Talk:USS Saratoga (CV-3)

Note-- discussion on class
Additional discussion on issues common to Saratoga and her sister Lexington can be found at the talk page for the class, Talk:Lexington class aircraft carrier. Kablammo 22:41, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Links needed in opening paragraph
The opening paragraph of the article mentions USS Enterprise and USS Ranger. Shouldn't those also be links to the Wikipedia entries on those ships? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.12.94.112 (talk) 10:24, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. Qualifier "fleet" added to "aircraft carriers", as USS Long Island (CVE-1) was in commission prior to Pearl Harbor.  Kablammo (talk) 14:19, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Saratoga the second US aircraft carrier?
Excuse me for not knowing how to do this. I believe I found an error in this article.

The article's first line states Saratoga was the second US aircraft carrier. Unless I'm mistaken, Saratoga was the third (hence the CV-3 designation) after Langley and Lexington. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.227.176.181 (talk) 22:10, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but you are mistaken. Saratoga was in each case laid down, launched and commissioned before Lexington, check out the relevant articles' ship info boxes. -  Nick Thorne  talk  00:05, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Nitpick about Washington Naval Treaty
Sentence in the first paragraph reads "Originally designed as a battlecruiser, she was converted into one of the Navy's first aircraft carriers during construction to comply with the Washington Naval Treaty of 1922."

It's a nit, but the sentence can be read to imply that Saratoga _became_ an aircraft carrier in order to comply with the treaty. She didn't have to become a carrier. The treaty just meant she couldn't be completed as a battlecruiser. She could have been scrapped.

How about "Originally designed as a battlecruiser, she couldn't be completed as one because of the Washington Naval Treaty of 1922. Instead, she was completed as an aircraft carrier."? Mark1000 (talk) 02:30, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Except that the Navy didn't want to scrap her or Lex. A specific provision in the Treaty was added to allow countries to convert capital ships under construction into carriers.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 09:11, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Broken Links
I fixed broken wiki links that I could and removed those that were not repairable. These were all undone, why do we want all these broken links?

Also my change "On the morning of 1 November, Saratoga's aircraft neutralized Japanese airfields at the northern end of the island and on Buka Island." is much clearer than the original "On the morning of 1 November, Saratoga's aircraft neutralized Japanese airfields on Buka Island and at the northern end of the island." The original leaves readers think the other airstrip is on northern Buka not Bougainville Island where the airstrip actually was.

Why undo all this?--Plmerry (talk) 08:06, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
 * See WP:REDLINK; they weren't broken, merely with unwritten articles. I agree with your change to the phrasing, though.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 09:07, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The Saratoga's red links were not bad, 2 I think. I was reading a ships article which had been copied straight from Defense Historical site and every name was in red.  That is actually where my frustration came from.  Is it reasonable to think that every person mention even LT(jg)s on a tug is going to have a page?  Where does one draw the line. --Plmerry (talk) 11:30, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Persons need to meet the general notability guidelines to be worth an article/redlink. And there's a MilHist guideline that details the criteria for military personnel. So the line's been specified. I think that every one of Saratoga's commanders made flag rank; nobody's written the articles yet.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 12:29, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Commanders
What do we think of a Commanders table as I did on USS Lamson (DD-367)? --Plmerry (talk) 11:30, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
 * No, lists of commanders are disallowed by the Ships MOS. If they're notable, they need to be integrated into the text. If not notable, then don't bother unless important for some incident or another. I don't know Lamson's history, but I doubt that any of her commanders were notable unless they later made flag rank.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 12:26, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

Question About Badge Image
The image currently showing in the infobox as Sara's badge appears to be the insignia for Navy Utility Unit 2, which was aboard the ship, as opposed to the ship itself. See https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/insignia-utility-squadron-2-uss-saratoga-united-states-navy for evidence. Wouldn't the badge feature the ship's motto, like the images shown e.g. http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/026010.gif ? Certainly the other badges of carriers, Intrepid for example, feature the entire emblem and motto. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Finktron (talk • contribs) 17:55, 21 September 2016 (UTC) Finktron (talk) 17:56, 21 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Good catch, removed.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 03:02, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

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main image
requesting consensus on the lead image: Currently we have (file 1) which is in color, but dark, grainy, and is hard to see the overall view of the subject. I propose the following image as a replacement - it is B & W but gives the reader clearer and a greater overall view of the ship. thoughts - FOX 52 (talk) 20:16, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I think it's always preferable to lead with a color image if a semi-decent one is available since most readers reportedly don't ever get past the lede. And the current one may be low-res, but it's neither dark nor grainy to my eyes. Plus it actually shows her with aircraft on deck. Always important for a carrier, IMO. There's plenty of space for the one that you chose elsewhere in the article.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:57, 3 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I concur with Sturmvogel. Period images aren't expected to ne perfect, and this one doesn't need to be. But I'd definitely add the B/W photo somewhere in the article if it isn't already there, and ditto for the color image. - BilCat (talk) 21:02, 3 July 2020 (UTC)