Talk:U.S.–Iraq Status of Forces Agreement

Strategic Framework Agreement
On the Multi-National Forces Iraq website, there are links to two different documents regarding U.S.-Iraqi relations. The first is the SOFA (the White House version we already have a link to); the second is a Strategic Framework Agreement which seems to be a different document entirely. Where should mention be made of this document? Lawrencema (talk) 00:26, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It could briefly be mentioned here, at Iraq–United States relations, Iraq War, etc. but it seems it would be most appropriate for it to also have its own article since it was a distinct document.--Nosfartu (talk) 03:24, 3 December 2008 (UTC)


 * If you want to start the article, this is a bit of information that could be used:"Parliament also passed another U.S.-Iraqi bilateral pact called the Strategic Framework Agreement, aimed at ensuring international cooperation, constitutional rights, and cooperation in the areas of energy development, environmental hygiene, health care, information technology, communications and law enforcement."--Nosfartu (talk) 03:31, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

What about the agreement itself?
This article mainly deals with the negotiation and passing of the agreement. Shouldn't there be a section which lays down what the agreement actually contains as well? 92.1.41.230 (talk) 19:15, 4 December 2008 (UTC) Veer, 04/12/08.
 * You'd be encouraged to start one. As different parties are interpreting the text differently, it would be well advised to quote directly and attribute the information to the source directly. There's a link to the full document in the external links section.--Nosfartu (talk) 03:59, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

December 14 Press Conference
I deleted this section as it dealt entirely with the throwing of shoes at the U.S. president and did not even mention the security agreement at all! If Bush and Maliki talked about the agreement during the press conference, then that can be included in the article, but at the moment it doesn't warrant its own section. Lawrencema (talk) 03:41, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * This incident is notable. It was at the event and it has had extreme coverage by the media.  There was no reason to delete the section so I've restored it.  Azure Fury   (talk | contribs) 04:01, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * It was originally included under the referendum section because it happened after the pact was approved and because it was relevant to public opinion in the upcoming referendum. Placing it under Iraqi reaction seems alright though.--70.224.16.81 (talk) 04:10, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Can I please have a quote linking the incident to Iraqi opinion on the referendum? It was my understanding the thrower was a Shi'ite, and Shi'ite opposition to any agreement has already been established.Lawrencema (talk) 04:14, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The article points out that many in Mosul were supportive of the throwing, for example.--70.224.16.81 (talk) 04:24, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Which article? Please link the support of the throwing to the referendum.Lawrencema (talk) 04:31, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The press conference was about Bush and Maliki's unity on the SOFA, while the throwing was about opposition to perceived U.S. domination. If you need a source for this, I am not sure what to say.--70.224.16.81 (talk) 04:33, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Still waiting on link to Iraqi opinion on the referendum...Lawrencema (talk) 04:36, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Have you done any background research material on this yourself? I only ask since you first didn't even know this happened at the press conference about the SOFA.--70.224.16.81 (talk) 04:37, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * As the editor wanting to add a lot of unrelated material, the onus is on you.Lawrencema (talk) 04:39, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Would unrelated be an unsubstantiated POV? "'Arriving here on Sunday for a surprise farewell visit, President Bush staunchly defended a war that has taken far more time, money and lives than anticipated, but he received a taste of local resentment toward his policies when an Iraqi journalist hurled two shoes at him at a news conference.'" "But with the conclusion of this agreement . . . it is decidedly on its way to being won.' Just after Bush finished his remarks and said 'Thank you' in Arabic, an Iraqi journalist took off his shoes and threw them at Bush, one after the other"Do you need a source that this is one of Bush's policies (namely the one he was trumpeting directly before the incident)?--70.224.16.81 (talk) 04:41, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * From reading the sources you've used, it seems like a lot of the support is due to general opposition to Bush for starting the war (and the occupation), rather than the specifically about the security agreement. I haven't read a quote from any Iraqi which even mentions the agreement. That's why I'm asking for quotes. I'm sorry if I seem dense, but I'd like to see direct quotes, rather than indirect implicationsLawrencema (talk) 04:47, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * If you have read the article, you would see the pact is viewed as an extension of the occupation by many Iraqis. "Although that action was not expressed in a civilized manner, it showed the Iraqi's feelings, which oppose American occupation" said Dr. Qutaiba Rajaa, a 58-year old physician. Iraqis felt Bush was talking about extension of the occupation (SOFA). They are one and the same. --70.224.16.81 (talk) 04:55, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Ok, then add it to the article. If you have a point, and an editor disputes it, add citations which clearly spell out your point. Not all readers are experts on the topic, and not everyone will automatically make links which aren't spelt out in the article.Lawrencema (talk) 04:58, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Sincere apologies. The article should make it very clear why it is relevant and establish context, but it wasn't doing a good enough job. The lead spells out the pact being seen as a possible extension to occupation though, and now there is also a ref showing the incident was at a press conference about the pact. Hopefully the addition of the transcript and this discussion this will make it clear for others, and my apologies for not writing in an understandable way.--70.224.16.81 (talk) 05:01, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The thrower also worked for what has been perceived as a pro-Sunni news outlet.--70.224.16.81 (talk) 04:27, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The best way to solve the undue weight problem to a somewhat unrelated incident would be to have a section on Bush's trip, was to sign the document and show unity with the Iraqi gov on the pact. Within that it would be appropriate to mention the incident and link to the shoe-thrower. Joshdboz (talk) 12:24, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Some more information along these lines was added.--70.224.16.81 (talk) 18:20, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Signings of the agreement
Two comments: First, can someone explain why the agreement was signed twice (once by the ambassador and the foreign minister in November, and again by the respective heads of state on December 14)? Secondly, can we get a photo of either signing ceremony? Lawrencema (talk) 23:01, 16 December 2008 (UTC)


 * I believe they were both simply symbolic ceremonial signings or photo opportunities for the press, but your guess is as good as mine. Ratification by Iraq's Presidency Council was supposed to be the last step legal step required for Iraqi approval of the document though, if that is what you were asking.
 * Photo of Bush and Maliki signing
 * Photo (1) of Crocker and Zebari signing
 * Photo (2) of Crocker and Zebari signing
 * High quality public domain images are a bit lacking, and these links might eventually break.
 * --70.224.16.81 (talk) 00:36, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Please add the following explaination as to why Iraq did not sign the SOFA: "To complicate things even more and to make them even less palatable, Obama insisted that the immunity provisions would have to be approved by the Iraqi Parliament, not just by the Prime Minister’s office, as is often the case. Once the Iraqi Parliament got involved in the negotiations, things would become extremely complicated and difficult, if not impossible." Citation: Human Events; Iraq Status of Forces Agreement; By: Major Gen. Jerry R. Curry 11/29/2011 07:45 AM — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.3.41.79 (talk) 23:34, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

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