Talk:Tuxedo Mask/Archive 1

Endymion Merge Discussion
I believe that the pages should be merged. After all, Princess Serenity is discussed on Usagi's page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ronakino (talk • contribs).


 * Regarding the merge - It should be. Prince Endymion is just a brainwashed version of Mamoru Chiba. --Marcg106 22:57, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Not brainwashed, but "alter ego". Denelson83 23:25, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * To clarify, Prince Endymion is the Silver Millennium character that is reincarnated as Chiba Mamoru. Danny Lilithborne 06:30, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, Mamoru of the present can become Prince Endymion when the time is right, so it still qualifies as an alter ego. Denelson83 06:40, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Strong Agree. Alternate identities are not separate characters. Shingen 21:29, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree as well. -- ReyBrujo 21:50, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * As the Endymion article doesn't contain any information not found in the Mamoru article, I'm going to go ahead and turn it into a redirect. I do think that section of the Mamoru article could use a lot of cleanup, though. --Masamage 18:35, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


 * This page is in violation of Wikipedia rules - especially since we want to avoid copyright infringement. One screencap per article is allowed. I suggest that some of them are deleted. strideranne 23:12, 1 April 2006 (UTC)Strideranne
 * Blah blah as you can tell, we ignored you! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs).
 * We did not. This just isn't actually a rule. --Masamage 02:52, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Formatting Issues/Template
This page has major, major formatting issues. It's not compliant with the other pages by a long shot. I would say that except for the last two sections it should take after vaguely the Usagi Tsukino page (minus the missing 2 sections, which I hope will be fixed soon *hint* *hint*). Format it around FORMS not arcs and plot differences? Is this OK? So for example, how the Usagi page has the Civilian section, then the Princess Serenity section, then the Neo-Queen Serenity Section, so too this one should break down his character by forms, so Mamoru, Prince Endymion, etc. Is this bad or OK? I can write up a piliminary for approval and then add in details. I want to get the pages up to speed because it's slowing down other sections and parts in our Sailor Moon Project. --Hitsuji Kinno 16:11, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Sounds excellent to me. I'd love it if you did that. :) --Masamage 18:26, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm dead tired. If you catch this before I get back to readd the lost info, please do so. I need sleep to be able to do it. >.<;; I was warned (Vandalism) for trying to reformat the page to standards, but I had to cut the info to add it properly later. But it isn't vandalism, it's growing pains. So *please* fix any missing info quickly if I don't get to it ASAP. I'll try to fix it tomorrow afternoon. It's past 12 here and I have an exam tomorrow... so forgive me for not quite finishing. I'll be more careful with the Chibiusa edits and do that this weekend after I clean up. *sleeping on keyboard* BTW, if the guy reverts it again, could you please explain to him the plans for the page, etc. If he doesn't get the idea already like, *cough* looking at the talk pages* cough* and MAYBE the pertaining projects. --;; The talk pages are there for a reason ya know.--Hitsuji Kinno 08:04, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * See my response at the WP:SM talk page. But that kind of thing could get really confusing, so feel free to keep discussion of specific articles in their own talk pages. Most of the project members seem to watch all of them, so there should be no trouble being heard. --Masamage 18:01, 5 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I did the last of the editing. I took out all the plot mentions. I ended up cutting much of variations because much of it was one, based on the Tokyopop Manga and two riddled with fan speculation and interpretations that could be argued in either direction. I tried to make it more neutral and less repetitive. It should be somewhere up to code. I'd still like to weave in references, but I'm experiencing burn out. Info dump always wears me out.
 * BTW, that screen cap from the anime sucks compared to the formatting of the other pictures. According to what we were doing with the Sailors, shouldn't there be a picture of anime Tuxedo Mask in the slot where Mamoru currently is. Perhaps that picture could be shrunk and then moved to elsewhere in the profile. I'd suggest using either the picture from the box cover from SuperS, or finding another suitable picture.
 * --Hitsuji Kinno 02:29, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Dang. You're awesome, and if we ever meet I will totally buy you a candy bar. And yeah, it can be very tiring, especially something as big as this. But so satisfying! I haven't looked it over yet (so sleepy), but on cursory glance it looks awesome. I'll probably do my usual anal wording tweakarounds, but that's no big surprise and nothing personal. XP
 * Also: yes! I've been hating on that picture since the first time I saw it. We need to do exactly as you suggest; I wonder where to find a good one? The ones in the Inner Senshi articles are soooo good... --Masamage 08:02, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Changing Image
I really do hate that image. I couldn't find the one I was thinking of, so I found some others in the mean time.

http://www.animegalleries.net/img/17265

http://www.animegalleries.net/img/17276

http://www.animegalleries.net/img/195488

http://www.animegalleries.net/img/195489

http://www.animegalleries.net/img/1273

I also suggest adding an image of the Moonlight Knight. I kind of like this one, smaller without the DiC logo...

http://www.animegalleries.net/img/91455

Suggestions are most certainly welcome. --Hitsuji Kinno 21:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Eeeee! I love the first one! That's what we need! :DDD --Masamage 00:49, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I need a second to move forward and whoever gets to it first can do it. --Hitsuji Kinno 01:18, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I like the first one, too. Although, I would prefer a pic of the Moonlight Knight without that logo on it.  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 02:20, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Why are we getting rid of the Horrible Green Jacket? XD It's iconic (although quite disgusting). Allegedly he had more fashion sense in the manga - does that count as a variation? ;) - Malkinann 09:14, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, we're not. :D It'll just move into the Profile section, the way the Senshi have their civilian shots. Fully agreed all around. --Masamage 19:18, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Done! I think I might replace the civilian shot, too, with one where he doesn't look like a complete sleazeball. :P Here are some ideas:
 * http://www.algonet.se/~khelatar/pix/indulgec.jpg
 * http://bishiheaven.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/mamoru.jpg (Green jacket!)
 * Tsukikage no Knight: http://www.tcp.com/doi/images/smoon/mamoru/tsukikage1.gif
 * I'm about to throw in an image of his rose-throwing, too, to match the attacking images in the Senshi profiles. --Masamage 22:19, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The first one is a nice picture, but lacks the infamous green jacket. The second one is just lousy all around because of the graininess and is obviously a screen shot. *However* I happen to have the Anime book Sailormoon R (which should be listed, BTW). I can scan and upload them to my server, I have the one from Hitoshi Doi in better quality too. If this is fine, I'll scan a few in. (I even have the grainy screen shot one and I have which episode it came from XD) O.o;; Has musical info too... wow... we should get these books listed *wanders off topic*. --Hitsuji Kinno 16:23, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Two clear versions of the green-jacket shot are here and here. Two other very nice shots are this one and this one. If we use any of these, the website owner is very insistent that we credit her, but we can do that. --Masamage 21:44, 10 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Do we really have to credit somebody over images they don't have the legal rights to? - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 01:39, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Geez, that got deleted fast. O_O I thought they had to give at least five days. Anyway, the picture that was there vanished, so I switched in one of these for now. Discussion is still open for picking a better one!

As for crediting her, no, we don't legally have to, but it's good manners. Besides which, Wikipedia requires us to note where we found all our pictures, so she would've gotten a link anyway. --Masamage 01:42, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Age gap
How much is the age gap between Usagi and Mamoru? In the manga, would it be two years (Usagi is 16 at finish, he is 18), whereas in the anime would it be four years? (he is 20) - Malkinann 09:14, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * According to "The Sailor Moon Role-Playing Game and Resource Book" Mamoru was born in 1974 and Usagi was born in 1978, which would put their ages at 20 and 16 respectively by the series' conclusion.   - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 17:48, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Is their wedding in the manga a flash-forward, or do they actually get married at 16 and 18? (Very unusual in modern Japan! Though it's the ages my grandparents were. :D) --Masamage 19:18, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * This does coincide with Japan's marriageable age. I suppose her parents gave the okay.  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 19:35, 7 October 2006 (UTC)


 * That's probably wrong though, since she says she's preganant in the manga, the line about a new star being born and they spent the night together in the engaement scene. Which means that it was 9 months to the wedding, which also means she was 21 when she was married. I have a scan too that makes it look like she's carrying more than the dress... --Hitsuji Kinno 16:33, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, she says she feels the new star will be born soon; that doesn't mean she's already pregnant, and sleeping in the same bed is no evidence either. It's possible, but it's not known for certain (though I havent seen that picture). Also, why would it be 9 months to the wedding? And then why does that skip her ahead five years? I don't get what you mean. --Masamage 21:11, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


 * She's kind of naked in that picture... and he's not exactly wearing clothes either. Umm... but whatever... heavy naked make out session sleeping together is fine to surmise too. Anyhow, I'll put up the picture to this talk just for fan interest (Link only) rather than something to include to the page. And the spacing is more like 6-7 months, I would guess. Original manga OK, or you want shinzoubon? *snickers* In the Live Action Series, it did take him a number of years to propose, did it not? Kinda be in character not to explain what that ring was for... though that special was also a stab at Takeuchi's own wedding too and making fun of herself. (If you read her Punch! series). Besides that it can be up for debate, though predating TP release it was thought that she was pregnant at the wedding. Though premarital sex might be the driving issue behind the reason the view has changed, which is not uncommon in Japan since they are generally not a religious Judeo-Christian Society. 9I'd have sourcing for the last two facts) --Hitsuji Kinno 22:19, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, that's fine. But why is she 21 for the wedding? I'm still confused. --Masamage 01:12, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Tuxedo
In the see also I added references for where she most likely got the idea for the Tuxedo which can't fit onto the main page. Item 1 is Prince Edward of England the VII If you look at the picture there, you will find that it looks *exactly* like the one in the manga. Next I added the Black Tie, which happens to connect the Henry Poole company to the Tuxedo and Prince Edward to that Tuxedo. In that you'll also find that there is a military application for the black tie, much like the Sailor Suits. *grins* I did a fan fiction based around this... so I did the research.. I don't know how to fit this in the article though... To note, though Henry Poole might also be responsible for popularizing the Sailor suit... since he was the tailor for the royal family. However, we can blame Prince Edward for both, and it was most likely when she went searching for Sailor suits, she found out about Prince Edward and his brand of the tuxedo, and visa versa (thus Smoking Jacket if you look up Henry Poole's website and then Le Smoking Bomber)... Interesting fact to know and tell. --Hitsuji Kinno 16:41, 8 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Where's the source that says the tuxedo was inspired by Prince Edward VII? I'm not doubting you; I'm sure you have it, I just can't figure out what it is. ^^;; --Masamage 04:53, 20 October 2006 (UTC)


 * O.o;; My browser must have crashed when I typed out a long answer to this. OK. On the Henry Poole website (older version) it said that Prince Edward the VII of England went to Henry Poole company who makes suits for a smoking Jacket. He wore it to Tuxedo Park where the "tuxedo" got its name. You can find the shortened version of the story here: http://www.henrypoole.com/henry_poole_story/the_tuxedo However I read an earlier version of this story which included things like the writer of Endymion, a novel was friends with Henry Poole (this is noted on the Black Tie section of wikipedia). However, the main evidence I wanted to point to on both pages is that Edward VII's tuxedo suspiciously looks like the one that Tuxedo Mask wears in the manga... look at the image here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Edward_vii_england.JPG and compare to these images: http://mangastyle.net/book1/1-cover.jpg http://mangastyle.net/book1/1-19-20A.jpg The broach looks strikingly similar. Also the Black Tie is said on the Black Tie page to have a military application, like the Sailor Suits of Japan. It was also popularized by Edward VII in this image: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AlbertEdward.jpg. This directly contributed to the use in costumes with children. XP So in another words he was a majority of the inspiration for the costume of the SM series. In summary there is a visible thread to how she could have found the information to it and a visible tribute in the choker of Tuxedo Mask. (His watch in the manga kind of looks like that broach too...). My trouble was where the hell do I fit this into the page, because it's obvious and considering she herself said she spent at least an hour a day in the Tokyo Library, I wouldn't doubt she would have found this with two points to find it from. (Sailor Suits and Tuxedos...) and even if not that Henry and Poole was friends with the author of Endymion, Benjamin Disraeli. If she was looking around for Endymion and found that book, and looked into the author (which happens with research) she could have found Henry Poole and Edward, but I think researching the origins of the Sailor Suit are more than likely which led her to Edward the VII. Anyway because it couldn't fit I put it into the other part... --Hitsuji Kinno 01:30, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Mask or Kamen?
Ready set, go! Which name should we use throughout these articles?

I vote 'Mask', mostly because it's not a name, so why not translate it? There's no ambiguity about the translation, that I've ever seen. I might be dissuaded, but that's my initial feeling. --Masamage 00:43, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I second "mask". Subtitles don't keep it as "kamen".  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 01:00, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * We should leave the original Japanese names in place. For that, I support "Kamen". --  Denelson83  01:09, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Japanese names are one thing, but "Kamen" just means "Mask". It's not meant to be a proper name. I say "Mask". Danny Lilithborne 01:17, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * For reference, "Tuxedo Mask" gets 88,300 google hits, while "Tuxedo Kamen" gets 34,600. --Masamage 01:27, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I side with google. --Kunzite 02:30, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Can you live with 'Mask', Denelson, or should we continue discussion? (While I'm at it, if you all could sound off at Talk:Sailor Senshi that would be excellent.) --Masamage 03:05, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * No, I can't. All article names of characters use their Japanese names.  If we use "Mask" here, there would be no consistency. --  Denelson83  16:40, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Not the article name--he'll still be Mamoru Chiba, and it'll still discuss the common use of both titles. This would be only for usage in other articles, out of context. The thing is that the Japanese names we use here actually are Westernized; if everything was thoroughly Japanese, he'd be listed as Chiba Mamoru. I'm also not sure his name is meant to be a big-deal mystical title. 'Sailor Moon' is very pointedly English even though the target audience was Japanese, so it seems like that ought to be her title no matter what language you dub her into. 'Kamen', though, is simply the local language. A person's name isn't just a word to translate, but Kamen feels like it is, because it's just describing his outfit. (I can totally see his brain working when Sailor Moon first asks who he is. "I'm, uh...crap. What should I say? ...Uh, Tuxedo? ...Mask? ...Wow, way to go, Chiba.") --Masamage 21:05, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * If we're going to use Japanese names for everyone, why not call him Taakuzido Kamen (or however that romanizes to)? Danny Lilithborne 21:27, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


 * "Takishīdo Kamen" ;P  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 23:36, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

lets just change it all to japanese to be sure lolz Sailor cuteness 17:36, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Can't do that. English-language Wikipedia. --Masamage 18:01, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

We decided that it would be "Japanese" for the article name (justifying this with notable character differences) and then we'd use the names inside of the article as they are best popular and correct unless ambiguous. (For example Selenity/Serenity or Elios/Helios). Therefore based on those parameters it must be Mask, and not Kamen. Why? Save headaches. 2. Save time. 3. Popularity on google with a name. 4. No ambiguoyus meanings. I think because the majority voted in favor of "mask" it should stay. if you want to be particular, add a note with the kanji, kana, and romaji on why it means mask... but that's a bit much. --Hitsuji Kinno 19:39, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Sooo....any further discussion going to happen? It's almost consensus; I would like the one voice against to be happy too, but we can't wait forever. Let's perhaps set a deadline for further comment at this weekend. After that, if no more conversation has taken place, we can probably call this decided. --Masamage 18:36, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I say Kamen. Calling him mask be like calling Chibi-Moon Mini-Moon! Just becuse they mean the same thing, its not. Lego3400: The Sage of Time 23:14, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Good point, although I'd like to point out the Google hits: 52,700 versus 16,500. --Masamage 23:21, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'd argue that in this case, they do mean the same thing. Danny Lilithborne 23:23, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


 * "Tuxedo Mask" has been used in some instances in a Japanese language version of the show. i.e. Here comes the Tuxedo Mask --Kunzite 01:20, 29 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Chibi can mean a host of things though, small, midget, dwarf. (Midget is closer). Chibi is actually derogatory and I would say part of the Japanese anime register, rather than an everyday word that you would find on the streets. But Kamen is in everyday Japanese and has only one meaning. There is no ambiguity to it. The reason we don't use Mini for Chibi Moon is because there are a ton of other meanings, as well as that's not a very accurate translation of the word. And I did learn Japanese, so I do understand the intricacies and I still vote in favor of Mask. Unless you want to go totally Japanese and do "Tuxedo Kamen-sama" which is actually his full title.... but that's far too Japanese for an English page. So since there are not multiple meanings and it wasn't translated wrong, Mask works just fine. --Hitsuji Kinno 02:43, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Psychometry in Anime
Though the power is not named there are indications of it in the anime as well. When Chibiusa touched his hand and just before he started to get those dreams from his future self he had a flash of Crystal Tokyo. This is a sign of psychometry where he picks up memories from an object or a person, which he seemed to do with Chibiusa. This again showed up later in the anime where he held and gave energy to Chibiusa in Super. There are a few minor instances, if I remember right besides those, but those are the two that would argue in favor of it being an unnamed, yet consistent power in the anime. It's also consistent in the manga, where it shows again, which Mamoru lending power to Chibiusa. And one could argue as well that Chibiusa has it because when she touches Chibichibi's hand she gets flashes of what happened to the other Sailor Soldiers. (Volume 18, I believe) But I'm leaving that off since it can be disputed. (i.e. she doesn't display the power before, so it could be Chibichibi, though clearly psychometry is involved.) Does anyone want to dispute this? Can I add it to the page with proper references and mentions? Or since it was not officially named should it be not added? --Hitsuji Kinno 06:28, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Mamoru also used his healing powers on Fish-eye who had cut his hand on glass. Hotaru also seems to be able to use these powers.  Once on Chibiusa, after she was attacked by Mimete's first Daimohn, and a reverse effect on the Daimohn Ubara (the rose monster).  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 07:41, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I think that sounds great. I'd say to be specific about it, making it clear that it happens much more in the manga (and is called by name, if it is). The very fact that Mamoru has those dreams is important too, especially since most of the Sailor Senshi remember absolutely nothing without Luna's help. --Masamage 19:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Makoto is the one who names it. There was a guy who asked her if she and her friends were aliens.  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 02:10, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Images... Again!
Ok We need to change the PGSM image... Appently a few episodes after his appearance, the staff deciced to add a Blue Gem (or marble XD) to the top of his mask, with out any explanation. (I've been watching PGSM on Youtube since my Good PC is down)(Is it me or am I on an Image Kick?) Lego3400: The Sage of Time 22:06, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Why do we need to change it? :) It's just as legitimate as any other image. --Masamage 08:21, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Could you get a decent image of him with the jewel, but without the timestamp in the corner? - Malkinann 07:44, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Arr, the timestamp! That would indeed be a good reason for change. --Masamage 07:47, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Bam. --Masamage 08:08, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

How do you like this?. If you digitally alter an image to remove a timestamp like that, can you still put it up on Wikipedia? -- RattleMan 09:03, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * My understanding is that you can put up digitally altered images on wikipedia, as long as you say that you edited it, and how. (airbrushing out timestamp, eg.)  Good job, btw.  ;) But if the "jewel" look is more characteristic, then perhaps when we replace the current image, we should try for one with a jewel, without a timestamp.  - Malkinann 10:49, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * That's what I think, too. Also, yeah, it looks great. :) If we want a jewel picture, I recommend this. If not, I like yours. --Masamage 17:33, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


 * I switched them. - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 22:25, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks! --Masamage 23:39, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

What?
I'm Surprised, No image of Ediymion or Moonlight knight?!?Lego3400: The Sage of Time 20:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll see if I can stir some up. -- RattleMan 20:17, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Splicing images together is fun:, and   singles (so far). -- RattleMan 21:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC)


 * I like the second one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs)

vandalism
i just removed some vandlism saying in a random part "is king of the queers" i was wondoring if the one who put it in should get a vandilsum warning or somthing? sailor cuteness-ready for love 21:11, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

i just removed more saying hes a prostute is there any way to get whoevers doing this banned ?sailor cuteness-ready for love 21:21, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

this stuped vandle i removed some vile comments from the pgsm section who ever doing this removed the whole section i dont know how to put it back sorry sailor cuteness-ready for love 21:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I gave him a test1. We do not block if the user has not been warned, unless there is a serious risk for Wikipedia. And vandalizing a single article is not really very serious because it can be reverted by editing an old version of the article. -- ReyBrujo 21:42, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

oh ok i got all the vandalizing but il revert it because of the pgsm info that has gone missing i didnt see that you allredy did it thanks :} sailor cuteness-ready for love 21:46, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

should we lock this page because it gets vandalised a lot♥sailor cuteness-ready for love♥ 15:50, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Can I just say that there's a bit more vandalism in the moonlight night part just so you know, it didn't show up when I went to edit it but it is there to read. (Sam) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.79.41.75 (talk • contribs)


 * it gets reverted quickly but i think it needs to be locked im not sure how to and i wouldent unless evreyone agrees ♥sailor cuteness-ready for love♥ 17:57, 9 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I reported the recent gang of vandals and they have been indefinitely blocked. I think we can hold off for now, but if it gets hit again I can put it up for a semi-protect. --Masamage 19:11, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

I wonder why this piticular page gets vandalised all the time poor Mamoru ♥sailor cuteness-ready for love♥ 19:39, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it's the same person or small group, disgruntled that we keep reverting them. Since it hasn't stopped and has switched to a new IP, I've requested semiprotection. --Masamage 19:02, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * yay then cute mamoru can get a brake ♥sailor cuteness-ready for love♥ 19:45, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * It was denied. :/ But I reported the individual vandal. So we'll see what happens. --Masamage 21:30, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

hopefuly the vandles/trolls will get bored and get a life ♥sailor cuteness-ready for love♥ 21:35, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Is it the same guy each time? its driving me insane he did it like 5 times today--♥sailor cuteness-ready for love♥ 19:07, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I think so, because the IP is only changing a little bit each time. That's enough that blocking him won't help, though. I've made the request again. --Masamage 19:50, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I hope it gets accsepted this time mamo-chan gets vandalised evrey day--♥sailor cuteness-ready for love♥ 20:11, 15 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Bam! It went through. :D For a good long time, too. Should be enough for them to get bored and give up. --Masamage 20:53, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

mabye long enough for them to descover a new web site or god forebid the outside world ♥sailor cuteness-ready for love♥ 20:55, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

unblock
unblock it now! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.145.240.230 (talk) 13:58, 16 February 2007 (UTC).

because of reacent vandulism this page is locked to new wikipedia if you would like to talk about the edit you want to make use my talk page user:Sailor cuteness ♥sailor cuteness-ready for love♥ 14:04, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Images
Thats all i think we need...Lego3400: The Sage of Time 02:52, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Anime or Manga Endymion
 * Pgsm Endymion
 * PGSM Dark Endymion
 * Anime or Manga King Endymion
 * Moonlight Knight
 * Replace Manga image with civillan manga image.
 * We don't need all of those, I don't think. Just one Prince Endymion should be sufficient; there's not a whole lot of variation. --Masamage 04:33, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

PGSM is diffrent and we need one of the king...Lego3400: The Sage of Time 21:48, 24 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I have issues with all three of the images you just added. The PGSM one is bleached out, the King one is busy with other stuff, and the Moonlight Knight one is cropped out of something that's still invading at the edges--besides which it's incorrectly licensed, because that is not a screenshot, it's a clipping from a magazine we'll never be able to find and source. The first and last need to be replaced and I am still not convinced that we need King Endymion or can justify such an image as fair use. --Masamage 20:41, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Here's a thought: using the same image on Usagi's and Mamoru's articles. --Masamage 21:53, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, I found a cleaner image for Moonlight Knight and put that up, plus a much less grainy shot of Prince Endymion. It's still too white for my tastes, but at least it's easier to see him. Took forever to find, though; nobody cares about the poor guy. --Masamage 02:50, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Another thing we need to do, in order to match the other profiles, is replace that manga shot of Tuxedo Mask with a manga shot of Mamoru himself. I'm having an awful time finding a good one, though. --Masamage 02:51, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

What about a picture of a manga attack because he dosnt use any manga attacks in anime ♥Eternal Pink-ready for love♥ 16:59, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Mayyybe.... Let's hold off on that one under we get this page reorganized, 'cause then it'll be easier to tell if there's a proper place for it. --Masamage 22:21, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Music Storage
A number of songs featuring Mamoru's character have been released.

From the anime, sung by Tōru Furuya:
 * "Toki wo Koete..." (Crossing Time)- Solo from the anime, first series
 * "You are Just My Love"- A duet with Usagi, from Another Love (a short audio drama.)

From the musicals, sung by various actors:
 * "Bara no Himitsu"(Secret of the Rose)
 * "Waltz ni Koi wo Nosete" (Love on a Waltz) (duet with Princess Serenity)
 * "Tuxedo Royale/Tuxedo Loyal"
 * "Tuxedo Mission"
 * "Double Moonlight Romance" (sings with Chibiusa, Pegasus and Usagi in 1995 musical), (sings with Usagi, King Endymion and Chibi Chibi in 1998 musical) and (sings with Usagi and Chibiusa in 2004 musical)
 * "Miracle Twister"
 * "And Believe in All" (duet with King Endymion in Kaguya Shima Densetsu Kaiteban)
 * "You're My Jewelry" (duet with Usagi)
 * "I Do Justice"
 * "Okaasan te Nan darou" (sings with Chibiusa, Cook, Hook and Mick in 1999 musicals) and (sings with Chibiusa, Hook and Mick in 2004 musical)
 * "Here Comes the Tuxedo Mask"
 * "Tuxedo Versus"
 * "Prince of the Earth"
 * "Moonlight Justice" (sings with Sailor Moon, Sailor Uranus, Sailor Neptune, Sailor Pluto and Sailor Saturn)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Lego3400 (talk • contribs) 15:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Citation of stats issues
Alright, I'll give what I know about the citations... but I think it needs verifying or looking into. These are trickier because they are scattered. Pretty sure we can use the materials collection for this one, primary manga reference would be act 3, where he introduces himself on the bus.
 * Name (Japanese): 地場まもる Chiba Mamoru

The Darien Shields needs a reference, I think again act 3, Mixx manga, mines off across the country though. --;;
 * Name (North America): Darien (dub), Darien Shields (English manga)

Materials Collection, probably second appearance? maybe first. She had a habit of coming up with titles and attacks late.
 * Senshi alias: Tuxedo Mask

First appearance, was the first time that Usagi and Mamoru had a little spat in volume 6? It's the act where she asks about his birthday and then they *at least* have a heavy make out session. 'cause his shirt came off. Was mentioned in the Materials collection too.
 * Birthday: August 3

Not directly mentioned, unless in Materials Collection. But not hard to figure out either based on previous birthday.
 * Astrological sign: Leo


 * Blood type: A I'm sure this is mentioned.. maybe Materials Collection, maybe fan book, maybe act 3 or 4?

That might be an anime book thing.. Got it from Ken Aromdee. I don't remember it showing up in the manga off hand.
 * Favorite colors: Black

I can't remember where this came from. I'm pretty sure it said reading, not reading books.
 * Hobbies: reading

I'm pretty sure this showed up manga side, but I can't remember where... maybe it was a side story, probably in anime guide books too.
 * Favorite food: Chocolate

Ken Aromdee... don't remember it in the manga.. might be somewhere.
 * Favorite subject: Physics

Anime books?
 * Least favorite food: None

I think this is a Takeuchi-sensei thing, again, I blank from where.. Ken Aromdee also has it in his FAQ, but there must be a base source.
 * Worst subject: None

Not officially listed manga... needles was mentioned in the episode with Ami. Ironically this is a theme in a lot of Toei male characters who end up wearing pink shirts... Goku wore a pink shirt once and he was afraid of needles as well. ^_^ First appearance of having trouble with arguing shows up in the curry episode of SMR and in the manga volume 10 back matter a picture done by Ikuko Itoh where he's sweat dropping and doesn't know what to do.
 * Has trouble with: other people arguing (anime)

Dream in the manga, I think it was supported in the act where they got younger and were shown Elysion... the doctor comment can be supported in the manga with the going to medical school, however, this isn't a real established dream, only a hoped profession. In the anime, I think it was the same episode with the needle, but I have a stronger feeling that it had to be later, because I remember he said at one point he didn't know what he wanted to be and had a variety of high-end subjects on his shelf. (I believe this is the episode where he helps them out, but they really wanted to escape the heat).
 * Dreams: To protect the Earth with Usagi (manga), to become a doctor (anime)

Easily supported, anywhere in the dream arc.
 * Guardian planet: The Earth

Also dream arc, may first appear first arc, end of series where he uses his powers to check if the Earth is OK and says it's a little scratched, but the dream arc will have better support... somewhere.
 * Element: Earth


 * Height: 173 cm / 5'8"

use same references as the ones in Ami.

First age established at Act 3, second age divined by Usagi aging 2 years, and the anime age given by the fact he's said to be a college student, first by Motoki, then stated by the girl that had a crush on him during, I think the Super arc. Note that the age though was a confusion from the manga where there was a character named Endou who was in college and was taken over/killed/disappeared then Mamoru assumed his identity, making him best friends with Motoki, and a college student... since Motoki was already said to be in college by Reika of the manga. Thus Mamoru's backstory was changed anime-side to make him a college student in that *cough* classic green jacket which in the manga looks like a really cool black jacket...
 * Age: 17-18 to 19-20 (Manga), 20-21 to 22-23 (Anime) throughout main storyline

I need episodes though... and to verify sources.. *sighs* and I need to do Nanowrimo too... I have a test tomorrow. --Hitsuji Kinno 09:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Comfirmin' your references: Act 3 is right for the names, and Act 1 is right for his title. The Materials Collection doesn't have his birthday, so it must be Volume 6 (which I don't have). When Luna looks him up in Act 4, she doesn't have his birthdate or blood type. The anime talks about how he can't decide which subject to focus on in school, sometime in early S. I can find that if you like. And your age thing is correct! :) The other stuff I don't know off hand. --Masamage 20:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The episode where he says that he's into studying a lot of things is the one where Usagi gets drunk. "Usagi's dance is the Waltz", I think.  - Malkinann 12:00, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Right! Thank you. :) ("Mamo-chan to paatii!! Demo, Eigo... Mamo-chan to paatii!! Demo, Eigo...") --Masamage 19:19, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * We just need the rest of the references... In that episode too she asked what their first kiss was... ^^;; Makes a great trivia question because their official first kiss was in an episode that wasn't counted later in the series. If you throw in the curve ball of the first kiss where Kotono Mitsuishi did the voicing, it makes it even more geeky! ^.~ No wonder poor Mamoru is confused. *which one*. They kiss much earlier in the manga. *shrugs* not wikipedia friendly though.--Hitsuji Kinno 01:00, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Hee hee. To say nothing of the Silver Millennium! :D --Masamage 02:44, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Wait! She asked him about their first kiss in the episode where Unazuki was attacked.  The "Three-way Battle" episode.  - Saturn  Yoshi  THE VOICES 17:17, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Hitsuji, which first kiss do you refer to, when you say it wasn't "counted"? In the first season, they kissed on the balcony while she was "drunk" - the English dub turned this into a dream but it was real in the Japanese anime.  I always took Mamoru's reticence in the three-way battle episode as realizing he remembers an earlier first kiss than she probably remembers.  Anyway, they didn't kiss again in season 1.  In season 2, they kiss in episode 60 after their boat trip, and this is a "real" kiss between their civilian identities, sober, with full awareness of each other.  She may be assuming that is their first kiss, whereas Mamoru may know otherwise.   Episode 44 I count as Prince Endymion and Princess Serenity kissing, not their first kiss as Usagi/Mamoru.  Also, there's nothing saying that that is the first time the Prince and Princess kissed (unlikely, to be honest).  So I don't take Episode 44 as a first anything.  Can you clarify which kiss you were thinking of?  (The balcony scene was while Kotono was voicing... Araki was voicing during the Princess Serenity kiss but again that's not a "first" kiss) 72.192.237.134 17:24, 24 December 2006 (UTC) Ismail

Darien's age most likely ranges from 18-20 in the anime, because you can indeed be 18 and be in college, and considering that Serena is 14 when they start dating means that for him to be 20 dating a 14 year old would not be right. However, 18 dating a 14 year old is not that bad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.72.155.181 (talk • contribs)
 * "Would not be right" doesn't really enter the picture; Japanese culture is less stringent about that sort of thing. But yes, that is his probable age range. --Masamage ♫ 01:52, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * so you mean yes to his age range probably being 18-20 in the anime? i understand what you mean about japanese culture. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.72.155.181 (talk) 19:27, 10 April 2007 (UTC).
 * Most people assume that is the age range, yes, and it makes sense. I wish we could find an official source on it. (I think it's mentioned in the manga that he's a college freshman, but that's as much detail as we get. He could even be 17.) --Masamage ♫ 21:38, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

teleport
he use teleporting a lot in the anime when he walks away and just disepers like in R when he was being cold to usagi he would just disapere--♥Eternal Pink-Ready to fight for love and grace♥ 08:58, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure that's just a stylistic thing. --Masamage ♫ 17:15, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Additional Powers
Psychometry, the ability to get information from the objects you touch. This was shown when he touched the Earth at the end of the first arc, again when he touched Chibiusa (manga and anime) and started to get flashes of the future. He also has the power to heal, which Takeuchi-sensei listed as psychometry, but I'm fairly sure this isn't the case. I believe it's called something else. He showed this in the anime and manga when he linked his lifeforce to Chibiusa through touch. He also healed Asanuma much like Hotaru does for Chibiusa. (Getting the proper name of this power would be useful.) He also does that rose circle throw in the Super episode before Venus showed up as Sailormoon in the anime that looked an awful lot like Jupiter's Flower Hurricane in the manga. I'm not sure if that's worth mentioning, but it can be a subsection of the regular rose throw since it had no words. In the early episode where we see him half transform for the first time, I think he disappears there when Sailormoon transforms. However later episodes seem to contradict this since he's with Chibiusa in the curry episode and doesn't involuntarily disappear. Did I miss anything? --Hitsuji Kinno 00:13, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


 * he had that rose that broke beryl's body with hos love for Usagi ♥Eternal Pink-Ready to fight for love and grace♥ 09:43, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that's just part of the roses that break concrete and stuff. --Masamage ♫ 15:57, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

it started to glow and beryl said it was his love for usagi turning to energy to destroy her body ♥Eternal Pink-Ready to fight for love and grace♥ 16:27, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

The other powers besides psychometry
After a bit of searching with Lunar Archivist we came up with this: Psychokinesis Biological healing (which Mamoru displayed on Asanuma)and the transference of life energy (on Chibiusa) is a sub section of psychokinesis. (as supposed to telekinesis which is the transference of matter). Biological healing is not the same thing as psychometry... I hope that's not too much original research. I was looking for something to explain what was already presented in the series rather than trying out a new theory... should this be added? Be useful at least in Hotaru's article. --Hitsuji Kinno 04:44, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Mask/Kamen again
This conversation died out. Let's please keep it going until it's solved.

Four voted in favor of using Mask, two voted in favor of Kamen. Points that were raised against using Mask:
 * Lack of consistency in article names
 * Obvious grossness of calling Chibi Moon "Mini Moon"

Both of these points have been responded to. Tuxedo Whatever won't be the article's name at all, translating Japanese words for the English WP is recommended whenever possible, and the definition of Kamen is never disputed. Other words that we retain in Japanese, such as Senshi and Chibi, have a multitude of possible meanings.

Because these alternate arguments were raised but not responded to, the state of the discussion is unclear. Were they sufficient? Do people still disagree? If so, please explain your thoughts.

Furthermore, if we find ourselves in deadlock, what should we do about it? This isn't the ordinary situation where "no consensus" can just mean "leave it the way it is." Right now the articles use both, and it has the potential to be very confusing. A decision should be reached. I still lean toward Mask, but again, I can be easily dissuaded. --Masamage 23:44, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

My experience of usage on the internet, which is admittedly a couple of years old, is that the people who call him 'Tuxedo Kamen' have tended to be the knowledgable fans of the show, whereas the people who call him 'Tuxedo Mask' have tended to be either its detractors or those who were only familiar with the dub. This leaves me with a pretty strong aesthetic preference for 'Kamen', but I don't know to what degree, if at all, that ought to influence wikipedia. --Glump 00:20, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I disagree with that. I've been in the fandom since about 1998-1999. It goes both ways. Lunar Archivist who was in the fandom since about 1997? maybe earlier calls him Tuxedo Mask, and he has an insane amount of information on the lore. It's just that the new wave of fans are not as well versed in the series as they used to be. It *used* to be that if you said Do you know the page where Hotaru shows her cybernetic arm people would know the approximate volume number and then tell you it doesn't happen in the anime. Now fans are like, "What? Cybernetic? When?" So it's not out of ignorance that I voted for Mask, it's out of knowing Japanese, knowing the series well and knowing that this page has to be written for not just fans, but other people too. Since it's not his civilian name, but a title (like Sailor Moon is a title, since it will be passed later to Small Lady), I don't see the point in keeping it Japanese when there are no disputes as to what it means. Like we don't call the Prince of Japan Nihon no Ouji. To give you an idea of how deep my fandom is.. I did a High School Senior thesis on the censorship to manga and anime, which focused in on SM... I was nuts back then. Atashi mo nihongo shitteru. There's been fans deeper than I have been that call him Tuxedo Mask. Anyway, I voted in favor of Mask because of the wikipedia rules. This page must be accessible to a number of people outside of the fandom. One would have a stronger case on Wikimoon than here. --Hitsuji Kinno 04:19, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Just for the record, I know Glump to have been into the fandom since at least '96, so when he says "a couple of years old" he is being humble. :) Intensity of investment in the series is extremely beside-the-point, though. --Masamage 05:05, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, my purpose in mentioning the 'couple of years' at all was just to make it clear that, these days, I'm kind of out of touch. It sounds like Hitsuji and I are talking about roughly the same period, though, so I don't know what's to blame for our differing experiences; probably some combination of chance, different circles, and treacherous memory.
 * The argument from the Prince's title makes sense if 'Tuxedo Kamen' is intended to be entirely descriptive in the same way -- if the people who call him that are just approximating 'the man in the tuxedo and mask' -- but I've always taken it to be something more in the way of a proper name. --Glump 10:29, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Umm.. I've taken it as a title, since Sailor Moon, Sailor Mercury, etc are titles, and that's his alter ego, he can pass that title along. ^^;; If you are super comic geek the next sentence will make sense (I hang out with one). Other precedents of titles being passed on where you thought that it just was a proper name: Green Lantern (I heard there were a lot of them) Batman (2 Batmans, and several Robins... not to mention one became Nighthawk?), I think Captain America too... but I'm not sure. But the point is that the title of the comic stayed the same, but the person wearing the mask and doing the good deeds changed. There was Superman, Aquaman, and of course the cast of X-men characters, but the reason behind that was that there was no one invented with similar powers. i.e. no one to take over (or the character is said to live forever (Superman). Thus most super hero names are actually formal titles, like Prince, etc, which are passed person to person, and sometimes even inherited or given. (Royal Titles are sometimes given if the king hates all of his sons... at least I've heard, or the son skips out. For example, Victoria was given the right to be queen... the king and queen at the time didn't have a son, but they could have chosen a male heir too..) If we delve into Japanese anime--there are precedents of this kind of thing too... but it's more in seitei and seitei anime (I think Kamen rider passed his title... not sure, but I heard while I was editing the American version of it that there were several in the series...)... considering that Sailor Moon was based on such anime, it's not that much of a stretch, and considering Sailor Moon is also considered a title, i.e. This title will be passed to Sailor Chibimoon and her daughter, and then her daughter's daughter, it's not that much of a stretch to say that Tuxedo Mask can also be considered a formal title to be passed on. Takeuchi-sensei once joked that Tuxedo Mask had to buy all his roses (it was an audio tape thing... I read the translations, but never could get my hands on them. *sighs*) and he was seen taking off his costume manga side, he transformed anime side (apparently there was an adlib that was cut... Tuxedo, Make up! (Takeuchi's liner notes)) so it's possible for him to simply hand over the title. (Though clearly it can't be inherited). So I wouldn't take it as a formal name attached to him and only him with a birth certificate attached. ^^;; Too much anime, comic book lore, etc shows that he could give it up one day and pass it to someone else. Even SM supports it... making Tuxedo Mask a title. Jackie Chiang as far as I know, uses Tuxedo Mask... didn't Greenbeans, Tim Nolan, etc also use it before they got published and jumped ship? (Tim Nolan co-published with a legend on the writer website community... lucky bastard.) *sighs* I don't meet many fans from back then anymore who know their stuff. Kinda sad... BTW, Doesn't Hitoshi Doi use Tuxedo Mask, I think Ken Aromdee does too, forget SOS and someone take away their privileges permanently (I thought they were gone, but they are worse than the energizer bunny... their site disappeared for a month). Pop Tarts! ha! I was on sailormoon.org most of the time... back then... ^^;; --Hitsuji Kinno 08:47, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

iv also vote mask iv seen jappnese with subs saying mask Sailor cuteness 20:32, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I vote for Mask. It's not an official title or anything, it's just a name he gives himself, so I think it should be translated to English. Torca 07:08, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

I vote Kamen, because it's how he is called in the orrginal Japanese anime and just about everything elce was wrtten in such a way not in the way that it was said in the english dub. Yayamaya 01:05, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I vote Kamen, but I guess that's because I'm more faithful to the Japanese version of the show. Call me crazy, but I'd like to think that Takeuchi-sensei had actually meant for him to be called Tuxedo Kamen. If it wasn't, wouldn't it make more sense for her to call him Tuxedo Mask right from the start? I'm not sure what the Japanese word for 'tuxedo' is (and I pray to god it's not 'takusido' :P), but I refuse to believe that his name is a mixture of English and Japanese due to the lack of one woman's knowledge of the English language. --Zyppora 14:20, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Im changing my vote because I agree with comment above ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 22:28, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The word in Japanese is 'Takishiido'. I don't know why it's so hard to believe his name is both languages when the other heroes are called Sailor Senshi. --Masamage ♫ 23:09, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, that's exactly my point ;) The name IS 'Tuxedo Kamen', the name 'Tuxedo Mask' is but a translation, much like 'Sailor Scouts' is. --Zyppora 09:00, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm given to understand that Mask is an accurate translation of Kamen, and the question lies then in, "if this is so, to abide by the rules of Wikipedia, should we use "Mask"?". Whereas the term "Sailor Scouts" really is a poor translation of Sailor Senshi.-Malkinann 10:16, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I think what you're missing is the consensus we had a while back for using the term Sailor Senshi at all. The English WP style requirements state that we should use English whenever possible. We'd be translating Senshi too, if not for the fact that there's no agreed-upon way to do so. Official Japanese sources say both Soldier and Guardian, and the dub adds both Scout and Warrior to the mix. It's impossible to know which one to take, so we just stay with Senshi because it's the most accurate in its original form. Kamen, however, is indisputable in its meaning. We can make it English, and we're supposed to do so, so we do. --Masamage ♫ 17:29, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Incidentally, where's the guideline that says that we ought to use English? -Malkinann 22:03, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


 * WP:ENGLISH. Mainly applies to the actual names of articles, but not exclusively. --Masamage ♫ 00:28, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Then, may I present an example of using a title in Japanese where an English translation is (more or less) indisputable, and, considering the above comments, more plausible than the (exclusive) name/title of Tuxedo Kamen? --Zyppora 09:49, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Indisputible, huh? Mind telling me what it is? 'Cause I've heard Weird and Phantom, neither of which comes up for it in the dictionary (in fact, nothing does). Anyway, if you read the guideline I linked to, it says it's okay to use the foreign name in any case if it's more common among English speakers, which would certainly be the situation with them due to the lack of any translation at all. Tuxedo Kamen, however, turns up 33,600 Google hits to Tuxedo Mask's 94,000. --Masamage ♫ 17:38, 1 June 2007 (UTC) -- Update: Since I last ran this search, the online dictionary I use has been updated. Hooray! An Ayakashi is a ghost that appears during a shipwreck. Which is kind of awesome, but which doesn't have an equivalent English word. I wonder what the accompanying myth is. --Masamage ♫ 21:51, 1 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah, okay. The article clearly states 'The sisters live up to their surname (which translates as "weird")' though, I skimmed the discussion to see if it was a hot topic, but didn't find much there (but I could have missed it). And I would plead that Weird Sisters is generally more used (among those who've seen the dub that is). Without seeing the Japanese version (or reading the manga) I'd say a person wouldn't know their surname is Ayakashi Sisters and assume it to be Weird Sisters. That's why I mentioned it as an example. --Zyppora 20:51, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yikes, thank you. I've removed the inaccurate (and slightly biased) line. It's probably true that all the dubbie names are more popular among English speakers, but I'm reluctant to use inaccurate translations when accurate ones will do, ya know? --Masamage ♫ 21:46, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Roger that ^_^; *still uses Kamen though* :P --Zyppora 11:06, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I spell Chibiusa differently off-wiki, and use the family names first. X) --Masamage ♫ 15:14, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * You mean Tsukino Chibi-Usa? :P I do that all the time to be honest. Because chibi isn't a name but a prefix, Usa is the name (so basically they're both different words but since spaces don't exist in Jap I consistently do it wrong by adding a dash for clearance), and familynames go before personal names in Jap. Besides that, it's the only way to make puns like Mizuno Ami work out :) --Zyppora 19:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Images
For the standard set by our other bios, two of these images need to be removed: the manga picture of Tuxedo Mask, and the anime picture of Mamoru. We might get a manga shot of his civilian form per the others, but let's not worry about it until we've got this fair-use thing figured out.

I'm going to remove the images now. The manga Mask one I'll mark as orphaned, and it won't be deleted for a week. The anime Mamoru one is also living at the main Sailor Moon article, so it'll be fine. --Masamage ♫ 15:47, 5 June 2007 (UTC)


 * We do need a picture of civilian Mamoru here, though. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.72.21.221 (talk • contribs).


 * I've been digging around, and there are no color pictures of Tuxedo Mask in civilian garb. See The Oracle's page on him; even as Mamoru he's only depicted in Tuxedos, at least in the artbooks.
 * So here's my new proposal. I think we should treat Mamoru's article the same way as Setsuna Meioh and Hotaru Tomoe by using a manga picture as the lead image, with an anime picture as the civilian image. For the latter, we can use the one at the Sailor Moon article. For the former, I think this one is by far the best. How does that seem? --Masamage ♫ 21:06, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, this is so easily revertable that I'm gonna go ahead and do it. Feel free to jump in if you don't like it! --Masamage ♫ 22:22, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * The image you linked from Soul Hunter above returns a 403 for me. -- RattleMan 22:25, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * copy and past the link into the browser :P ♥Fighting for charming Love♥ 22:38, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Or just hit 'enter' in the address bar from the 403 page. Anyway, I uploaded it, so you can see how it looks. --Masamage ♫ 22:39, 2 July 2007 (UTC)


 * Looks awesome. -- RattleMan 22:58, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think so, too. Naoko's version of Tuxedo Mask actually makes the look work. ^__^ --Masamage ♫ 23:07, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Proposed move to Tuxedo Mask
Please be aware of the discussion at WP:SM about moving this article to the title Tuxedo Mask. --Masamage ♫ 19:00, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Consensus seems to have been reached, so here goes! I'll move it, then rewrite the lead, then clean redirects and such. --Masamage ♫ 02:43, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay...I got hesitant about this one because Tuxedo Mask is genuinely just a pseudonym, not a real name at all. So I ran a Google search on "mamoru chiba" OR "chiba mamoru" OR "darien chiba" OR "darien shields" and got 36,700; then I ran another on "tuxedo mask" OR "tuxedo kamen" and got 599,000. So I guess I'd better go ahead with the move for now. X) But, any comments about that thing I paused to worry about? --Masamage ♫ 03:04, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Tuxedo Power!
I believe Takeuchi-sensei said in a liner note that the seiyuu, Tohru-san had an adlib for episode 35 where Tuxedo Mask transforms... and he said Tuxedo, Make up! as a joke. She said she was there... ^^;; I wonder if the Live Action is making an in-joke about that. I laughed hard *because* of the in-joke... it wouldn't be the first time either since she made odd ball references to her wedding in the Usagi and Mamoru Wedding Special. She said in her Punch! that she and Togashi would break up before the wedding for silly reasons then Togashi would get on his knees and propose again... she also said she refused him several times because the feeling wasn't right... in her own words: http://www.kurozuki.com/takeuchi/punch/trans/round03.html (Propose Punch!)

Narration:     When did he propose? When did you decide to marry him? I'm often asked that, but...

Naoko:         I don't really remember how many times he proposed before I decided to marry him.

Yoshihiro:     What!? You didn't decide to the first time I proposed to you?? Isn't it normally like that?

Narration:     Winter. The first time was one or two months after we started seeing each other.

Naoko and Yoshihiro are in bed together.

Naoko:         Hey, hey, how about you say, "Please become my bride in Yamagata-ken?"  Yoshihiro sweats.

Yoshihiro:     You marry me... Me get married...

Narration:     I was interested in Yamagata-ken, so I asked him as a joke.

Yoshihiro:     What!? But I was serious about it! Narration:     Winter. The third time, after we were engaged, we had a big fight.

Yoshihiro:     Will you be my bride? I'm sorry!

Narration:     The fourth time, again after a big fight.

Yoshihiro:     One more time, will you please marry me? I'm sorry!

Narration:     Repeat times three and four.

Yoshihiro:     Seems like every time we fight, my desire to propose influences my words of reconciliation.

hahaha. 'cause Makoto in PGSM said Again? after Usagi announced the wedding was off.... and it seems very close to Takeuchi-sensei's own experience. As for the tuxedo, Make Up Quote, I'll have to ask Alex Glover to repost the liner notes...--Hitsuji Kinno 16:34, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Stats from article
Instead of putting these into prose, I'm just copying them here for now so that they can be sourced first. Once we have those, I'll work 'em back in. :) The Sailor Moon FAQ also has a good list. --Masamage 01:49, 12 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Blood type: A
 * Favorite colors: Black
 * Hobbies: reading books
 * Favorite food: Chocolate
 * Least favorite food: None
 * Favorite subject: Physics
 * Worst subject: None
 * Has trouble with: other people arguing (anime), getting needles (anime episode 97)


 * Dreams: To protect the Earth with Usagi (manga), to become a doctor (anime)


 * Height: 173 cm / 5'8"
 * Age: 17-18 to 19-20 (Manga), 20-21 to 22-23 (Anime) throughout main storyline


 * According to Mamoru Chiba's profile on Moon Prism Box (first manga arc based)... ~ Fighter4luv 00:55, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Hobby: Reading
 * Dream: Doctor
 * Weak Points: Giving in to Usagi's crying? (うさぎの泣きおとし)
 * Age: 17 years old
 * School: year 2, Private Azabu Senior High School? (私立元麻布高校二年)
 * Protection Star: The Earth


 * What's a Moon Prism Box? --Masamage 00:58, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It's the official Bishojo Senshi Sailor Moon online source. All in Japanese so it took me a while to translate all their profiles ^_^ It's a new feature on the Sailormoon channel website. ~ Fighter4luv 01:02, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Ohhhh, that thing! I didn't even try. XD Okay, awesome. His manga age, at least, can go in right now, once we figure out how to source that ref. (Strange...in the manga, his and Usagi's age difference is actually slightly less than mine and my husband's. O_o) --Masamage 01:17, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Hehe. What was the reason for making Mamoru older in the anime. Apparently your site says in his twenties... I have no idea what year of College he is in... but he would only be around 19-20 in the first season....?? *shrugs shoulders* ~ Fighter4luv 07:51, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe he's a freshman, which, assuming he was 17 as a second-year high school student (the equivalent of 11th grade in a US high school), would make him 19. Of course that is just a guess. --Masamage 20:50, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I can give you an official anime source verifying that he's the exact same age as he is in the manga. The Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon R: The Movie Memorial Album explcitly states that he is 18 years old (and Usagi is 14 years old) in the first and second seasons, and further states that he was 6 years old and she was 2 during their first meeting at the hospital. You can actually use this information to figure narrow down Shingo's birthdate to within three months, but that's a lot more complicated. :) Lunar Archivist (talk) 21:45, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Wow! This is news to me - does anyone know how would we go about citing the memorial album? WP:SM/REF doesn't cover it, so I'm a little uncertain. -Malkinann (talk) 22:18, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Awesome! I think we should be able to get the info off the internet somehow, from eBay or Wikimoon or something. Either way, we can at least cite the book's title until we have more info. But, isn't Mamoru explicitly a college student in the anime? I know he is later, but I thought he was stated to be so in the first season. Also, it's not the exact same age if he's 17 in the manga and 18 in the anime, the source for the previous fact being cited earlier in this section. --Masamage ♫ 23:26, 14 December 2007 (UTC)


 * You don't need more information, actually. ;) Everything that you require is right here: http://aycu12.webshots.com/image/35811/2001204958856767980_rs.jpg


 * This is a scan of Page 80 of the Pretty Soldier Sailor Moon R Memorial Album (I got the exact title wrong before, my bad.) As far as I can tell, first published on July 30, 1994. ISBN4-06-324553-5. Based on my German translation of this book, the blurb on Mamoru Chiba in the upper right hand corner reads as follows:


 * "As a child he lost his parents. He leads a lonely life. In the original and on television (in Episode 34) he was 6 years old when his parents died. He is now 18 years old and Usagi is 14, i.e. he is 4 years older than her. So Usagi was 2 when they met in the hospital."


 * Please note that the above is the English translation of the German translation of the original, so it might be a bit off, but the basic facts seem to be pretty straightforward. Also, to answer Masamage's question, I can't remember off the top of my head what his academic situation is at the moment. The question was just how old he was. :)


 * As for the age debate from the manga, there are several factors that need to be considered here:
 * I believe the 17/18 figure quoted in the manga comes from Luna's computer screen diplay in Act 4. At the time this was stated, neither she nor the other Sailor Soldiers at the time even knew who he was, so this number is a "guesstimate" at best.
 * Both Usagi and Mamoru's birthdays are roughly in the middle of the year (June 30th and August 3rd). Thus, if you assume that the Dark Kingdom story arcs started around the beginning of the Japanese school year (April) in both the manga and the anime, this means that the two of them were actually 13 years, 9 months and 17 years, 8 months old, respectively, when they first appeared, just short of 14 and 18 years old. This also means that Luna's aforementioned guesstimate was right on the money.
 * Since Usagi's birthday is roughly a month earlier than Mamoru's, this means that, for roughly 34 days in any given year, there's technically only three years age difference separating them.
 * Still, let's not get bogged down with semantics. Hopefully, this information helps. :) Lunar Archivist (talk) 02:43, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Can you please tell us who is listed as the author or editor of the book, and who it's published by? I've had a go at fitting the information you've given us into a citation template below. -Malkinann (talk) 03:13, 15 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I didn't mean for you to stick it all in like that. I just didn't know what was relevant. In any case, I have no idea who the author is, though the German version credits Naoko Takeuchi, Kodansha Ltd., and Toei Animation Co., Ltd. jointly. The publisher is definitely Kodansha Ltd., though. Here's a link to a secondhand book site with more info: http://www.jpqueen.com/onlineshop/productinfo.asp?PID=723
 * I didn't mean for you to stick it all in like that. I just didn't know what was relevant. In any case, I have no idea who the author is, though the German version credits Naoko Takeuchi, Kodansha Ltd., and Toei Animation Co., Ltd. jointly. The publisher is definitely Kodansha Ltd., though. Here's a link to a secondhand book site with more info: http://www.jpqueen.com/onlineshop/productinfo.asp?PID=723


 * Sorry I can't be more help in this case. I don't speak Japanese at all. :( Lunar Archivist (talk) 03:39, 15 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Thanks! I've added in the information above, so it looks fuller now.  I just figured I should stick it all in so we can make the citation look nice on this page whilst waiting for confirmation of the Japanese, and for eventual porting to the SM references list. -Malkinann (talk) 05:03, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Differences between manga and anime
I'm not sure how to put it in the article, but I feel like that the diference in how he acts with the senshi in the two versions isn't really clearly distinguished. The article explicitly says that he often saves Sailor Moon in the nick of time, but in the manga it is more often the other way around at first [then the roles being reversed, isntead of Usagi finally needing to be the one saving him, he feels the need to save her]. I also have some problems with the following things mentioned regarding the manga"

[In Profile:] "After dating for two years, Mamoru gives Usagi a promise ring at an airport. The couple eventually gets married." They never get married, as Mamoru is immediately killed in the manga. Their future selves get married, but even if we consider them the same people a differention should be made. I'm not sure if this happens the same way in the anime.

[In Tuxedo Mask:] "In the manga he starts out as an ordinary thief who is trying to get the Silver Crystal." I don't agree with the characterization of Mamoru as an ordinary thief. He's more searching for the crystal than trying to steal it, and even in the very beginning of the manga he has powers.

Finally, one more. Shouldn't his death be described as a part of profile? It was a very big part of the manga. [Once again, I don't know if he died in the anime.]

Hope I did this right, I don't do much on Wikipedia. Torca


 * Yes, you did it exactly right. :)
 * Regarding the thing about them getting married, they are shown get married at the very end of the manga. I'm not sure what you mean by "future selves"--if you mean, say, Neo-Queen Serenity, then I think the timeline goes that she gets married at 16 but doesn't become the Queen until her early 20s. Not sure why I think that, but maybe someone else will corroborate. X) He does die in the anime, though slightly differently--there's a pretty good writeup at Sailor Stars. Anyway, in both cases he gets resurrected and they marry soon after. (I think the ending sequence of ep. 200 has wedding photos?)
 * The "thief" wording is probably more reflection of how he's seen by the public, rather than who he is. And you're right; this bio needs a lot of help, and we really haven't gotten to it yet. Any help is very appreciated; feel free to give more ideas and to edit the thing yourself. ^^ If you're interested, there's also WikiProject Sailor Moon. --Masamage 08:23, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Ah, well then that differs from the manga, as all of the senshi, including Mamoru, are killed without ressurection. [They are all reborn a millenia later, repeating the events of their previous lives on the moon.] In the final act of the manga there are a few pages showing the future Usagi and Mamoru waking up, with the following dialogue. [Taken from Smile magazine, names changed to their Japanese counterparts]
 * Usagi: Seems like... ...I was watching a long dream.
 * Mamoru: What kind of dream?
 * Usagi: I forgot... [Mamoru]... Can you say it again?
 * Mamoru: I said it 50 times last night.
 * Usagi: Just once more...
 * Mamoru: Last time... Let's get married [Usagi].
 * It then proceeds to show them getting married. However, as indicated by the dialogue [And the previous acts, which show the senshi being thrown into the Galaxy Cauldron to be recycled], these are merely reincarnations of their former selves echoing the movements of their 20th century selves. [It also might suggest that the entire Sailor Moon series was just a dream, but it seems more likely that it was just remembering what had happened.] I never feel comfortable making big edits like this, though, since my grammar and English skills are poor. Torca 00:45, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
 * the photos look like they were taken a few days after episode 200 and there are no wedding photos sailor cuteness-ready for love 17:52, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
 * First, sailor cuteness, I indented your comment. I didn't edit it.  I wanted to reply to Torca's comment without confusing people as to where yours belonged.  Now, regarding Torca's comment... I haven't personally read the end of Stars, only heard reports of it, but there's something I'd like to check.  I've always been given the understanding that normally they WOULD have been recycled, but that Usagi triumphed and managed to rescue them in their present lives.  They're still Usagi and Mamoru, for one thing, and all the questions as to whether Chibi-Usa would be born or not would be moot if Chibi-Usa was from a future incarnation of them rather than their future selves... one or both of them dying wouldn't put her existence into question since it would depend on future lives after they had died anyway.  Neo-Queen Serenity also met Usagi in the manga and did act as though she was that same Usagi once a thousand years ago (not reincarnated and distinct).  I must admit it also makes me feel more like they just won hard-fought happiness if it isn't a case of their lives actually ending to start all over again.  However, perhaps the fact is that that final scene is just so... hazy?... that it's easy to interpret either way.  I realize what Usagi says, but I thought that was either being asleep for a while, skipping over seeing him ask, or living for just long enough in happiness together as to have the natural impulse of "wow, such and such time in my life is over."  I'm just curious... do we have facts about that last part or interpretation? 72.192.237.134 13:16, 28 December 2006 (UTC) Ismail
 * "Facts?" no. I could look for a third party interpertation, I suppose. But it seems to me that the manga had been hinting at it for quite some time. First of all, we know that they rule 30th Century Tokyo at their same ages, but it's never stated exactly how they got eternal youth. Also, and this is a big one that doesn't occur in the anime. both Diamond and Pluto [pre-mortem, of course] say that the exact same thing from different times cannot interact or BOOM. Pluto sacrifices her life to stop it from happening with the silver crystal. However, Usagi and her future self [though it's advised against for the BOOM reason] meet, hold hands, and talk a bit, indicating that they are not in fact the same person.
 * As for the final scenes. Moon asks for everyone's help, to lend her their power. They do so, and we see that sailor crystals have gathered around her, her dead friends' souls. It rips Chaos apart, and ChibiChibi turns into Cosmos. The starseeds ask her if their Princess has sacrificed her life, and Cosmos says, "Your princess has been regenerated like all the other Senshi. Eventually, they will arrive in the 30th century." ... "Eternal Sailor Moon tried to hold down Chaos... ...and melted ino the Cordon with Chaos." A confusing scene is probably where Cosmos tells everyone to return to their home. However, as she was talking to Chibi-usa's future protectors, I take it to mean that they were just reincarnated in a more appropriate time period. Sailor Moon is able to keep her true shape within the Cordon. Sailor Cosmos' fairy starseed mentions Sailor Moon's mother coming to grant her child a new life, and then asks her if she wants to become a star, or be reincarnated as she is : a senshi. Of course, they all say they want to live together, and POOF 30th century. That's my interpretation, at least. Torca 07:06, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * You see the problem, then? You can say that there's an interpretation like that, but unless the scene is quite factually clear on the matter, you can't say that's what definitely happened.  You mention how Usagi and Neo-Queen Serenity met briefly... however, they still mentioned the "risk" even then, and even Neo-Queen Serenity felt there was a risk but wanted to meet Usagi... and they kept it brief.  If they are advised of the "boom," then it's still relevant even if it doesn't happen... otherwise they wouldn't have been advised of it.  Then there's still the fact that Chibiusa seems dependent on Usagi/Mamoru being okay.  The other thing is... they all say they want to be together.... but I've always thought that you experienced a *time jump* then.  In the manga, isn't Chibiusa technically supposed to be 900some years old, and Crystal Tokyo having been around for a long time by the time she's as old as she is during the Nemesis stuff?  Well, that would mean that after the Cauldron stuff goes down, that Naoko jumped forward a little in time to let you see that they were now in the Crystal Palace... but Crystal Tokyo had existed for a long time, so it wasn't necessarily the 30th century yet... and ChibiUsa was conceived.... and in the 30th century she's 900some in age.  I have no problem with things that can be stated as facts being stated as such, but it seems to me that... if nothing else.... NEITHER you or I can be sure about saying that those two are or aren't Usagi and Mamoru as fact.  The article might talk about how that's an interpretation that exists (pointing to a third pary intepretation that cites what you mention) but that things are not certain as written in the manga itself.  You know?  We have to be careful to put verifiable stuff here and to mention any interpretation as interpretation.  That goes for all of us.   72.192.237.134 15:49, 31 December 2006 (UTC)Ismail
 * Well, permanent or not, he still dies, which is [in my opinion] pretty important. The discussion of the ending doesn't really belong on Mamoru's page, but on the Stars Series' page it might be worthwhile to note the two different interpretations of the ending. Torca 21:20, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * If you mean he dies at the airport, yes, he does. I never even mentioned that.  All I'm saying is that *all* of Wikipedia has to keep to verifiable facts and note *any* interpretations as such.  Since the ending is really quite abstract on this point, unless some place has been able to factually spell it out (from the author) it *is* just a matter of interpretation and the interpretations of it should be noted *as* interpretations.  Anyway, all I'm saying is that the article shouldn't take interpretation as fact - which is policy anyway.  I'm sure we've agreed on that, though, so cheers.   72.192.237.134 22:50, 31 December 2006 (UTC) Ismail
 * Hoo...talk about commenting on an ancient debate.
 * Assuming a minimal revision of history due to Sailor Cosmos' influence and a pregnancy lasting as long as your standard human one, you can pin down when the final scene in the manga takes place: roughly nine months before Chibi Usa's birth, i.e. the previous October, around three months after Usagi's 21st birthday. It looks like Usagi and Mamoru just got finished conceiving Chibi Usa when the opening scene of the epilogue begins based on the former's comment about her feeling a new Star Seed inside of her. This means that the founding of Crystal Tokyo actually predates Usagi's ascension to the throne of the Silver Millennium as Neo Queen Serenity. Lunar Archivist (talk) 04:10, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Development note
Walking around an immensely nerdy store this afternoon, I found a copy of Animerica that mentioned Sailor Moon. Specifically, it stated that Takeuchi had based Tuxedo Mask on dark, gritty heroes like Captain Harlock. The issue was September 2003, Vol. 11, No. 9. We'll pop that into the appropriate section along with whatever info we can find. --Masamage ♫ 22:38, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Tuxie is Takeuchi's ideal man :) -Malkinann (talk) 02:23, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * But her type changed... ^^;; Togashi is not like Tuxie, as she said...--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 02:51, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Note taking... until there is an unlock...
Mamoru Chiba is the major romantic interest of Usagi Tsukino. He is often portrayed as stoic, steady and introverted. "This may be because when he was young his parents died in a car crash." Volume 2, Act 6, R movie. '''

This blocked his childhood memories of his current lifetime and opened up the memories of his previous life as Prince Endymion.''' It caused amnesia, but ther is no direct support for a complete block.

When this happened he started to chase after Princess Serenity, an image he sees in his dreams.

Nope, he saw her in his dreams. He didn't start chasing after the ginzuishou, etc until later.

''' Early in the manga, he seeks the Silver Crystal, as he is convinced that this will restore his memories fully. He also is the character that gets brainwashed and captured the most throughout the series.'''
 * Cough* Even by himself in the anime at one point. (That's sad when you are brainwashed by yourself...)

'''Mamoru and Usagi are boyfriend and girlfriend during the series. They were not always on good terms--in both the manga and anime he and Usagi were antagonistic towards each other when they first met and only developed romantic feelings later on.''' Volume 1, Act 1, Usagi throws a test paper at him and he makes fun of it, similar to Episode 1 of the anime.

 For the manga those feelings developed before their identities were discovered Act 3, Volume 1.

; for the anime they showed shortly before their identities were revealed in an elevator. Need Episode #

 Once they became a couple, they became deeply devoted to each other and their love survives many trials. In the manga they briefly show jealousy in Volume 8, Act 25. For example the break up in Episode X, and getting back together in X. Also through the various brainwashing incidents in both the manga and anime. (Citations, Endou/Dark Endymion in Sailormoon, Not remembering in first half of R, the break up in R, The fight in Infinity, missed dates and jealousy in S, the fight in the SuperS movie, Stars and Sailorstars, going to Harvard and subsequent brainwashing by Galaxia in the manga.)

He is always addressed as Mamo-chan by Usagi throughout the series during this time period (Chibiusa also addresses him with this nickname later on). '''After dating for two years, Mamoru gives Usagi an engagement ring at an airport. The couple eventually gets married.''' Volume 16, Act 43.

In the future, they become king and queen and together have a child--Chibiusa.

Technically they call her Small Lady Serenity when they become king and queen. It's Mamoru of the past that calls her Chibiusa in the manga and in the anime Usagi that gives her the nick name, but Chibiusa only accepts it once Mamoru thinks that it's cute. But this isn't easy to resolve.

'''The manga develops Mamoru more extensively, showing that the car crash happened on his birthday and gives a glimpse of his parents. It also shows him in the orphanage with amnesia.''' Volume 2, Act 4 Mamoru also struggles with his identity throughout the manga, first as who he really is, Volume 2, Act 4.

then later if he's in the way of the Sailor Soldiers. Volume 12, Act ?

A fair amount of subtle characterization is made for Mamoru, and later extending his role within the manga as to who he is. Volume 15, Act 42

He also is given the power of psychometry, which also showed up in the anime, but was not given a name. Volume 5, Act 23, Episode (In SMR, second half, first episode?)

This manifests in his ability to see and read dreams (Such as Chibiusa's), heal people and monitor the status of the Earth. This was not fully developed until the Black Moon arc, and was used occasionally throughout the series. Mamoru also has his left ear pierced in the manga, a fashion trait that does not carry over to his anime counterpart.

'''The anime tends not to develop Mamoru as much, however he is shown as more social than his manga counterpart. He's incredibly smart, and interested in a variety of subjects. He also dated Rei Hino for a short time before all the past life identities were revealed, but the relationship did not develop very deeply; Rei and Mamoru broke up after it was discovered that Usagi was Princess Serenity.'''

Super, The episode with the ambassadors from England... ^^;; I don't remember the number. Rei and Mamoru dated about 2 episodes in after Rei was introduced. This is said to be done by Ikuhara on purpose according to Hitoshi Doi's website. In fact, Hitoshi Doi says that most of the changes to Rei in the anime were Ikuni's doing. Rei and Usagi had a heart to heart about the break up in the skiing episode.

'''Tuxedo Mask's importance in the manga is significantly larger. In fact, many of Sailor Moon's transformations and final victories come as a result of her and Tuxedo Mask fusing their powers together. In the final battle against the Dark Kingdom, Queen Metaria absorbed Sailor Moon and Tuxedo Mask into her body. However, they were able to combine their powers through the Silver Crystal to destroy Queen Metaria from within. This was essentially the inspiration for the climax of the Sailor Moon R movie when Tuxedo Kamen transformed into Prince Endymion and helped Sailor Moon use the Silver Crystal to prevent an asteroid from crashing into the Earth. In the second story arc Black Moon, he combined his power with Sailor Moon through the Cutie Moon Rod to kill Prince Demand of the Black Moon Kingdom. In the Infinity story arc, he combined his powers with both Sailor Moon and Sailor Chibimoon to create the Holy Grail, transforming Sailor Moon into Super Sailor Moon.'''

Volume 5, Act 13 for the merging of power with Metaria. However, I never read anything about this being the inspiration for the SMR movie. Ikuni never said anything like that. Need an act number for The Prince Demand. And I don't remember him putting any power into Super Sailor Moon. He did however put in power for Eternal Sailor Moon, lending the power of the Golden Crystal to her. That's Volume 15, Act 42.

'''The major divergence from the manga was in the dreams he was given during the latter half of the Sailor Moon R series. Mamoru listened to those dreams about Usagi dying in the future and was susceptible to them. This changes the perception of the character from his manga counterpart as more sacrificial, rather than stoic and emotionally strong. The anime also tends to make him appear in every episode, saving Sailor Moon's life. He did have a few attacks that resemble what would seem like some of the attacks in the manga, but these are not given actual names within the anime. This makes Mamoru and Tuxedo Mask seem significantly weaker than his manga counterpart.'''

Need wording clean up. Specify the anime otherwise it falls into in-universe. The third sentence is more opinion... even if its disguised opinion. The rest of the paragraph needs basic revision and specific examples. However I don't know what its fishing for and its a touch repetitive with the information before.

'''The dub did not make too many significant changes to his character. He is a bit more extroverted than his original anime counterpart in the voicing. Darien was more likely to yell and get annoyed than Mamoru of the anime, who was often quiet and distant, even when he was annoyed. A line was also added to an episode in the dub that claimed Darien used to be a model, but this was never referred to again. The original line had Mamoru talking about the attractiveness of a girl's character being more important than physical beauty.[citation needed]'''

Better specific examples are needed.

'''In the musicals, Mamoru protects Usagi and is generally by her side. Several of his relationships change from musical to musical, however. For example, in one musical it's revealed that Queen Beryl was Mamoru's fiancé from his time as Prince of the Earth. Associating with the Moon Kingdom was against Earth law, and Endymion violated this law when he associated with Princess Serenity. In this version of events, Serenity and Endymion are outlaws (similar to Romeo and Juliet) who drive an otherwise innocent woman, Beryl, to evil by making her jealous. Sailor Pluto also reveals in several musicals that she is in love with Endymion, though she has contented herself with watching from afar.[2]'''

Specify which musicals. We need a musical buff on the team. Which musical was it that the Queen Beryl thing happened? And what's another example from a specific musical?

'''In the live action version, Mamoru is a much more silent, yet dedicated person. He is in search of the Silver Crystal due to his amnesia and dreams that told him that the magical object could restore his memories. To do this, he donned the Tuxedo Kamen disguise and became a thief, searching for the legendary crystal. Once his memories of his past and present lives were restored, he assumed his Endymion form to help the Senshi and tried his best to protect Usagi from the dangers of overusing the Silver Crystal. However, this went a bit too far when he joined the Dark Kingdom to understand more of the link between the Silver Crystal and Metaria. Learning that the Silver Crystal made Metaria stronger every time Sailor Moon used it, Endymion took Metaria into his body before succumbing to its dark power. Now an evil parody of himself, Dark Prince Endymion, he almost killed Sailor Mercury when Sailor Moon was forced to kill him to stop Metaria. He was revived once Sailor Moon managed to finally control the Crystal's power and destroyed Metaria for good.'''

Second line needs reference. Line after is from episode 1. Need episode # for next sentence and the sentence after. Second to last also needs episode number.

I need to write an go to bed now. But when the page becomes unlocked, most of the references needed are listed above. I did it off the top of my head with manga in hand.

One last note though... Furuya Tohru said that he influenced Tuxedo Mask as a goofy character after he said, "Do you want a ride" which was a reference to an anime... however this is a video interview. Any ideas about how to cite that? I think it belongs in the development section.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 07:09, 5 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Dang unlock happens on the 9th. If its a video interview, just state the name of the video + maybe a site that shows it? I dunno about that. About the musicals, I haven't gotten as far back as ANZA's stage (first stage) but from Shin Densetsu Kourin right up to Mugen Gakuen I probably know most stuff from there. The musical which you are looking for the Beryl Mamoru fiancé thing would be Shin Densetsu Kourin, Fumina's first musical. Sailor Pluto also sang Onna no Ronsou in that musical, arguing with Queen Beryl. Pluto's theme song "Stay Alone" is about how she has to stay alone for eternity due to duties and cannot have love bla bla bla so she contented herself by watching from afar. -- Hana ichi  14:28, 5 February 2008 (UTC)


 * Perhaps video interviews could be cited via cite episode? -Malkinann (talk) 20:32, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Unlocking
I'm going to be bold and unlock this article early. Check the user pages of the "people" whose changes are being reverted--they're all sockpuppets of User:Kagome85, and as such reverting them is a prevention of vandalism, thereby not subject to WP:3RR. --Masamage ♫ 19:45, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Added references, etc
I added a bunch of references, but they probably are messy, so they need a good cleaning. Anyone willing to do so can do so. Also since the references list is getting long, I think its time to split it into the fated two columns. Once the live Action references are in there... well, it'll be fairly long (even with cleaned up references).

I did a general sweep for fan opinions in his profile. Any disputes, go ahead and dispute them. I mainly shifted wording away from he's the coolest character ever in this version to the more neutral voice.

I also added a thing in development from Furuya Tohru-san, but the reference probably isn't in the right order. I can't remember off hand where the "I'm driving" has a reference to, but I'm sure it's from another anime. I think we're almost there... almost to GA with a few grammar sweeps and a few more references. ^_^--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 05:38, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I've removed the youtube link, as it's kind of iffy... -Malkinann (talk) 23:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)


 * I suppose just stating the interview and when was it held is OK for referencing the Furuya Tohru thing.-- Hana ichi  10:13, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

One More section!
Aspects and forms, get the references for that and I think we can request an upgrade for this puppy. 'Bout time. The leading man should get a good rating too.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 05:23, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, we're getting there. I also think there's a little too much plot information in the profile and aspects sections, so let's slim those down while we're at it? --Masamage ♫ 17:48, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm better at references than culling for plot overload. Could you do that Masamage? I'm not sure what the standards are 100%--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 18:05, 22 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Interview with Furuya, placed here for safe-keeping. -Malkinann (talk) 12:40, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Culling and basic edits
I'm just missing a few references. (PGSM). I tried to chop out all of the wrong info, opinionated and anything that seemed misplaced or unnecessarily repetitive. I also cut out run-ons, fragments and other bad grammar. It should be fairly clean by now. Just plug in the rest of the references, and perhaps we can see what we need to do to clean this up for GA. Also can someone cut out the unnecessary plot info. I did what I could... but it's still a bit too detailed.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 22:52, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
 * One comment: I cannot figure out what the Furuya Tohru paragraph under "development" is talking about. I get that it's saying the character became more comical because of the voice actor's ad-libbing, but beyond that I'm confused. --Masamage ♫ 02:33, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a reference to another anime. I have to re-find the interview to remember which anime/Sentai series it was. Probably could use it for clarification.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 20:40, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Crap, a note said it was related to one of his previous characters. O.o;; But which one, he had some many roles before SM!!!--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 19:56, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Prince Endymion
"He and Princess Serenity fell in love, and often disobeyed their parents when it came to seeing one another"

What's this about them "disobeying their parents"? To my knowledge, whe never even get to hear about Prince Endymion's parents, and it was never explicitely said in the anime or manga, as far as I know, that Queen Serenity herself had told her daughter not to meet with Endymion. Did this come from one of the musicals or something?

On the other hand, shouldn't it be added that Prince Endymion lived in Elysion, the Golden Kingdom, according to Elios in the manga? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.115.239.96 (talk • contribs)


 * Yeah, it shouldn't mention their parents per se; what that's probably referring to is the statement that contact between the Earth and the moon is "forbidden". And I think a mention of Elysion would be great. --Masamage ♫ 17:32, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Okay, (me again, just from another computer) I just corrected it and added the Elysion part, with a reference for good measure. Hope I did fine with it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.136.126.60 (talk) 20:47, 27 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm fixing this because 1. It's mentioned in the aspects and forms of the previous paragraph. 2. The manga doesn't confirm anywhere that Elysion is in the middle of the Earth, just below the surface of the Earth, which is NOT the same thing 3. Elysion occupies where the Golden Kingdom used to be, but that's not the same thing either. The Golden Kingdom and Elysion are not the same.


 * Here's the crucial quotes for discerning:
 * "Prince, your kinsmen have always protected this shrine. And Elysion. This is the place where your dead kingdom, the Golden Kingdom, used to be."


 * "The Golden Kingdom...!" thinks Mamoru. "Yes... I know this place. The same winds as on the surface blow through the thick green of this sacred land that guards this planet, Elysion. I lived in this land, and I loved this place."


 * "That's right," says Helios. "From here, you went to the surface and protected this planet. Deep in this shrine, I offered my prayers to protect this planet. We never met each other, but our souls were always one. Our wishes were always one. And with the destined meeting of you two, again, we had the same wish. In your separate places, you couldn't be together. Then, too, the two of you shared the same mission, the same power, the same soul."
 * Sorry, but that puppy needs to be edited out or down... and I'm bent on getting this article up to GA. BTW, check what you're referencing before you reference it.... sometimes we remember facts wrong or remember them through fan filters.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 22:08, 28 June 2008 (UTC)


 * What's GA? I did check. The rest you edited wasn't mine, but from what you did edit, I said Elysion protected the earth from within, not that it was in the middle. You're right about Elysion and the Golden Kingdom not being necessarily the same, though. So we could fix it: "He resided in the Golden Kingdom, which used to be in Elysion".
 * Why was the Shittenou part edited?
 * I'm going to be bold and edit it so it does state the relation between the Golden Kingdom and Elysion, whatever that may be, as it was said in the manga (and your quote). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.137.18.61 (talk) 22:59, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Eh, this is strange. The sentence: "Endymion also had four guardians, the Shitennou, who protected him", does show up when I go to the edit page, but not when I go back to the actual article. Is it happening to you as well? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.137.18.61 (talk) 23:06, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Hitsuji Kinno, in good faith: I wasn't intending to make stuff up. If you find the wording is off, why don't you change it instead of erasing the whole sentence? I'm sure a proper wording of the relation between Elysion and the Golden Kingdom can be found, to everyone's satisfaction. How would you word it instead; "was located in the same land that is now Elysion?", or as literal as the manga: "He resided in the Golden Kingdom, and Elysion is the place where this kingdom used to be"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.253.208.169 (talk) 22:13, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I think something like that sounds perfect. --Masamage ♫ 22:21, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Besides References...
Are we missing anything out of this article. 'cause it looks like the references are filled up.... (except for two, explanation for one (as above) and the Moonlight Mask one, which I think we could cut since there is no tracking reference.) Is there a major reason this is assessed at C v. B?--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 15:59, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * C-class is new, when it came in all B-class articles were automagically reassessed to C. It wasn't demoted by a person for being lacking or anything, it was just a book-keeping thing.  A reassessment can be requested from WP:ANIME/ASSESS, or we could just try for GA. -Malkinann (talk) 21:21, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Let's try for GA.... just for the sake of seeing what's lacking. It'll probably go back to a B class.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 23:48, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I have assessed the article as per the request at WP:ANIME/ASSESS. The most serious items have been identified in comments in the banner, but I will list them here as well.
 * B1 (Referencing and citation): Use consistent formatting, not all references are clear (e.g. Episode 34 of ?)
 * B2 (Coverage and accuracy): Reception seems too short
 * B3 (Structure): Lead is too short, many paragraphs are too short, do not use paragraphs with only one or two sentences, resort sections per WP:MOS-ANIME
 * I will monitor this page for comments, I will recommend adddressing the issues and listing the article at WikiProject Anime and manga/Peer review for more detailed comments before going for GA.
 * Regards, G.A.S 05:53, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Working on B1 with the project group... I tried to defeat B3. I made three sentences each. Would someone please give it a second pass? I fixed some grammar too. For reception does anyone have any ideas. We're *almost* there.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 19:20, 22 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Let's see. Anything that talks about him influencing the creation of other characters? And do any of the reliable sources go into the "tuxy" and "capeboy" stuff--ie. how Westerners mostly make fun of him? --Masamage ♫ 16:37, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
 * In series there is Tuxedo Umino Kamen... Where Umino dressed up as him. Also one could say there is a strong similarity to Kaitou Ace, another Takeuchi-sensei character who also started on the "wrong" side and was a thief. That's the best I can pull out.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 19:38, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

I fixed the references for the episodes. >.< Damned difficult and boring... but they are all plugged in. This should fix B1 issue. B2 should be covered with the added paragraph about influences. And the lead should look better with more than 3 sentences each paragraph. Could someone take a second look at those parts and then renominate for B class?--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 05:52, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


 * I am still watching this page, no need to renominate;) Some more issues:
 * "He is best known as he appears in the anime — a mysterious, rose-throwing source of encouragement."—best known by...? Cite please.
 * "He wears a mask to conceal his identity, interferes with enemy operations, and offers the Senshi advice, sometimes physically aiding them in battle."—sentence structure needs work (it is fragmented).
 * "Although the Sailor Senshi are all female,"—This part does not quite fit, please rework.
 * "and is the primary"—the sentence structure does not allow for "and is"—please rework.
 * "--" replace with em dash(—) or spaced en dash ( – ).
 * "The couple eventually gets married."—can you be more specific?
 * "Tuxedo Mask's importance in the manga is significantly larger."—than...?
 * Please avoid paragraphs which displays as only one line (i.e. shorter than 50 words, avoid paragraphs shorter than 100 words, if possible), combine them with other paragraphs, or expand them.
 * References still need work, e.g. ref 20 to 25 only display the show name and episode number. Please use cite episode and complete the following parameters title, episodelink, serieslink, number, airdate, e.g.

displays
 * Regards, G.A.S 06:31, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * After the previous fixes, the article seems very close to B class.
 * The reference issues have been mostly fixed by now, only a few remains.
 * I would recommend reordering the article according to WP:MOS-ANIME, though I understand that other Sailor Moon articles uses the current layout.
 * If possible, a "creation" section should be added.
 * I would say a copy edit is required for GA purposes (i.e. to get the look and feel of the article right—compare this article's look and feel to Gaara, for instance) — the structure is fine for B class purposes
 * I am concerned that there is too much "in-universe" content as opposed to "out-of-universe" content, though this may only be an issue at GA review.
 * Your comment?
 * G.A.S 20:36, 29 August 2008 (UTC)


 * The creation section is called Development. --Masamage ♫ 06:49, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * So it is;) G.A.S 07:16, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hee hee. So, here's a question; should we be removing some of the IU-information to make more of a "balance," or what? Because all the OOU information we have is getting placed in the Development and Reception sections right now. Do those sections just maybe need to be longer? --Masamage ♫ 23:51, 31 August 2008 (UTC)


 * In my opinion, those sections should be a bit longer, if possible. (Whether to remove information, I recommend asking AnmaFinotera, but at last count, about 80% of article content seems plot related, as opposed to 66% in Gaara, I believe a similar split should be appropriate here).
 * A lot of the information in Development is not yet cited, and may seem like OR at a GA review (though true or likely — are there sources that say it is intentional?).
 * G.A.S 05:34, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

(←) Outstanding issues before B-class upgrade (16:09, 1 September 2008 (UTC)):
 * Cite development section.
 * "He is best known as he appears in the anime — a mysterious, rose-throwing source of encouragement."—best known by...? Cite please.

Regards, G.A.S 16:09, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Reworded, and added reference. I took out the opinion "best" and added a reference to episode 1. Anything else missing?--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 20:53, 1 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I swapped it back. :/ The statement was supposed to explaining that he's known to the world as his anime version, not his manga version. The rewritten version just explained who his anime version was, and that's a statement that doesn't need to be made right there in the lead. I think we should either cite the existing claim that he's more well known as he appears in the anime, or remove it entirely. The former is preferable, of course, but may not be possible. --Masamage ♫ 01:49, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Let's remove it for now and then find the source for the statement then rework it in? That will at least get us the B class for now. ^^;; Yes, a bit of greed.--Hitsuji Kinno (talk) 02:02, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I can agree with that. So, for posterity, the sentence was: "He is best known as he appears in the anime — a mysterious, rose-throwing source of encouragement." --Masamage ♫ 14:40, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Metalia Endymion
In PGSM when Endymion absorbs Queen Metalia into his body he becomes the being know as Metalia Endymion. Thoughts? --Buritanii (talk) 14:09, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * We currently have it credited as Dark Prince Endyimon. If you can find a source for either it would be helpful. Lego3400: The Sage of Time (talk) 18:26, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, the article itself currently identifies him as Metaria Endymion, and that's what I remember them calling hmi in the show. Looks like the infobox is wrong. I'll fix it. --Masamage ♫ 00:16, 4 November 2008 (UTC)