Talk:Twelveheads Press

Cornish publishers
I just would like to say that I started this page but have no connection whatsoever with the company. I edit on all subjects to do with Cornwall - Twelveheads happens to be the first publisher I decided to add. THANKS Talskiddy (talk)

Notability
I would like to add my two-pennyworth. I am in no way connected with this publisher, other than as a purchaser of some of their books. It is bizarre to claim that this publisher does not merit a WP article. The books are potential sources of many WP articles and the existence of this page indicates exactly what value one should give to references to Twelveheads books. I wish there were similar concise articles for many more small specialist publishers, especially those dealing with local history. Please HANGON. Vernon White '''. . . Talk''' 19:02, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

The notability tag does not mean the article is nominated for speedy deletion, so I have removed the hangon tag. It means that there is a need for better references to reliable, independent sources which refer to the company (other than just refering to the books). I also own some of their books, and agree that it could have an article, but evidence of notability is required. See WP:CORP for more information. —  Tivedshambo  (t/c) 19:21, 23 November 2008 (UTC)


 * They have produced 'high quality' 'specialist' books for over 25 years Talskiddy (talk)


 * Unfortunately, longevity does not imply notability. Can you find any independent reviews of the company (not reviews of their books), either on-line or in newspapers, etc.? Or have they won any publishing awards? I tried Googling them yesterday, but although there are a lot of hits, these all seem to be book references. I'm sure such references exist, as the company has been around for some time, but I couldn't find them. Any help would be appreciated. —  Tivedshambo  (t/c) 20:34, 23 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I did a wiki search and found over 20 articles that cite Twelveheads books - I have linked these to the main article. Most websites I Goggled are commercial ones- but I'm still looking. Talskiddy (talk)


 * Thank you, User:Tivedshambo for being an extremely active and diligent Admin. However, you do not respond to my point above, that the article enables a user to evaluate other articles, citing Twelveheads publications. The notability guide-lines, do not, I expect count this benefit yet, but anyone who uses a variety of printed sources, including those from small publishers, will value articles that tell them something useful about the publishers and whether they are likely to provide good clean information.   Vernon White  . . . Talk 20:49, 23 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I'm sure this article will be useful, but the fact remains that Wikipedia guidelines do require a subject to show notability. "It's useful" in itself does not meet this criteria. —  Tivedshambo  (t/c) 21:28, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

But "Guidelines" are not rules. Guidelines cannot cover every eventuality. "Notability"` is not an absolute - it is in the eye of the user. I am a user of the Cornish and Maritime History WP articles and say that anything that can, in those field, identify sources that provide reliable, verifiable information is notable i.e. that I am glad to find any information about that source. Perhaps you have no interest in those topics. Please could you hold your horses? Vernon White '''. . . Talk''' 21:35, 23 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Indeed, guidelines are not rules, and we are anyway allowed to ignore all rules in the interests of improving the encyclopædia. I think that having an article about a publisher whose works are likely to be cited in articles does improve the encyclopædia. DuncanHill (talk) 21:38, 23 November 2008 (UTC)


 * (edit conflict) Don't panic - I'm not intending to delete the article, nor should it be speedily deleted. But as it stands, it could be nominated for deletion, in which case it would be discussed by the community over several days. I'm sure the evidence for notability is out there, it just needs to be found. Good luck! —  Tivedshambo  (t/c) 21:41, 23 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I don't see why we should rush around seeking some electronic evidence on notability. Three editors have asserted the article is notable. The Trelissick Garden bookshop had a wide range of Twelveheads books on display, this afternoon. Wouldn't it be a good thing for User:Talskiddy to spend his/her time producing some more useful and interesting articles on Cornish publishers, such as Cornwall Editions and Alison Hodge Vernon White  . . . Talk 22:17, 23 November 2008 (UTC)


 * The choice is yours - but I can say from experience that unless some evidence of notability is added, it will struggle to get through WP:AfD if it gets nominated. —  Tivedshambo  (t/c) 22:25, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

So as the article already has two categories indicating it is a stub, can the defacing "may not satisfy guide-lines" tag be removed, please? The tag implies that the article has many undisclosed failings, other than one Admin. is not interested in this topic. Can we consider what guide-lines might be developed for the notability of articles on publishers and their benefits to encyclopediographers and bibliographers? How can the article be improved so that it may be deemed "good"? Vernon White '''. . . Talk''' 08:36, 24 November 2008 (UTC)


 * For information about the criteria for good articles, see Good article criteria. This page will need a lot of work to reach that standard - as a minimum it will need to be a lot broader in its coverage. For example, when was the company founded, who founded it, development of the company, how many employees does it have, etc. For GA status, it these facts will need to be cited from reliable sources. If these sources are independent, then the issue of notability will be resolved. —  Tivedshambo  (t/c) 19:54, 25 November 2008 (UTC)


 * All of these are now in place, but the article is still a stub and therefore more will be added in good time. Stub says A stub is an article containing only a few sentences of text which is too short to provide encyclopedic coverage of a subject, but not so short as to provide no useful information. So I thinks its unfair to use the   tag at this early stage. Talskiddy (talk)
 * Twelveheads has responded to an email enquiry: "Twelveheads Press is not a conventional publishing house in the usual sense, but are three friends who publish subjects that interest us. Their own knowledge ensures that the books are authentic and accurate. Whilst they try not to lose money on books because they do not rely on Twelveheads Press for their living they can afford to reject manuscripts that are not to the standards they want and expect. It is only the support of the reading public that has kept them in business for over 30 years." I will ask the respondent if his name may be published on the WP article. Vernon White  . . . Talk 10:27, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
 * OKd if transposed to first person Vernon White  . . . Talk 11:15, 27 November 2008 (UTC)

Issue of notability
The above discussion begun about a year ago looks like adequate proof of moderate notability and likely to be of interest to the many many people who have reasons for informing themselves about Cornwall. So the notice has gone (there was a similar argument over Shambhala Publications).--Felix Folio Secundus (talk) 11:53, 3 October 2009 (UTC)