Talk:Twelves/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Spinixster (talk · contribs) 04:06, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello! I will be reviewing this article. As this is my first time reviewing an article, I may make some mistakes; you are welcome to correct me. Reviews will be put under the GABox soon.

Infobox and lead

 * Infobox looks good, image has a valid non-free use rationale.
 * For the lead, I would suggest merging some sentences together as it feels awkward to read. For example:
 * Latino received criticism for posting the image, and the Brazilian Institute of Environment and Renewable Natural Resources (Ibama) released a statement which said that the singer would be held responsible for the post.


 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  13:30, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I would put Ibama in all caps as it's an acronym. You can do so for the other Ibamas that appear in the article.
 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  13:30, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Is there a source that says Twelves is a robust capuchin monkey specifically? It isn't mentioned anywhere else; the body says Twelves is a capuchin monkey.
 * It was wrong in the body. Sources say it's a pt:macaco-prego (robust capuchin monkey). Skyshifter   talk  13:30, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Early life

 * I would recommend expanding the IBAMA acronym again in the first paragraph because the only part that explains the acronym is in the lead, and per MOS:LEAD, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article.
 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  23:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ... the singer's fascination with the number 12, also because Twelves was born on "12/12/12". Change the comma to "and" and don't italicize Twelves. Also would suggest adding the first ref at the end of the sentence because the source used doesn't mention "12/12/12".
 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  23:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * He asked me, "what do you want as a present?"... It should be clarified that "he" in this quote is the businessman who worked with him. You can do it like: [Businessman who worked with Latino] asked me, "what do you want as a present?"...
 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  23:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ... However, he thought the monkey was a cheap thing, not knowing that one of these costs about 120,000 to 150,000 Brazilian reais.
 * This translation seems too literal. I don't know Portugese, so you can correct me, but I think "However, he thought the price of a monkey was low, not knowing that one could cost around 120,000 to 150,000 Brazilian reals." could work.


 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  23:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, I think it's actually reals, per the Wikipedia article.


 * The real article does mention reals, but it only uses reais when referring to the plural. I think it's more natural. Skyshifter   talk  23:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I would move the blockquote to be right after the third paragraph because it is weird to bring up the quote after the information about the monkey's name and the microchip.
 * Did a different move, but should be better Skyshifter   talk  23:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Is the person who gifted Twelves a businessman who worked with Latino, like in reference 3, or is he Latino's former manager, as said in reference 7?
 * I didn't find that mention in source 7, but it should be the businessman. Skyshifter   talk  23:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The couple had all the necessary Ibama documentation,... I would change it to something like "The couple had all the documents required by IBAMA".
 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  23:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I think an explanation as to why they needed documents by IBAMA and a pet microchip here would help.
 * Added what IBAMA is. I think the pet microchip was optional. Skyshifter   talk  23:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The following month for his second birthday, there was a "super party" and it was televised and featured celebrity guests, including other monkeys. I would separate the sentence and rephrase a bit, something like: "For Twelves's birthday the following month, a "super party" was hosted. The event was broadcast live on television and featured celebrity guests, including other monkeys." I used 's after Twelves because of WP:'S.
 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  23:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * On July 14, 2015, Latino and Rayanne separated, leaving the animal with the singer...
 * I would change "leaving the animal with the singer" to "leaving the animal to be in custody of the singer".


 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  23:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Also would use Morais instead of Rayanne for this sentence and the next, per MOS:SURNAME.


 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  23:52, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Controversy and disappearance

 * For the first sentence, I would remove 's from hookah's mouthpiece.
 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  12:17, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Assuming that the original caption was in Portuguese because I can't access the source, I would recommend either put the original caption before the translated one, like this: The caption read: "Original caption" ("Translated caption"). or clarify that the caption is translated, like The translated caption read: "Translated caption"
 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  12:17, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You can use other words for "criticize" because it is repetitive to use it several times.
 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  12:17, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * What exactly did his followers criticized him for? It would help to clarify to the readers.
 * Added that they called Latino "irresponsible". Skyshifter   talk  12:17, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Like the former point, maybe a quote from Luisa Mell criticizing the post would help to show what aspect she had criticized. An example I can think of is the final paragraph's first sentence in When We Are in Need.
 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  12:17, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The lead mentioned that IBAMA said the singer would be held responsible for the post, but it's not mentioned in the body. I would recommend adding the information.
 * It's mentioned on the 2nd paragraph. Skyshifter   talk  12:17, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * For the first sentence of the third paragraph, I would use "suddenly disappeared" instead.
 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  12:17, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * A large search party force... would remove the word "party" since it's redundant
 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  12:17, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * After searching through woods and streams and more than 30 condominiums... change to "... woods, streams, and more than..."
 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  12:17, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * the monkey was found in a residence near the Jacarepaguá Airport lake, the next day. Assuming that the lake is not named or is owned by Jacarepaguá Airport but rather a lake near the airport, it should be clarified.
 * Removed Skyshifter   talk  12:17, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Death

 * "very sad, inconsolable and not talking to anyone" I would change "not talking to anyone to "does not want to talk to anyone", it makes more sense.
 * It makes sense with "Latino was [...] not talking to anyone", no? Skyshifter   talk  12:51, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Skyshifter Yes, but sad and inconsolable are adjectives, and not talking to anyone is past continuous, so grouping them together is strange. The option I presented is another way to phrase the sentence. Spinixster   (chat!)  09:36, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  18:26, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Oh, someone just reminded me of this. Unfortunately, you might have to paraphrase the quotes because they are translated. If you find a source that translates the quotes into English, you can use that instead.
 * For example, instead of Latino's agent stated that the singer was "very sad, inconsolable and not talking to anyone". you'll have to do Latino's agent stated that he was inconsolable and did not want to talk to anyone. Spinixster   (chat!)  10:26, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Do you have the policy that says this must be done? This doesn't make sense to me. Skyshifter   talk  18:26, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
 * @Skyshifter I have decided that since the quotes aren't really a big problem and can be sorted out later, I'll be passing the article. I'll be sure to let you know once there's a concrete answer to my concern. Spinixster   (chat!)  15:09, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Same as the second point of the Controversy and disappearance for the caption in this section.
 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  12:51, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I think you should remove the blockquote for this section. I don't think it really serves any purpose.
 * Reduced the quote, but I think it's important to show how Latino misses Twelves, I guess. Skyshifter   talk  12:51, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Treatment and personality

 * Like the last section, I would remove the blockquote as it doesn't really serve any purpose here.
 * Reduced quote. I think it's relevant to show how they "treat him like a son" and how that even "postponed their plans of becoming parents".
 * His monthly costs, around one thousand Brazilian reais, generated controversy. Monthly costs for what? Generated controversy for what? This part should be clarified. Something like "The monthly costs to take care of Twelves, which is around one thousand Brazilian reals, generated controversy as (reason)."
 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  12:51, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Latino also hired a private nanny for the animal, which was described as a "restless and noisy" creature and an "enlightened animal" for his dangerous behavior. I don't think the second part fits the sentence well, one part mentioning that Latino hired a private nanny for him, the other describing his personality. I would pair the second part with the next sentence since it seems quite short. Example: "Described as a "restless and noisy" creature and an "enlightened animal" for his dangerous behavior, he often went out for walks."
 * ✅ Skyshifter   talk  12:51, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Perhaps a better sentence combination would help. I would mention the treatment first (from Twelves was treated similarly to a human baby to the end of the first paragraph and the second paragraph minus the sentence mentioned before), then personality, then the last sentence of the third paragraph. Then, in a new paragraph, the monkey's publicity and popularity (the first sentence of the first paragraph and the rest of the third paragraph).
 * ✅, I think. Skyshifter   talk  12:51, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Overall/other comments

 * I noticed that this article seems to be a translation of the article in Portuguese. I understand that translating articles is hard; I've gone through it myself, but I would suggest checking the article to see if there are any other translation mistakes or unclear sentences. Sometimes, translating the prose literally won't give the best result. If you need help, I recommend reading WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/How to.
 * Thanks! This article was actually translated by fellow Brazilian RodRabelo7, though I'm the one who created and raised it to GA status on pt.wiki. I'm not very good with English though, so if needed, I will send it to GOCE. Skyshifter   talk  12:51, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * This is probably not needed for GA, but I would recommend translating the titles of the references.
 * Will keep as-is for now. Skyshifter   talk  12:51, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I would set url-access-level to subscription for ref 11.
 * It's actually url-access limited. ✅ for all Veja articles. Skyshifter   talk  12:51, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Although the images are okay, I think the captions can be improved. You can check WP:CAP for that.
 * Not sure how I can improve them. Skyshifter   talk  12:51, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I take it back; the captions are fine as they are. Spinixster   (chat!)  11:05, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

I will be putting the article on hold for now. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. Spinixster  (chat!)  11:37, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
 * All issues were resolved. Skyshifter   talk  12:51, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thank you for letting me know. I will be looking over the article again now. Spinixster   (chat!)  09:11, 13 August 2023 (UTC)
 * There's an error on ref 26; I have fixed it for you. Spinixster   (chat!)  11:10, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you reviewing this article :) Skyshifter   talk  12:25, 15 August 2023 (UTC)