Talk:UC Berkeley School of Law/Archive 1

picture
Has anybody looked at the picture of Boalt Hall on the Boalt Hall Wikipedia page? I'm almost certain it's not Boalt, or if it is I was very confused for the past few years.

I don't know how to delete a picture from Wikipedia - perhaps somebody else could do it.

It's a picture of the North Addition to Boalt Hall, completed in 1996. The picture was taken from the north end of the building in the parking lot, admittedly not a very common entrance. 128.32.28.18 23:59, 31 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I added a new pic of the south side, which should be a little more recognizable. --Donutmonger 16:29, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

grading
I noticed three things about Boalt's grading system that were not congruent with my memory, but which I declined to edit since for all I know the grading system could have been tweaked since I graduated. Perhaps a current Boalt student or faculty can confirm or deny:  Are HHs limited to the top 10%, as opposed to the top 10% in 1L classes and the top 15% otherwise? Is the top score really just called the Jurisprudence Award nowadays, as opposed to American Jurisprudence or AmJur? Are Prosser Prizes universal, or by discretion of professor (and therefore usually limited to classes above a particular size)?  Xrlq 20:26, 13 December 2006 (UTC)Xrlq

 The Boalt grading system hasn't changed since 1970, apart from the addition of the (rare) grade of PC. For 2L/3L courses, HHs are received by either the top 10-15% OR the top 10% plus-or-minus two students.  Transcripts say only "Jurisprudence Award." However, actual usage varies.  Prossers are discretionary, but I don't they are limited by class size.

--Saabie 07:59, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ucb logo.png
Image:Ucb logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 07:47, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

It is now time to change the name of the school into its new one "Berkeley Law" http://www.law.berkeley.edu/ Berkeley Law Alumnus here...

Name
Hey Jiang, I don't want to get into an edit war with you, so I'm going to try to reach a compromise. As a student at Boalt, I can tell you that nobody in either the law school itself, nor the legal community, refers to it as just "The School of Law." They refer to it either as "Boalt Hall" or "The University of California, Berkeley School of Law." People familiar with Cal may call it "The School of Law" because it's already assumed that they are at Berkeley, but as an encyclopedia entry, it needs to be clear from the beginning which law school we're talking about. Every other public law school entry on Wikipedia (see Michigan, Virginia, Davis, UCLA) begins with "University of ___ School of Law," so I will change the Boalt entry to conform with that. --Donutmonger 06:32, 17 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The opening of the article should list this official name first, and common or nicknames later. The official name is the "School of Law". Boalt is the common name. Of course no one goes around calling it "School of Law" because it is either too ambiguous (where?) or too formal/long (vs. Boalt). But this is not the title of the article. We are not using common names at the opening. We are using the official name as it is displayed by the university. This goes for other divisions, such as the UC Berkeley College of Engineering (notice the difference between the name of the article and the bolded title in the lead section). --Jiang 07:29, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I see why you want to just call it "The School of Law" for the purposes of consistency with the other Berkeley articles, but to be realistic, most people don't read all of them in sequence. Usually, most people search directly for Boalt Hall (it's new student recruiting season, and prospective students are doing their research). Besides, this "The School of ___" format hasn't actually been kept consistent across all articles on UC Berkeley schools (See Haas, The School of Education, The School of Information, and The School of Journalism). I understand why you want to maintain consistency across Berkeley articles, but I personally think it is more important for the Boalt article to maintain consistency with the other top ten law school entries (again, see Virginia and Michigan). To that end, I'm going to move the entire article to a more appropriate title. Thanks again for your input. --Donutmonger 08:06, 17 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Why did you move the article? see Naming conventions (common names). the common name is Boalt Hall. The law schools at Va and Michigan are officially called those names. The law school at Berkeley is not. It's not about consistency. It's about using what is formal and proper.--Jiang

With all due respect, your insistence on "consistency" rather than what is "formal and proper" is what underlied your argument for referring to Boalt as only "The School of Law." Following your reasoning, the article for the Berkeley School of Information should be found under "iSchool," but we both know what that's not right. I point to the specific sentence within WP:NAME that says, "A redirect should be created for articles that may reasonably be found under two or more names (such as different spellings or former names)." Boalt Hall may be commonly referred to as "Boalt," but it is also referred to by the name I moved it to (see Former Prof. Lemly's bio, Vault's profile, this review of Boalt, this article written by a Boalt student. You are correct that the titles of the Va and Michigan law school articles are their "official" names, but they have common names too, namely "Michigan Law," and "UVA Law." Those aren't the article titles, however. UCLA School of Law is referred to as "UCLA Law," but that is not the title of the article. New York University School of Law is known as "NYU Law," but that's not the title of that article. UC Davis School of Law is actually referred to as "King Hall," but again, that is not the title. I would argue that in moving the Boalt article, I am being both consistent and formal and proper. --Donutmonger 16:03, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Again, the relevant policy here is "use common names" for the article name and "use official/proper names" for the bolded part of the article text. These are two separate issues. Here are the stats Boalt Hall: 494,000, Boalt Hall School of Law: 206,000, Boalt Hall -school of law: 156,000, Berkeley School of Law: 110,000, University of California, Berkeley School of Law: 59,200, Berkeley Law School: 29,000, UC Berkeley School of Law: 25,100. Something with the Boalt name gets much more hits than something without. References to "Boalt Hall" without a reference to a "school of law" gets even more hits than anything with Berkeley in the name. Contrast: King Hall School of Law: 589 vs UC Davis School of Law: 31,500.

Boalt is not simply a nickname. It is someting that is being officially used by the university. In any case, the naming conventions says not to use something less common over something more common unless there is ambiguity. If Boalt Hall is too ambiguous, then at least Boalt Hall School of Law is not (is there another law school named "Boalt"?).--Jiang 09:03, 20 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Boalt is part of the official name, although that is now being changed. The new official name will be, I believe, University of California, Berkeley School of Law, and all the other names should redirect there. --Lquilter 16:08, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

The new official guidelines for the proper naming of Boalt have been released: Berkeley Law Identity. According to the guidelines, these are the proper names for the school: Any other variation is not permitted. As such, I will be changing the lead bolded title of the school from "School of Law" to "UC Berkeley School of Law". I'll change it in a few days so that anyone who differs has a chance to weigh in. --Donutmonger (talk) 20:27, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
 * University of California, Berkeley, School of Law
 * UC Berkeley School of Law
 * Berkeley Law
 * Boalt Hall

It is now time to change the name of the school into its new one "Berkeley Law" http://www.law.berkeley.edu/ Berkeley Law Alumnus here... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.203.176.227 (talk) 15:18, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I am reverting the article name to "University of California, Berkeley, School of Law as this is consistent with both the official identity policy and Wikipedia naming policy standards. 22:06, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Move page

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved.  Ron h jones (Talk) 22:52, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Berkeley Law → University of California, Berkeley School of Law — Berkeley Law does not follow Wikipedia naming conventions. University of California, Berkeley School of Law follows the naming conventions. See Category:ABA-accredited law schools in California for examples.—OCNative (talk) 01:01, 18 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Support. Amerique dialectics 04:52, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Support. Unless Berkeley, California doesn't follow either common law or civil law :) Madcoverboy (talk) 04:55, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * That may be true. Berkeley is its own law. Amerique dialectics  18:10, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

"Comfy Sofa" Quotation
The "comfortable sofa" quotation is nearly 20 years old. While it was undoubtedly accurate for a long time, the last five years have seen a massive investment in internal and external renovation at Berkeley Law. The library and all classrooms have been renovated, new seminar rooms and a new moot courtroom have been added, and a new student center has been created. When you factor in the new wing being constructed, approximately $60 has been allocated for these improvements. As a result, I think this quotation should be removed as it no longer appears accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.96.141.195 (talk) 00:08, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I was just about to make the same point--particularly since the entire first floor has been renovated, and the new wing is nearing completion. Since it has been over a year since you raised the issue, I'm going ahead and removing the quotation.--206.18.112.129 (talk) 16:42, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

UC Law School Comparisons
There's currently a number of statistical comparisons with the other law schools in the University of California system. Quite frankly, I'm not sure this is of much interest to anyone, except Californians at those other law schools. Maybe it should be removed?--206.18.112.129 (talk) 16:52, 3 May 2011 (UTC)

Opening heading
I do not think it's accurate to say that Berkeley has consistently ranked as the top public law school. The University of Michigan has been regarded as superior for a very long time, the current US News ranking being the only exception. Given that the Michigan page makes exactly the same claim, one of the two must be false.

As Berkeley's claim can point to an external source (USNEWS) and Michigan's cannot, I think the latter should probably be the one to go. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 38.96.141.195 (talk) 00:10, 28 January 2010 (UTC)


 * BUT, Berkeley cannot point to an external source that shows it is consistently ranked as the top public law school because the top three public law schools (Boalt, UMich, UVA) switch places in the rankings from year to year. It's different practically every year, rotating between those three — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.251.32.68 (talk) 04:16, 27 February 2012 (UTC)
 * case in point, take this year's (2012) US News rankings: UVA and Boalt tied in 7th place, Michigan behind in 10th place. Next year you're likely to see Michigan flip flop w Boalt or UVA, followed by another combination of the three the next year. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.173.47.176 (talk) 05:15, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Peacock language in lead
The lead is excessively peacocky, IPs - including UC Berkeley IPs -  keep replacing language such as "consistently regarded as one of the most elite and prestigious public legal institutions in the world" as well as removing refs that might back this up. Hairhorn (talk) 16:15, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

References are now restored. The lead is consistent with other "elite" law school descriptions and is not promotional as much as it simply descriptive in nature.
 * Peacock language is still peacock language, refs or no. And use of peacock language elsewhere does not justify it here. Hairhorn (talk) 19:14, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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