: I will drop a few notifications on the Syrian Civil War, ISIL and Iraqi insurgency talk pages to hopefully attract some editors. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 11:43, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * 1) Rename to Turkish involvement in the Syrian Civil War, which is similar to a title that was surprisingly refuted in an above move request. However, this may not be the best solution without considering that the article also deals with the Mosul hostage crisis, so this means it will be Turkish involvement in the Syrian Civil War and Iraqi insurgency. Yes, the title may be long, but that is still my preferred solution because they are both the same conflict now.
 * 2) Split the different parts of this article and merge them into separate articles, including Syrian–Turkish border incidents during the Syrian Civil War, Syria–Turkey relations and International reactions to the Syrian Civil War or the reactions section in Northern Iraq offensive (June 2014).
 * 3) Mix between solution 1 and solution 2 → Rename to Turkish involvement in the Syrian Civil War (and possibly merge the border incidents article into this one), merge the Iraq-related parts into the relevant article(s), and finally deal with any OR and synthesis left behind.
 * I went ahead and renamed it, the actual scope of the article had little to do with the title. The article could be useful in dealing with Turkish actions towards Syria throughout the war, Turkey is a de facto ally of ISIL. In fact, the original article name had nothing to do with ISIL, it is a recent move. FunkMonk (talk) 11:58, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * But then again, we will need to deal with the Iraq-related stuff here. Don't you think Turkish involvement in the Syrian Civil War and Iraqi insurgency would be a more accurate title? I gave up on making bold title moves some time ago. What say you? Fitzcarmalan (talk) 12:08, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Feel free to move it again, my main problem was just the extremely misleading title. If a title is a downright lie, there's no need for discussion before moving. FunkMonk (talk) 12:52, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Moved to Turkish involvement in the Syrian Civil War and Iraqi insurgency. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 10:45, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

mate you have a good point but 'Turkish involvement in the Syrian Civil War and Iraqi insurgency' is a really long and complicated article name. And the current contents are very Syrian related, rather than Iraqi. I suggest we just rename it to 'Turkish involvement in the Syrian Civil War' just like you said in the first place. kazekagetr 21:21, 3 February 2015 (UTC) @Fitzcarmalan you here mate? I really suggest that we rename the article   kazekagetr  11:18, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Do you what you deem fits. I will relocate the Mosul part to the reactions section in Northern Iraq offensive (June 2014) because it is more relevant there, and I strongly suggest we merge Syrian–Turkish border incidents during the Syrian Civil War into this article. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 13:49, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * ✅ Moved back to Turkish involvement in the Syrian Civil War, archiving discussion. Fitzcarmalan (talk) 14:16, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

ISIS Suicide Bombing in Suruç
The section claims a female suicide bomber is responsible for the attack, among other problems with the section. There is no evidence whatsoever that this is true. The page for 2015 Suru%C3%A7 bombing attributes the attack to an ISIS symphatizer from Adıyaman called Şeyh Abdurrahman Alagöz, with relevant citations. Sapiocrat (talk) 20:49, 23 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I've updated it. David O. Johnson (talk) 01:28, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

Not 'involvement' anymore
With the continuous bormbardment of Kurds by Turkish army facts have changed These new facts dictates the need to rename this article (or create a new one) named Turkish Military Intervention(and soon it may be Invasion...) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.87.206.137 (talk) 15:40, 14 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Turkey's conflict with the PKK (and since the Turkish Government views them as one and the same, by association PYD/YPG) is not at all new, nor are incursions into Iraq and Syria by Turkey to attack Kurdish targets. This conflict is older than the Syrian Civil War. Sapiocrat (talk) 02:45, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

Turkey casualties
The casualties wich I added are the ones wich happened during clashes on the border. The ones you added include casualties like the soldier who commuted suicide and killed one of his own soldier, or a soldier who was killed by refugee smuglers etc.. Those all have no place here as they have nothing to do with the clashes with ISIS and SAA/russia. Gala19000 (talk) 16:13, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

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Civilian casualties
Add the civilian casualties apart from the military section casaulties. It makes no sense to only add the civilian casualties in Turkey and not Syria. There is no such thing as vandalizing when I remove something wich a clear reason and facts. Get your facts straight Mr.User200. Gala19000 (talk) 13:12, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

isis casualties
If you find better claim add it. That claim is of 2015 and turkey fighting isis on north syria. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shadow4dark (talk • contribs) 13:16, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Turkish involvement in the Syrian Civil War
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Turkish involvement in the Syrian Civil War's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "cnn": From Russian military intervention in the Syrian Civil War:  From 2015 Ankara bombings:  From Operation Martyr Muath:  From July 2016 Kabul bombing:  From Jund al-Khilafah:  <li>From Sinjar massacre: </li> <li>From Syrian civil war: </li> <li>From 11 May 2016 Baghdad bombings: </li> <li>From Siege of Homs: </li> <li>From November 2015 Paris attacks: </li> <li>From Timeline of the Syrian Civil War (September–December 2011): </li> <li>From Abu Abdulrahman al-Bilawi: </li> <li>From Houthis: </li> <li>From Ankara: </li> <li>From Brussels ISIL terror cell: </li> <li>From Syrian National Council: </li> <li>From 2015 Khan Bani Saad bombing: </li> <li>From International recognition of the Syrian National Council: </li> <li>From Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant in Libya: </li> <li>From 2013 Iranian embassy bombing: </li> </ul>

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 19:14, 25 August 2016 (UTC)

Requested move 1 September 2016
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 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. (non-admin closure) Regards, Krishna Chaitanya Velaga (talk &bull;&#32;mail) 13:55, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Turkish involvement in the Syrian Civil War → Turkish invasion of Syria – Turkish ground forces entered Syrian territory in Jarabulus. 198.179.147.7 (talk) 18:17, 1 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Quite clear, the proposal stems from the fact that not enough time had been spent on sorting out the warren of articles related to the Syrian Civil War. This article is not about the recent incursion by Turkey near Jarabulus, and long pre-dates that event. Likewise, we have Russian involvement in the Syrian Civil War, Russian military intervention in the Syrian Civil War, as well as the overview Foreign involvement in the Syrian Civil War.Axxxion (talk) 23:14, 3 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Oppose This article is about the general involvement of Turkey in Syria since 2011. The invasion, or rather (common term) intervention, has its own article now here Turkish military intervention in the Syrian Civil War. EkoGraf (talk) 16:54, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose – use of the word "invasion" is both a POV violation, and an overstatement of the situation factually. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:59, 6 September 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Civilian casualties
To make it clear, civilian casualties are mentioned apart from the military ones and not all of them are Turkish as it includes other ethnicities and tourists as well. Hakan3400 (talk) 22:12, 1 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Its standard Wikipedia practice when we are talking about an overall number of civilians that does not distinguish between the belligerents. In those cases we put the number of civilian deaths in the bottom row, separate from the other casualties columns. However, if the civilians are distinguished from eachother, we list them in the separate belligerents columns. If the toll on the Turkish side included tourists as well (although the cited sources themselves did not say this) we then leave a note (*) to indicate the figure also includes foreign tourists. EkoGraf (talk) 22:55, 1 December 2016 (UTC)

I put them apart for that cause. Would like it of the other would use the talk page as well insead of editing it the whole time. The term Turkish is not right when the casualtoes includes many other nationals as well (as you said tourists, but also other ethnicities or even bussines men from other countries). And putting it on the list where all military losses are mentioned is indeed not right. If you wanne add that these civilians were killed in Turkey then you can add that on the list (bottom). Hakan3400 (talk) 13:07, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Warning.
Any change to the current Article content without the correct sourcing will be reverted. Especialy regarding the battlebox. If a change is made to a already sourced information the new sources must state the made change.Mr.User200 (talk) 01:42, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

O added the newer number from the Euprates shield operation on the older ones witch doesn't include the new casualties. I also added the sources from it. Stop removing sourced content other wise I will report you Hakan3400 (talk) 14:08, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Casualties numbers
The current numbers didn't include the ones from Opp Euphrates. So I added them as additional numbers. Hakan3400 (talk) 05:39, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

Warning to disruptive editors.
User:Hakan3400, please read carefully. Its a Wikipedia Essay: I just don't like it ("I erase it"). Its imperative not to WP:JDLI.Mr.User200 (talk) 20:45, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

RfC: Part of Military intervention against ISIL, or not?
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Is this article (Turkish involvement in the Syrian Civil War) part of the wider topic of Military intervention against ISIL?

I doubt that many would dispute that Turkish forces are now (winter 2016/7) attacking ISIL in and around Al-Bab. But Turkey has also attacked various SDF positions too. And some would suggest that not long ago Turkey was tolerant of ISIL, possibly even allowing them to be supported via Turkey.

An alternative view might be that the articles naturally overlap, but that neither is part of the other. Batternut (talk) 20:38, 3 January 2017 (UTC)


 * My view: Not part of (actually part of Syrian Civil War). Batternut (talk) 20:39, 3 January 2017 (UTC)
 * No The country that this article focuses on is involved in military intervention against ISIL, but not it's involvement in the Syrian Civil War. If you want a place to add this in, there's likely already a section on it in Turkey (country) <sub style="border:2px solid #FF0000;padding:1px;"> Adotchar | reply here  10:53, 4 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Related to Syrian Civil War but not ISIS, so no. MB298 (talk) 04:28, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
 * No, obviously not part of, but part of Syrian Civil War. 2003:77:4F1F:B90:41A1:B954:E9F0:DEFF (talk) 19:01, 17 January 2017 (UTC)


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Last warning to disruptive edits at Battlebox.
Anon users are reverting the editions made on the Infobox, the Turkish military intervention in Syria is part of the Turkish involvement in the Syrian Civil War and as long as Rebels and Turkish soldiers are clashing with ISIS and SDF forces, the casualties of both combatants must be included in the present Infobox. To show updated losses of the SDF and ISIS while not including the Turkish backed Rebels losses is Half-True reporting and could be considered SOAPBOX.Mr.User200 (talk) 12:30, 21 February 2017 (UTC)

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Request for Comment, White Helmets
Hello, there is an RfC on the White Helmets controversy, and you are invited to participate. Best, GPRamirez5 (talk) 16:23, 8 June 2018 (UTC) GPRamirez5 (talk) 16:23, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Foreign support for Turkish involvement
I believe that the recent changes to the infobox are confusing and non-sensical. Both Britain and Russia were removed from the infobox, despite the fact that both provided air support to Turkish forces during Operation Euphrates Shield. Meanwhile, France was added despite the fact that I am aware there has been no co-operation reported between Turkey and France in regards to Syria. --FPSTurkey (talk) 13:57, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

End of the Turkish game in Syria
What you need to know about the Syria crisis The Syrian conflict has created one of the worst humanitarian crises of our time. Over half of the country’s pre-war population — more than 12 million people — have been killed or forced to flee their homes. Families are struggling to survive inside Syria, or make a new home in neighboring countries. Others are risking their lives on the way to Europe, hoping to find acceptance and opportunity. And harsh winters and hot summers make life as a refugee even more difficult. At times, the effects of the conflict can seem overwhelming.Read More — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eddy Ramos1 (talk • contribs) 19:59, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Very concerned a Admin has not hatted this - this is nothing more than WP:FORUM - there is no discussion from the editor about any Reliable Source to benefit the article. 50.111.3.59 (talk) 16:31, 9 October 2019 (UTC)

Nomination of List of Turkish military interventions in Syria for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article List of Turkish military interventions in Syria is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/List of Turkish military interventions in Syria until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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Text copied
---> --Sm8900 (talk) 18:32, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

Changes to infobox.
Any substancial change to the Infobox must be sourced and sustained in the edit summary. Watch out for guides for article creation and editing. I see a constant and repetitive habit amongst Turkish users to get rid of the idea that HTS is one of their cobeligrents. And a strange change name for military formations. Something that is obvious in all articles related to Idlib Governorate and Idlib military opertions. I will be checking this page constantly. WP:NOTSOAPBOX, WP:NOTPROPAGANDAMr.User200 (talk) 20:28, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 11:26, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Turkish soldiers conduct patrol on outside Manbij, Syria.jpg

Image descriptions not clockwise?
Hi everyone, I think either I’m just having a funny day, or the image descriptions shown at the top of the article do not correspond to the images in the clockwise fashion that the article says they should. I think I’m likely to make a mistake so I was just going to run it past you before changing it, but yeah, it appears the descriptions actually follow a “snake pattern” rather than going clockwise as they should. WikiLover01 (talk) 13:27, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Elaboration of background section
Hi everyone,

Just a heads up that I would like to add to the background section on this page, elaborate it a bit. specifically the relations between Syria and Turkey up to the start of the civil war. If there are problems with this, please let me know. JudithLeiden (talk) 12:59, 3 May 2023 (UTC)


 * You can add them. Shadow4dark (talk) 13:22, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Casualties
I see that you're interested in updating the casualties of this article. I have merged the total tolls for FSA, SDF and SAA for 2023 and 2022. However, for years prior SOHR hasn't been releasing yearly statistics. There are only a few citations right now for years prior. If you are interested in finding these sources from sohr (2021, 2020 and even prior), it would be really helpful. Ecrusized (talk) 13:19, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

Why "Russian Intervention in Syrian civil war" but "Turkish involvement in the Syrian civil war"
What are difference between intervention and involvment ? 178.167.43.40 (talk) 18:06, 29 February 2024 (UTC)


 * I would assume it's because this article covers the period prior to Turkey intervening in 2016. From 2011 to 2016. You can submit a move request if you want. Ecrusized (talk) 15:51, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Turkish occupation of northern Syria which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 16:07, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

I think we should include Assad’s support for IS before the civil war and during the early to mid civil war as “an enemy of my enemy” tactic
https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/media/4698#:~:text=The%20regime%20purchased%20oil%20from,transactions%20with%20the%20Assad%20regime. Knowledgefindsr (talk) 15:49, 25 June 2024 (UTC)