Talk:U.S. Route 12 in Michigan/Archive 1

Untitled comments
I would just like to point out that Michigan Avenue never goes anywhere near Belle Isle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.213.66.187 (talk) 23:05, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

Same Road?
Is it really accurate to say that the Michigan Avenue in Detroit and the Michigan Avenue in Chicago are in any way related? They wold never be related. From what I can tell, the Michigan road loses the name Michigan Ave. around Kalamazoo and never regains it, while the Chicago version is just a part of the grid system that peters out in the south suburbs. Triphook 20:14, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Good question. It may well just be a coincidence. The road from Detroit to Kalamazoo also went by Territorial Road and I think portions were part of the Red Arrow highway. older ≠ wiser 23:18, 10 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Bkonrad, You're correct about the Red Arrow highway and Territorial Road bits, one or the other is the usual name for the road in Van Buren and Berrien Counties. Also, there are still portions of the old Michigan Avenue that are still named "Michigan Avenue" even to the west of the Kalamazoo/Calhoun county line.  In Van Buren Co. (Paw Paw), and Kalamazoo Co. (near Galesburg, and even part of downtown Kalamazoo) the road is still named Michigan Avenue for at least part of its route. But I can't find anything west of Paw Paw that still calls it that.Derek Balsam(talk) 00:49, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * As I recall, Michigan Ave. in Chicago was so named because it used to run along the lakeshore when the city was first platted.Triphook 04:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

5 Spokes
I returned the live page to the original pre-Aug06 version regarding the 5 spokes where Jefferson Ave was replaced with Fort St. Additionally, this makes it match with the bio for Augustus Woodward. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.40.47.27 (talk) 01:09, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Helpful reference
I found a reference that might be helpful in the article. – Detcin (talk) 15:44, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Eastern terminus of US 12
For Google Maps, it shows that US 12 ends at Woodward Avenue.

Are there any sources that say US 12 really ends at Cass Avenue in Detroit? No end sign is showing up at that location in Google Street View. AlphaBeta135 (talk) 18:13, 12 October 2020 (UTC)
 * MDOT's Physical Reference Finder will show that they do not own/maintain Michigan Avenue east of Cass, which means US 12 ends there. Google is in error.  Imzadi 1979  →   22:10, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

"Augustus Woodward, the first Chief Justice of the Michigan Territory and self-taught urban planner, drew up the city's first master plan to rebuild the fire-ravaged city. The main features of this plan still exist today, in particular the radial roads issuing from Campus Martius, the center of downtown." See UltrafastPED (talk) 16:48, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
 * yes, Michigan Avenue starts at Campus Martius, but US 12 does not terminate there.  Imzadi 1979   →   01:10, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

In this USEnds website, there used to be a visible "End US 12" sign (which was in Cass/Michigan) beginning in 2015. However, it was taken down in 2017. I have no idea why it was removed. AlphaBeta135 (talk) 02:33, 1 January 2021 (UTC)

Camelback bridge west of Mottville
The links that I had combine to show where it was built, what it was, when it was built, and when it was bypassed. It is one of the most obvious landmarks on US-12 (old US-112) in southern rural Michigan. The links have pictures of the bridge.

Is this trivial? Concrete camelback bridges are rare, as most have been demolished. This one remains in existence. A photo would be nice to have here. I have photos of this bridge, but I do not know how to download them.

It is structurally solid, but simply inadequate for modern trucks due to its narrowness. It is well outside any zone of urban redevelopment, so it is likely to stick around indefinitely.

The site to which I now have as a reference shows a photo of the bridge. This road has few notable landmarks in rural areas west of Interstate 69, and this one is impossible to ignore.Pbrower2a (talk) 15:36, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 * HistoricBridges.org is a self-published source. We're not supposed to use SPSs on articles, and using one is grounds to fail a Good Article. All of what you say, doesn't matter if we can't use the source.  Imzadi 1979   →   17:18, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

I have gone to that bridge and walked across it. I have seen the dedication plaque. The purpose is to show that the bridge exists, and that it is worthy of inclusion. Self-published material can be valid if it is verifiable. Self-published material is suspect on matters of controversy and completely unsuited to anything scientific or medical. Local lore and color are in the "trust but verify" zone.

OK.... there is a Wikipedia article on the bridge itself.Pbrower2a (talk) 20:01, 4 December 2021 (UTC)