Talk:USS Alligator (1862)

Speed
There is inconsistency in this article concerning the increase in speed due to the shift from oars to a screw propeller. Is there disagreement between sources?

First Sub
The opening paragraph says the Alligator and Turtle are both first, but this can't be true. It needs to be clarified more explicitly. Rlevse 19:01, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Location ?
I looked at the Submarine Photo Index at the bottom of the Alligator article. Can't quite tell if they've actually found her yet (off Cape Hatteras)...Anybody know?? 71.68.55.97 (talk) 03:43, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Has a search been made for her?Drutt (talk) 14:40, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

"USS" Alligator?
The title of the article is "USS Alligator," but the opening text states, "It was never commissioned so it cannot be referred to as "USS Alligator." If this is true, shouldn't the name of the article be changed? --ExarPalantas (talk) 00:42, 3 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I thought the same thing. Something needs to be changed. -Phoenixrod (talk) 17:27, 27 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I have been bold and moved it as suggested above. Jschnur (talk) 03:34, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

You moved too fast. She was indeed identified as "USS" Alligator by the Navy Department. See. (Official Records (Navy), series 2, volume 1, page 32.) PKKloeppel (talk) 00:30, 6 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Does anyone have clarity over the name of the sub? The Office of Naval Research and the Naval War Records Office, as well as National Geographic and NPR all refer to it as the USS Alligator.
 * Official records of the Union and Confederate Navies in the War of the Rebellion
 * NOAA and U.S. Navy Uncover Secrets of Lost Civil War Submarine USS Alligator
 * U.S. to Look for First Navy Sub—Sunk in Civil War
 * The USS Alligator's Mysterious Designer
 * It's clear that the ship was never commissioned, however, this did fall before Executive Order 549, and the Navy describes the term "United States Ship" being used as early as the 1790's.  NEMESIS63  |  talk  |  00:33, 1 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Those are good sources. I agree, it should be moved back to USS Alligator. Mojoworker (talk) 18:54, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Displacemet inconsistent with boat size
The article states Displacement: 275 tons surface, 350 tons submerged. A boat of the size of the Alligator should have a desplacement of approximately 35 tons submerged. The difference between the surfice and submerged is 75 tons this is what you would expect of a larger boat say about 500 tons. If the numbers are given are off by a factor of 10 and were 27.5 tons surfaced and 35 tons submerged both the displacement and diference world be consistent with a boat of the Alligators size. 75.171.69.166 (talk) 05:41, 26 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Good catch. For the given dimensions, a crude calculation of the enclosing box (47 ft × 4 ft 8 in × 5 ft 6 in) gives a volume of 34,162 liters, displacing 34 tonnes of water. The submerged sub should weigh somewhat less than that, because its volume doesn't perfectly fill the entire box. It certainly can't weigh more, or it would sink like a stone! -- Colin Douglas Howell (talk) 06:36, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @Gatoclass I've removed the displacement tonnage figures on the basis of the previous reasoning. They are not present in the DANFS entry, and they clearly must be in error if the given dimensions are anywhere close to correct. Pinging you because you originally added those figures. -- Colin Douglas Howell (talk) 06:48, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

The two sections are in direct contrast!!
The first portion states that the replacement of the oars increased the speed to 7 knots while the second states 4. The first presents this elaborate spying history for the ship but the second paragraph basically states she had one mission. The whole thing needs to be scrapped and redone get rid of one section.66.87.116.90 (talk) 13:30, 20 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Thanks for drawing my attention to the problem. I have removed the original research. The 4 knots / 7 knots issue is not really a contradiction because it says with the propeller the speed was increased up to seven knots - in other words it was capable of 7 knots in ideal conditions but 4 knots was its usual speed. Gatoclass (talk) 15:01, 20 January 2013 (UTC)