Talk:UAE Pro League

Page move request
The page UAE Arabian Gulf League should be moved to UAE Pro-League to coincide with their seasons, unsponsored name, and other leagues whose articles aren't based on their sponsorship names, such as the League of Ireland Premier Division.--Bijanii (talk) 22:48, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 6 December 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Since so many people were canvassed into !voting here, it is impossible to determine consensus based on numbers. Based on the merits of the arguments on both sides, I do not see a consensus for this move. The current name may be a sponsored name, but there is no source given for the assertion, which makes it less convincing. So this is closed as no consensus, with the tie going to the current title. A new discussion may be opened at a future date, but editors are reminded not to canvas for votes. (closed by page mover) Brad  v  15:32, 16 December 2017 (UTC)

UAE Arabian Gulf League → UAE Pro-League – The page UAE Arabian Gulf League should be moved to UAE Pro-League to coincide with their seasons, unsponsored name, and other leagues whose articles aren't based on their sponsorship names, such as the League of Ireland Premier Division. Bijanii (talk) 23:00, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose, I think its debatable if Arabian Gulf League is really a sponsored name, or even if it's open for sponsorship, I looked around in both English & Arabic sources, didn't find anything about title sponsorship for the last three seasons, yet it's still called with the same name, In addition the first announcement of the name change didn't say anything about sponsorship, instead the spokesman said it was named after Arabian Gulf (as what Arabic countries call the Persian Gulf), after about five months they came up with sponsorship announcement with a company with no public prior to the announcement.  UA3 (talk) 01:08, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Putting your obvious bias and conflict of interest aside, the source you've provided yourself lists the name as being sponsored for 70 million AED.--Bijanii (talk) 03:37, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * You're the requester of the move request, you can't vote. You shouldn't assume whether other editors are biased or have a COI without basis, I'm being objective here, the source provided is for one-year sponsorship, there are no sources that confirm sponsorship deal for recent years, if you have a reliable source for title sponsorship for the current season please mention it here. UA3 (talk) 04:08, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The fact that there is a sponsorship for the name - whether it be one year or one hundred years - means that the page should be moved to its actual, unsponsored name, which is the UAE Pro-League.--Bijanii (talk) 04:24, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * This is Wikipedia, you can't claim facts without an up-to-date verifiable source. UA3 (talk) 05:29, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The source you provided is credible from the league itself, which shows there is in fact a sponsorship that you erroneously deny.--Bijanii (talk) 08:11, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I think maybe I wasn't clear before, please let me re-write my previous comment, the source in question never mentioned the sponsorship for longer than 1 year, naturally title sponsorship should be renewed with an official announcement, there's no official announcement or any proof that the company renewed the sponsorship contract for the several previous seasons. Thanks. UA3 (talk) 09:46, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Please look at the source again where it specifically mentions that the deal is renewable, thank you.--Bijanii (talk) 09:55, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * We are going back to make assumptions again? many things are "renewable" but not necessary "renewed", We are looking for a source confirms that it was indeed renewed for the the last several seasons. Regards. UA3 (talk) 12:16, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * You expect a source every season that says the league's title sponsorship has been renewed? What else would you like - a red carpet? Per source, the league's title is sponsored and the sponsorship is renewable - that warrants a page move.--Bijanii (talk) 17:50, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, this Wikipedia, this what expected. UA3 (talk) 19:59, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Here is a source showing the renewal of the sponsorship for the league, league cup, and super cup.--Bijanii (talk) 06:57, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Not for 2015/16, 2016/17, 2017/18. UA3 (talk) 11:25, 11 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment: Here are some examples of other competitions with the proper naming conventions for their articles: La Liga, Ligue 1, EFL Cup.--Bijanii (talk) 04:44, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * This discussion is not about other articles, also all pages listed above have an updated source for title sponsorship, which we don't have in our case, in Wikipedia we should include facts which are reported elsewhere and we should not assume something as a fact without a proper source. UA3 (talk) 05:29, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
 * We have a credible source showing the sponsorship of the name which you continuously deny. The other leagues are shown as examples for how this article should follow suit based on consistency.--Bijanii (talk) 08:11, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

What do most English-language sources call it? Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:42, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Answered by reading the sources: "league will operate under the new name of The Arabian Gulf League". Walter Görlitz (talk) 01:47, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Examples of some sources referring to the UAE Pro-League name:
 * http://www.soccerstats.com/latest.asp?league=uae


 * https://www.soccerex.com/insight/articles/2017/uae-pro-league-committee-joins-forces-with-sportradar
 * https://www.fourfourtwo.com/us/uae-pro-league
 * https://www.thenational.ae/sport/balancing-act-in-the-quest-for-silver-in-uae-pro-league-1.436782
 * As discussed, Arabian Gulf League is the sponsored name. Likewise, most sources currently refer to the EFL Cup as the Carabao Cup, but it's still the sponsored name.--Bijanii (talk) 01:53, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Most reputable sport website calls it Arabian Gulf League, some of these websites are FIFA.com (the international governing body of football), Soccerway (one of the most known statistical website for Football) and Transfermarkt (German-based website owned provides footballing information around the world). UA3 (talk) 06:04, 8 December 2017‎ (UTC)
 * Transfermarkt is not a reliable source on Wiki. Fifa.com also has SSE Airtricity League as the sponsored name here, where as its Wikipedia article is its unsponsored name - League of Ireland. This article should follow suit based on consistency.--Bijanii (talk) 07:55, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * What about Soccerway? they don't use sponsered name for the Saudi Pro league for example, I keep repeating myself, all other articles have recent title sponsorship sources, yet we dont have one for the last several years. UA3 (talk) 08:03, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The source from the league itself states the league name is sponsored and that the sponsorship is renewable, which suffices. At this point, you're being tendentious by expecting a source every season that states the league name has been renewed, especially from a Middle Eastern country with such a controversial topic.--Bijanii (talk) 08:09, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The earliest announcement of the name didn't say anything about title ownership, instead the spokesman said it was named after the Arabian Gulf, as this is was before the title sponsorship deal, I checked many pages of other football leagues, all of them have recent title ownership sources. UA3 (talk) 08:14, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Here is a source showing the renewal of the sponsorship for the league, league cup, and super cup.--Bijanii (talk) 06:14, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Not for 2015/16, 2016/17, 2017/18. UA3 (talk) 11:25, 11 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Support - Due to the league's sponsorship by Arabian Gulf Development, it seems clear to me that the name "UAE Arabian Gulf League" is a sponsored name. The article should exist at the unsponsored title. – PeeJay 08:37, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The earliest announcement of the new name didn't say anything about title sponsorship, but it was announced as a name change UA3 (talk) 09:00, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * So you're telling me it's just a coincidence that, a few months after the name change, the league found a sponsor that just happened to have the same name? – PeeJay 09:59, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * This company doesn't even have a headquarter or any other publicly known services, yet they're able to afford ~$20 million USD yearly to be title sponsor for a sport competition that was re-named before signing the deal? UA3 (talk) 15:33, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
 * And now you're telling me this is the first shady deal in the history of the UAE? – PeeJay 09:47, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 09:21, 8 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Support - we do not use sponsored names, which this appears to be. GiantSnowman 09:23, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Support - It is a sponsored name: The name change reflects the new title sponsor of the competition, Arabian Gulf Development (Goal.com) and the United Arab Emirates Football Association official website: Arabian Gulf Development, "Official Title Sponsor". Pahlevun (talk) 14:05, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Support - Indeed, no competition should ever be named after a brand. --Quite A Character (talk) 18:38, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The category page 'Category:UAE Arabian Gulf League' should also be moved to 'Category:UAE Pro-League', as well as its respective sub-categories. I'm hoping there's a function that can make the task easier, thanks.--Bijanii (talk) 19:48, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Support - For the same reasons as listed above. Guilherme (talk) 10:29, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Weak Support - No sponsor on main page title unless sponsor exist indefinite. Sponsor is usually temporary and I think this competition will almost exist indefinite. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 11:19, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose THe name change predates the sponsorship by some time and the announcement is quite clear that it's a new name http://www.uae.agleague.ae/en/news/new-name.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.245.178.100 (talk) 13:12, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
 * As I said to UA3 above, you can't possibly be so naive as to think it was a coincidence that they found a sponsor with the same name as the league's new name? – PeeJay 15:01, 13 December 2017 (UTC)


 * it's the UAE. There are plenty of Arabian Gulf things here. It's equally possible that the sponsor came on as a consequence of the rename. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.204.102.234 (talk) 16:07, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Support - Per nom and Peejay, whose arguments are spot on. - LouisAragon (talk) 21:16, 12 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment I am neutral on this but it appears to have been changed when Etisalat was the sponsor .Gulf News states Etisalat Pro-League renamed as Arab Gulf League dated May 29, 2013 .Arab Gulf or Arabian Gulf is also a political term as per Persian Gulf naming dispute  Arabic Wiki has named its article as  Arabian Gulf which is the larger context here. This also states ETISALAT SPONSORS ARABIAN GULF LEAGUE AGAIN .The name appears to have been before Arabian Gulf Development became the sponsor and when Etisalat was the sponsor. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 00:22, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * That second link doesn't say Etisalat was the sponsor, only that they were a sponsor. In fact, it specifically states that Arabian Gulf Development was the league's "title partner". The name was changed when Etisalat's original sponsorship deal ran out, and then the league conveniently found a new sponsor with the same name; Etisalat then returned to the league's "stable" of sponsors a year later. – PeeJay 09:10, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment Thanks for your reply. It is rebranding or renaming and has led to a diplomatic row between Iran and UAE  not title sponsorship as per

states that Iran barred its players after it rebrand it Arabian Gulf League. Please note it not Arabian Gulf Pro League.The name is UAE Arabian Gulf League.The name is now definitely changed and will not revert to Pro League.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 12:39, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The national Arabian Gulf League: Iranian players may miss out due to name dispute:The National
 * Iran bars captain’s UAE transfer over Gulf name:Kuwait Times
 * Iran bars transfer of football captain to UAE over Gulf name":Alarabiya
 * Further Iran accuses UAE of racism in renaming Pro League to the Arabian Gulf League.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 12:39, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I don't know how you can know it won't return to the name "Pro-League". It's still operated by the Pro League Committee after all. – PeeJay 12:50, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Gulf News ,National ,Kuwait Times ,Al Arabiya above all state renamed or rebranded none of them speak about Title sponsorship even ESPN here states renaming not title sponsorship .Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:05, 14 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Further Pro League Committee chairman Mohammed Thani Murshed Al Romaithi the head of the states  revealing the news of The Arabian Gulf League, and explaining that the new name is in recognition of the Arabian Gulf being one of the country’s most important resources for life in the region. H.E. Al Romaithi highlighted to the audience that the new name expresses loyalty and pride to the Arabian Gulf, which is the window through which the UAE looks out the world, and equally through which the world views the UAE. He stressed that the Arabian Gulf has been good to the country, and that this is a way of giving back and showing appreciation for all it has provided. As per Arabian Gulf League Website This  and also Please see his statement in this UAE top-flight to be renamed Arabian Gulf League .The word title sponsorship is missing all the WP:RS I searched and the diplomatic row is over this not over title sponsership.Further the league Head statement as to why it was changed is crucial.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 14:05, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if you know how news is generated, but the reason those news agencies don't refer to a title sponsorship is probably because the league issued a press release that the agencies just copied and reworded. It's likely that the league simply didn't want it to signal a change in sponsorship before a deal was finally agreed with Arabian Gulf Development and thus didn't refer to the name change as such at the time. – PeeJay 15:20, 14 December 2017 (UTC)


 * Support - We simply don't use sponsored names. Fenix down (talk) 17:31, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Support - Sponsored names are not used as titles of football tournament articles. Hashim-afc (talk) 17:40, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

Canvassing
Note there has been an allegation of canvassing made. The IP did not provide any evidence after being told to stop multiple times but if there's no satisfactory answer to my question here I will consider invalidating this discussion. --Neil N  talk to me 17:53, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree fully agree with actually I Tagged it Not a Vote .Many users were notified on the talk page including sat least five who participated But leave it to the closer.Think it is related to the Persian Gulf naming dispute as theIP  states the Arabs call it Arabian Gulf and think the Arabic Wiki has named its article as  Arabian Gulf which is the larger context here.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 20:30, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * It's getting more complicated., who is on the opposite side of the issue, also placed talk page notifications. I will be asking them the same question. --Neil N  talk to me 20:45, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree with you but it seems nobody voted on basis of his/her messages only one voted here and even he voted support. But has been here since 2015 while other user  is new. Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 21:08, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Very strange. These two editors invited us on our talk page. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 21:22, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I only invited users who edited this page in the past or the current season page, I thought they may be interested in providing their opinion UA3 (talk) 21:29, 13 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 16 December 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved. Two hours after the previous compromised discussion is closed this is opened? No, drop the stick for six months and then try again if circumstances warrant. --Neil N  talk to me 01:53, 18 December 2017 (UTC) Neil N  <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 01:53, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

UAE Arabian Gulf League → UAE Pro-League – Without canvassing, the article should be moved to its unsponsored name - UAE Pro-League - for consistency with other unsponsored competitions such as the League of Ireland Premier Division and the EFL Cup. This source shows renewable sponsorship for the naming of the league with Arabian Gulf Development for 70 million AED, and this source shows the renewal of the partnership. Bijanii (talk) 17:41, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose - The page mover wrote: "The current name may be a sponsored name, but there is no source given for the assertion, which makes it less convincing.", so it's not only about vote canvassing, a definite source is missing for the last several seasons, many sources above mentioned by confirms the name was changed before any sponsorship deals.  UA3 (talk) 18:21, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose The league changed its name before the sponsorship, and the sources are explicit that it's a name change.94.57.155.211 (talk) 06:47, 17 December 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Unsponsored name discussion
There is a clear conflict of interest with members of Arab background - User:UA3 frequently edits Emirati articles, and the IP addresses are based in the United Arab Emirates as well, presumably brought on by UA3. Moderators voted to move the page to its unsponsored name, and even those canvassed by the opposer also agreed. Again, the article should be moved to its unsponsored name - UAE Pro-League - for consistency with other unsponsored competitions such as the League of Ireland Premier Division and the EFL Cup. This source shows renewable sponsorship for the naming of the league with Arabian Gulf Development for 70 million AED, and this source shows the renewal of the partnership. UAE League Cup, UAE Super Cup, and categories/templates should also be restored accordingly.--Bijanii (talk) 02:59, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * You know you're heading for another block, right? Read WP:ASPERSIONS. Implying your fellow editors have a conflict of interest solely because of their nationality/ethnicity is not acceptable. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 03:17, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * With all due respect, I'm merely pointing out their conflict of interest in regards to the Persian Gulf naming dispute, and by Wikipedia's standards, these articles should be moved to their unsponsored names.--Bijanii (talk) 03:37, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * This is not the first time, he accused me of the same above, and now he's accusing me of bringing IP users to speak on my behalf. this is getting ridiculous UA3 (talk) 05:51, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * They've been warned to stop the practice and I'm assuming they'll act accordingly in the future. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 05:54, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * This was discussed extensively above, I'm not sure why you're trying to revive this conflict again, consensus wasn't reached and you were asked to drop the stick by an admin UA3 (talk) 05:45, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Please stop discussing this name topic again and again. If you want to discuss this name topic, please wait at least six months. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 12:09, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Having seen this pop up at WP:FOOTY, this seems to be a fairly open and shut case. I have zero idea why the first move request was closed as "no consensus" when there clearly was a consensus, both in terms of strength of evidence and in terms of editor support for the move. I would recommend taking this to WP:MR as it was clearly closed in error IMO and the result should be overturn to "moved". Number  5  7  13:07, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Because so many people were canvassed into !voting there. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 13:39, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Even so, the evidence is pretty unambiguous. Number   5  7  14:00, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I looked at the close and felt it accurately summed up the situation. --<b style="color:navy">Neil N </b> <i style="color:blue">talk to me</i> 14:06, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * We'll have to agree to disagree then I'm afraid; it's one of the worst closes I've seen for a while (and I say that as an admin with a fair bit of experience of closing RMs). Number   5  7  14:08, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Even the evidence is pretty enough, the votes seems not fair. So I suggest we should held a move request again a few months later. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 14:14, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * You forget that Wikipedia is not a democracy. We don't decide these things based on a simple majority of votes, we get editors to present their arguments for and against the move and then the closing admin weighs up the evidence. Regardless of the canvassing, the evidence was pretty unequivocal that the article should be moved back. – PeeJay 14:30, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh! Thanks for telling me. So should we open a move review on WP:move review? Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 14:34, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I think that's what Number57 was suggesting, yes, and I agree. – PeeJay 14:47, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * If you want to move this article now, please self open a move review on WP:move review first, thanks. Hhhhhkohhhhh (talk) 00:05, 30 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Done, thank you.--Bijanii (talk) 07:50, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

Requested move 8 October 2019
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;">
 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: Moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 20:07, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

UAE Pro-League →


 * Category:UAE Pro-League → Category:UAE Pro League
 * Category:UAE Pro-League seasons → Category:UAE Pro League seasons
 * Category:UAE Pro-League managers → Category:UAE Pro League managers
 * Category:UAE Pro-League players → Category:UAE Pro League players

– The "-" is not part of the name (see here). – — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:9000:6e0e:7ffd:d4bf:46b5:df14:40e1 (talk • contribs) 04:40, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 08:41, 8 October 2019 (UTC)


 * Support per nom and source provided. GiantSnowman 08:47, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. UA3 (talk) 09:22, 14 October 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Organize
, this is to organize and fix issues regarding these articles, can you not reverting wholesale a bunch of improvements for no reason?

In this article particularly:
 * 1. Some words on the field are grammatical wrong.
 * 2. Some lines are biased, have to curtail and change them.
 * 3. A lot of content is repeated: for example, the "records by Emirates" table repeat the clubs' records above.
 * 4. Some descriptions are too lengthy.
 * 5. Some links are missed. 42.112.7.78 (talk) 13:16, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I am sorry but unless you are willingly to put a blind eye towards your conflict on the Shabab Al Ahli wiki page, then it's clear that people here have disagreed with your edits and i am just simply saving them trouble, besides your edits are familiar, are you the same weirdo from a couple of months ago back when the UAE national team page had an editing conflict? Badass Flare (talk) 13:52, 23 October 2021‎ (UTC)

just stop to talk instead of warring edit.

That is the only article that an edit is disagreed. In other articles if they disagreed, they would have revert the improvements, only you are undoing the changes. 42.112.7.78 (talk) 13:56, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * So the only wikipedia page that caught the attention of someone who has higher authority happens to result in it being protected? Wouldn't that make you stop and think that maybe the other articles could result like this if they noticed your edits in them as well? Badass Flare (talk) 14:05, 23 October 2021‎ (UTC)
 * That page has the biggest change of all these, so of course the change will be disagreed initially. As you see, many here editing the other pages, and no one have problem with the improvements, just you which is for no reason because you have a judgement. 42.112.7.78 (talk) 14:10, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * What about the big changes in Al Nasr, Al Ain, Al Wasl and Al Jazira's pages? Are you sure people like the idea of putting the honour section at the absolute bottom of the page and mixing the rivalry section with history section? People didn't agree with you back when you tried to do it in national team pages so why on earth should the opinions change for club pages? Badass Flare (talk) 14:14, 23 October 2021‎ (UTC)
 * I have no idea about what you said mixing rivalry with history. Almost every articles put Honour at the bottom. The changes in these are valid and is not undone. 42.112.7.78 (talk) 14:20, 23 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Oh okay so you're gonna put a blind eye towards your own edits? Well this discussion is over then. Badass Flare (talk) 14:24, 23 October 2021‎ (UTC)

Need supporting
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