Talk:UB40/Archive 1

Untitled
Why exactly is the accuracy of this article disputed it seems fine to me Gem 23:22 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

We have a vandal that mixes good edits with bad, apparently deliberately: it takes too much time to check all his edits, so we just delete the lot. He has been invited to discuss his behavior, but has so far not taken the opportunity. The Anome

Full, long reading of it is at User_talk:Michael/ban. - Hephaestos 23:25 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I've found some info on the band here http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll Gem 23:32 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

From my recollection of the band, the current contents of the article look accurate. -- Arwel 23:47 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Various factual errors, misremembered years, imagined titles ... the typical Michaelisms. see here. Koyaanis Qatsi 23:48 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Checked and corrected some info. Added guest members and corrected/added albums and singles JorisJ

Their most successful single release is the cover of the Elvis Presley ballad "I Can't Help Falling In Love With You" which was intended to be the main title to the 1992 Sharon Stone movie "Sliver" and was a no.1 hit across Europe and in the U.S.A.
 * I can't find a reference right now, but I recall an interview with Ali Campbell about 10 years ago (on VH1, perhaps?) where he said they recorded it for Honeymoon in Vegas, but the director didn't like the way it came out. It wound up in Sliver instead.  There's a similar story at ub40fft.com, although I don't know where it comes from.  RossPatterson 14:31, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Ali Campbell vs UB40
'Ali Campbell' redirects to the UB40 page, and I don't think this should be the case. Ali Campbell has released two solo albums (1995's 'Big Love' and 2007's 'Running Free'), as well as guested with brother Robin on Pato Banton's 1994 UK #1 'Baby Come Back'. As such he absolutely deserves an entry of his own. In fact, I find it rather hard to believe there isn't one already. Can we see if it can be resurrected? Tobycek 16:38, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

I, too, was very surprised that there were not individual pages for at least some of the members of UB40. Its on my to-do-list.....unless someone beats me to it.--Egghead06 16:43, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

UB40 and The Mail On Sunday
Just thought I should mention that on Sunday 6 May 2007, the British newspaper the Mail On Sunday gave away a free CD of UB40 in concert. There are 15 tracks on the CD featuring some of their greatest hits. These are:


 * 1) Food For Thought
 * 2) Present Arms
 * 3) One in Ten
 * 4) If It Happens Again
 * 5) Tyler
 * 6) King
 * 7) Kingston Town
 * 8) Homely Girl
 * 9) Cherry Oh Baby
 * 10) Bring Me Your Cup
 * 11) Higher Ground
 * 12) Red Red Wine
 * 13) Rat in The Kitchen
 * 14) Sing Our Own Song
 * 15) Can't Help Falling in Love

Cheers 81.157.64.122 11:04, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

U2 has been together with the same lineup longer than UB40 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)
 * According to their bio on here, U2 have been together since 1976, which is slightly less long (32 years) - however, The Four Tops had the longest-lived constant lineup to date (40+ years). 91.84.95.204 (talk) 23:17, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Campbell's leaving
This BBC article paints a rather less straightforward picture than the simple announcement of leaving that we have in the article as it stands. In particular, the band's spokesman rejects his comments about "intolerable" management. 86.143.48.55 (talk) 17:44, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Norman Lamont Hassan
Is Norman Hassan's middle name really Lamont? Norman Lamont was a Tory MP. It could just be coincidence but in case it isn't I've removed it. Aynuk N. Ayli 08:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, his middle name really is Lamont, sometimes (mis)spelled Lamount. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JorisJ (talk • contribs) 02:15, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Discography
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UB40_discography Here it is.89.243.185.217 (talk) 19:42, 7 July 2010 (UTC)JT

Unlike most bands, UB40 does not have a dedicated discography page or a distinction between Studio albums and Live albums. Will this be remedied, or stay as it currently is? LtGurnt (talk) 09:10, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

Achievements
Hello. I see you have 70 million listed as the number of albums sold, and the reference provided for that statistic does not mention the number of singles they had in the UK charts. Here is a more comprehensive retrospective of their career, which puts their number of albums worldwide at over 120 million and their number of charted singles directly at 50 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/local/birmingham/hi/people_and_places/newsid_9129000/9129405.stm). Perhaps someone with the appropriate knowledge can update the article and the references. Willyfreddy (talk) 15:41, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Maxi Priest
Whoever stated that Maxi Priest is the new lead singer is completely mistaken. Go to the band's official website: www.ub40.co.uk and check out the bulletin board. A couple of band members commonly post on the board and have stated that DUNCAN CAMPBELL, Ali and Robin's brother will be the new lead singer! People please get your facts straight before reporting erroneous material!


 * Would it not be a better idea to, instead of ripping out referenced info on Maxi Priest, to add your own referenced info showing what you believe to be true regarding the line-up of UB40? Or better still put it on here for discussion?--Egghead06 (talk) 16:12, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Sure, let's discuss it..i'll start a new discussion of it. I'll put some posts from the official UB40 message board, in which band members themselves have denounced Maxi as their lead singer...and i'll also give you some pictures from band rehearsals...which, surprise...do not include Maxi Priest :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.242.35.124 (talk) 20:53, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

FOR THE FINAL TIME...MAXI PRIEST IS NOT (underline it, put an exclamation point after it) the lead singer of UB40! I have already edited this page THREE TIMES!!!. Whoever is saying that he is the new lead singer is somehow misinformed. But I personally have read messages posted by the band members themselves....here you can read this http://www.ub40.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=88845&highlight=duncan+singer

read that page and look for Brian Travers (a UB40 member) comments on the matter.

I don't care how many references say that Maxi is the lead singer...when the BAND MEMBERS THEMSELVES HAVE DENOUNCED HIM as the lead singer! Please get your facts straight before re-editing this post!

The two new members are actually Duncan Campbell (vocals) and Tony Mullings (keyboards)

i will edit this page once again and if anyone reposts Maxi Priest as the lead singer again, i will be forced to report them as a page hijacker. - Matthew P


 * Thanks for finally providing a citation for your information instead of just ranting about it. I've added back in the cite about Maxi Priest joining the band, making it clear it was a false report, and added the more exact citation for the info about Duncan (the above link), since the main site still hasn't added him to their band member list -- Foetusized (talk) 21:02, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry didn't mean to rant..it's just that some people will read anything and take it as true....just wanted it settled. Now worries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.242.35.124 (talk) 22:18, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Egghead06, why exactly are you trying so bloody hard to obfuscate the truth about Maxi Priest not being a member of UB40? -- Foetusized (talk) 13:09, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * It really isn't a case of obfuscation. I think this could be disagreement over the word 'member'. I am not stating that he is a member of UB40. So far we have, in terms of reliable sources, that Priest will front UB40. A UB40 spokesman doubts this will be permanent, the ref from Jamaica states it is expected to form a more permanent alliance and that a joint recording will be forthcoming. This adds alot more than the original references from the Birmingham Mail and includes, for balance, both sides. By the way where are the reliable references (not blogs or fansites) which state Priest will not front UB40? --Egghead06 (talk) 15:46, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * 1) So what, exactly, is the difference between being the front/lead singer for a group and a member of a group? You seem to think that Maxi can be the front man/lead singer UB40 without being a member, and that goes quite against my experience of how those terms are used in the music business.  The collaboration/guest appearance that Maxi Priest and UB40 have recorded together does not make him a member, lead singer, nor front man of UB40, no more than David Bowie recording a song with Queen made Bosie a member of or the lead singer of Queen.


 * 2) There is no, I repeat, no information in the article you have added from the Jamaica Observer (dated weeks after the other cites) that wasn't taken from the earlier reports. In fact it says it is written "according to reports" and mentions no primary sources, such as the "source close to the band" quoted in the other articles.  Let's compare the two:


 * Birmingham Post: "The collaboration with Maxi Priest, which is expected to form a more permanent alliance, has already yielded a recording of Bob Marley's I Shot The Sheriff and is expected to form half of a double a-side single soon."


 * Jamaica Observer: "The collaboration with Maxi Priest is expected to form a more permanent alliance and has already yielded a recording of Bob Marley's I Shot The Sheriff and is expected to form half of a double A-side single soon."


 * That's almost a direct quote from the earlier article, covering the exact "alot more" information you claimed that this citation was adding. Based on this, I'm reverting the poorly-done rewrite that you made in order to add a citation to this plagiarised adding-nothing newspaper article.  It was a nice and clear paragraph, contrasting the "is he or isn't he the new lead singer?" positions, before you started muddying the waters.


 * 3) There's lots of information about the changes in membership of the band, including the fact that Maxi Priest is neither the new lead singer nor a new member, on the official message board run by the band, which is neither a blog nor a fansite. It is part of the band's official website, and the band members that post there are authenticated.  Posts on the board also state that the band is waiting to make a formal announcement about membership changes at the time of the release of their forthcoming album next month and the tour to support it.  Right now, I think there are enjoying the extra publicity that the Maxi Priest rumors are creating, so the paragraph as it now stands should be OK until that announcement is made. -- Foetusized (talk) 20:45, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Your chosen ref from expressandstar.com does little more than muddy the waters with a, will-he won't-he, stance. Even the title of the ref states Priest is to be the new UB40 front man!. The so-called UB40 spokeman says otherwise. I've included both sides for balance. If you can provide a clear reference which proves one way or the other what Priest's position is PLEASE INCLUDE IT.--Egghead06 (talk) 06:39, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The Express and Star story only "muddies the water" through presenting both sides (instead of just one) of an unclear story. This entry should do the same with a clear presentation of both sides of will-he-or-won't-he.  The long quote you added from that article isn't necessary to establish what the rest of the article is about; I'll fix that.  At least Mr. Franklyn has a name, unlike that oh-so-trustworthy anonymous "source close to the band" that made the unsubstantiated claims that Maxi Priest has joined the band.  There is no clear reference (for now) that meets the Wikirules, so we'll have to continue to present both positions in the entry -- Foetusized (talk) 11:49, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


 * At least now we are showing that Maxi Priest will be in some collaboration (front-man, singer, member?) with UB40. That will do until the new tour starts and they appear with a lead singer, either on a permanent or temporary basis. Incidently have you Googled Gerard Franklyn or seached for him on the UB40 official site? No thought not. For one so important to the band, references to him are mighty thin on the ground! In Wiki terms he would not be treated as a reliable source but hey, it's Friday....--Egghead06 (talk) 15:03, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


 * So why exactly isn't the named source as reliable as the unnamed "source close to the band" that the rest of the paragraph relies upon? Anyway, according to UB40's web site, there will be a published interview with three band members this weekend in The Mail on Sunday that may resolve all these questions - Foetusized (talk) 16:57, 25 April 2008 (UTC)


 * The listing of Maxi Priest as a "Touring Member" of the band seems to be inconsistent with his own entry which merely lists UB40 as an associated act. Surely he is just an associated artist in the same way as, say, Chrissie Hynde might be considered to be. Gwladys24 (talk) 17:37, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * As history has unfolded.......Priest sang as front man for UB40 and did a tour and was replaced by Duncan. . By some definitions that makes him a member (temporary or otherwise) and/or an associated act. He stood in for a while, toured and went. More involvement than Chrissie Hynde. I'm still no closer to understanding if he was thought of by the band as a member of the group or someone standing in after Ali Campbell left and before Duncan joined. Whichever, there was no permanence to his involvement with the group.--Egghead06 (talk) 04:56, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * '...some definitions...' doesn't sound too encyclopedic - either there's an official record of him being a band 'member' or there isn't. Otherwise it's just a separate artist temporarily standing in for a band member, who has since been replaced. Gwladys24 (talk) 23:38, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * By 'some definitions' I mean read the above and there is a difference of opinion. What is a band 'member'? Do you know of a referanceable definition of a band member? Did he/UB40 know he was only there temporarily. Had Duncan decided to join later when Priest was fronting them? I don't know. As I say, he came, he sang, he went. Above all else he was a temporary act.--Egghead06 (talk) 04:34, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It's an encyclopedia - opinion doesn't come into it. You don't need a referenced definition of the term 'band member', just a referenced source of information confirming Maxi Priest as a band member - if there isn't one, then he wasn't one. Speculation about what the band thought at the time or exactly what the situation as regards Duncan was is all completely irrelevant. Gwladys24 (talk) 18:00, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Discussion and opinion are very much part of constructing an encyclopedia hence the above. As it happens I believe (and there are references to show) he was the front-man of UB40. Others (see above) think he was a member (without providing a source). No one mentioned 'speculation' which of course would be no use on Wiki. Attributable comments from the band would. As it stands he was a temporary lead-singer. --Egghead06 (talk) 07:32, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

Ali Campbell still active?
He performed at 2010 Volksfest in Plymouth... i thaw it with my own eyees!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.112.14.101 (talk) 06:58, 1 November 2011 (UTC) Yes he is still active, but i'd say he need to lay off the booze and fags and cut down on the saturated fats

Not enough info
I don't mean this in a "come on, work harder" sort of way, but, a band as big as UB40 (as the article even says in the lead) you'd think there would be lots of information in their respective pages. Their self-titled album doesn't even have a page and them which do are generally quite small, the UB40 page itself is quite small and the template is very messy.--TangoTizerWolfstone (talk) 23:55, 14 May 2012 (UTC)

Robin
Only a comment to say that Robin used to work for British Leyland and found reggae guitar in his dinnertime, then left to go to a construction job .. This was not a good move as he was out of work a few months later. .. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.3.131 (talk) 19:21, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Ska

 * I had always heard UB40 referred to as a second wave ska band. Is there any truth to this?


 * Not really but some of the records have an up tempo alsmost ska sound to them, Reefer Madness and Burden of Shame come to mind.Ajuk 22:41, 2 June 2007 (UTC)


 * note:please remember to be mature,kind and not insulting in your answer--Anthraxrulz 06:27, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Huh, What are you getting at?Ajuk 23:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)


 * UB40 have cited Ska as one of their early musical influences, but have for the most part stuck to reggae when it comes to making their own records. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.242.35.124 (talk) 22:21, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * They became well known at the same time as 2-Tone was getting going, so they did tend to get lumped in with the second wave ska acts. (Mind you, so did Dexys Midnight Runners, and they were a soul band, so...)  Some of their singles fromt he mid-80s onward had more of a ska feel than reggae: "Sing Our Own Song", "Red Red Wine" and "Rat In Mi Kitchen" are examples.  And they did "Reckless" with Afrika Bambaata, which was a soul funky hiphop thang.  So, although you would pigeonhole them as a reggae band, ska was definitely on their radar.  Madness are considered a second wave ska act, but more of their tunes were soul, pop and rockabilly, so it's not a tight pigeonhole. Pollythewasp (talk) 13:03, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Blues Parties
Were the "blues parties" that UB40 went to really parties where they played the blues (as the links seem to suggest)? In 1990s Manchester a "blues" was a party which involved a lot of marijuana but no blues music, so maybe it had some specific meaning in 1970s Birmingham.
 * Blues parties in Balsall Heath during the 80's played reggae. They probably weren't much different 10 years earlier. Aynuk N. Ayli 15:12, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * it is also suggested by Robin and Ali Campbell in their book "Blood and Fire", that the name "Blues Party" could have derived from the sound system that was used at those parties...which was the brand called Blaupunkt (German word for Blue Party) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wxmatt82 (talk • contribs) 22:24, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * "Blues parties" are a Jamaican/Caribbean breed of party that feature "Sound Systems" (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_system_(Jamaican) ). They pre-date ska/rock steady/reggae, and probably featured American RnB, hence the name.Pollythewasp (talk) 13:09, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Who owns the name UB40?
At the moment members old and new lay claim to being UB40. It is not for us to decide who has the right to use the name. This may end up in court. I have provided a reference to show that the old members of Ali Campbell plus will be recording as UB40 and thus are members of that group. There is nothing implied that they are working with the other claimants to the title.--Egghead06 (talk) 19:56, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

2 groups recording as UB 40
As I understand it, there are currently 2 groups claiming to be UB40, one including Ali Campbell, the other including Robin and Duncan Campbell. Until the legalities of this are resolved, we need to explain both positions, without taking sides. We have been here before, e.g. Wishbone Ash, can we please avoid an edit war, with editors promoting "their" line-up, and just report the facts. Thanks - Arjayay (talk) 19:59, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Your edit does take sides. It list the current members as UB40 and the group with Ali Campbell as "performing as". In the face of legal action they are both "performing as" until a court decides. See --Egghead06 (talk) 20:03, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed, to a point, as the previous line issued recordings as UB40, without any dispute from Ali. I'm not sure how else to phrase it - any ideas? To go back to Wishbone Ash - Robin Campbell's UB40 and Ali Campbell's UB40 ? (sorry now off until 0830 UTC) - Arjayay (talk) 20:14, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
 * The Ali group has now added "reunited" to the end of their name to prevent legal action. So one UB40 and one UB40 Reunited!!--Egghead06 (talk) 20:17, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
 * "Sorted" - an ideal solution - thanks - Arjayay (talk) 08:39, 28 February 2014 (UTC)

Boy band?
The addition of Category:English boy bands is unsupported. I have removed it. Being English and boys does not make you a Boy Band.--Egghead06 (talk) 08:18, 26 December 2014 (UTC)

Contradictions
The 'personnel' section needs to be labeled better. At present we have the two lineups of the band listed in separate columns but no titles; in addition to which the three members who have left the original band are tenured to their years of departure. This is in contradiction to what is suggested in the infobox - that all nine musicians who have passed through the ranks of the band are 'current members' of the band and that there are two lineups of UB40 in active service.

One of two things needs to be done: either we label the two lineups in the personnel section with the same names applied to them in the infobox, and edit the tenures' of Astro, Ali Campbell, and Mickey Virtue to indicate they are still members of the band, OR we need to consider the three departed members as 'former members' of the band, in which case the labels 'current' and 'former' should be added to the personnel section and Astro, Ali Campbell, and Mickey Virtue should be moved to the 'former members' section of the infobox.

Any edits to try and rectify this have thus far been almost immediately shot down by other editors who then shout 'vandalism'. Can we get this rectified soon? Kind regards, 109.145.126.16 (talk) 00:07, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I believe the name issue has been settled and Ali's group can't call themselves UB40 - it would be better to list them as former members and start a new article for whatever they're calling themselves this week. --Michig (talk) 06:45, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that is so. A Google search will show many recents hits for " UB40 featuring Ali Campbell etc", so they still perform under the UB40 title.--Egghead06 (talk) 07:53, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * I don't think Ali's allowed to call his band just "UB40" and has to bill it as "Ali Campbell the legendary voice of UB40 Reunited with Astro and Mickey" or something similar (with 'UB40' in much larger text than the rest obviously). --Michig (talk) 08:05, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
 * Personally I don't have much of an opinion either way as I can see both sides of the argument. On one hand both groups are attaching themselves to the 'UB40' banner, but on the other only the original band is labeling themselves simply as 'UB40'. Judging from sources I've read on both sides there will be legal action taken by the original band at some point to try and change the status quo but this remains to be seen.


 * A few years ago I was a frequent editor to Wikipedia so I have seen this kind of thing happen on many occasions. I've also noticed that this page failed to meet Good articles criteria, and can tell you that a lack of clarity in corresponding areas of a page (such as the two sections referring to band membership) is something that detracts from this. That is my concern here; not which argument we side with but the fact that we do side with one in the near future, even if we are to move in the opposite direction if-and-when new information is available to us. Thank you both for your responses. Kind regards, 109.145.126.16 (talk) 09:32, 2 April 2015 (UTC)


 * As this discussion has petered out I've gone with the negative. As it is unappealing to some Wikipedian's to list the Astro-Ali-Mickey band as a form of 'UB40', they should be listed as former members instead. As long as one decision is applied unilaterally throughout the respective sections of the page this information applies to there is no longer a problem. Kind regards, 5.80.225.180 (talk) 22:54, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Inclusion of early members
I have recently added details of early musicians Yomi Babayemi and Jimmy Lynn to the page; and I wanted to justify them to those who may be unsure of their relevance in the grand scheme of things. My logic is twofold:

1. Firstly, all band members', regardless of importance, are generally considered to be important enough for inclusion on their respective band pages. Wikipedia guidelines stipulate that, particularly in the case of infoboxes, all members of a band should be featured and should be placed in chronological order.

2. The official status of Babayemi and Lynn is confirmed by the Campbell brothers' in their autobiography. There is no question as to the fact that they were UB40 members from the period of late 1978 to early 1979 and that they did as a matter of fact perform at UB40's first concert.

3. It would appear that the current members' of the original UB40 are adding weight to the fact that Astro and Mickey Virtue were not original members of the band (and that, by extension, Babayemi and Lynn were) in their litigation against the newly 'reformed' edition of UB40 which consists of Astro and Virtue along with Ali Campbell. As this detail seems to be of potentially crucial importance now (and will continue to be so in the history of UB40 regardless of the outcome of the legal battle), it would be wrong to omit the real facts from this page, however trivial they may seem to the casual fan.

Kind regards, 5.80.226.251 (talk) 01:08, 2 November 2015 (UTC)

Merger proposals
I have proposed merging the stub articles for each of these band members into the main UB40 article, as they are unlikely to grow further and are not notable for their work outside the group. I suggest keeping the discussion on their individual talk pages. Richard3120 (talk) 18:00, 28 April 2016 (UTC)


 * Agree with all of the above but in my opinion Duncan Campbell's page should be merged with UB40 as well. He hasn't done much of note beside taking over the role of vocalist from Ali and half of the material on his page is already dealt with within the UB40 page. Ali Campbell is the only member of UB40 who has a detailed page for himself on Wikipedia. 86.148.52.140 (talk) 14:10, 17 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I'd probably agree with you on that - I gave him a bit of leeway as the "new face" and because I hadn't looked deeply into his work prior to joining, but the others have never done any solo records, have been in the band close to 40 years, and there's still little you can say about them that couldn't be included within this article. Richard3120 (talk) 14:31, 17 May 2016 (UTC)

Madness
Does anyone know what the collaberation with Madness was? There's no mention of it in the discography. --Deke42 (talk) 21:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)


 * My guess would be the "Starvation" charity single in 1985 - nothing else springs to mind at the moment. Richard3120 (talk) 23:04, 13 September 2016 (UTC) Richard3120 (talk) 23:04, 13 September 2016 (UTC)