Talk:USS United States (1797)

First Ship of War of this Country
My name is Edward C. Zimmerman, Jr. and since 1978 I have been gathering historical and construction data on the First Ship of War of this Country, the frigate class USS UNITED STATES. I am Founder & President of the USS UNITED STATES Foundation, a non-profit Chartered Corporation.

Noting the commissioning date of 11 July in your notes is not true. The sources of which I am familiar with are misleading and incomplete. It was for this of several reasons that I involved myself with the frigate.

In a document commissioning John Barry as No. One in the United States Navy, Barry received this commission on 22 February 1797. In this order by George Washington, Barry was to take command of the frigate called UNITED STATES at Philadelphia. Since Barry received this commission as the first officer, and since the orders singled out the frigate UNITED STATES under the same order, then the USS UNITED STATES became the first commissioned war ship of the United States of America and the United States Navy on 22 February 1797, prior to her launching. Several news articles also called the USS UNITED STATES as the first ship of war of this country to affirm her place as the First Ship of the United States (Federal) Navy.

The weight of the frigate was in excess of 1576 tons. This weight was the basic design weight. However she mounted a poop deck and roundhouse on the stern that drew 23 feet of water while the bow drew 20 feet of water. She also had 6 pairs of "diagonals" within her construction, a feature which is now being used to lengthen the life expectancy of the reconstructed USS CONSTITUTION (1995).

UNITED STATES was also faster than CONSTITUTION or PRESIDENT and faster then almost any ship in the United States Navy up until the mid 1840's. CONSTITUTION reportedly had an old entry of 13 1/2 knots as a speed. However, repeated entries in the journal of LT. John Muloney, First Officer of the USS UNITED STATES, indicated that the frigate was constantly slackening sail for CONSTITUTION to catch up. And in a incident involving a chase for a French privateer, the UNITED STATES out ran the CONSTITUTION and had the quarry long before CONSTITUTION arrived on the scene. Rumours of she having poor sailing qualities certainly did not show in her speed.

It is my belief that the report of wood on her upper deck to be used for continuing carpentry work below during her maiden voyage made her a little crank, once the wood was below she was more than capable in speed and maneuverability than any other ship in the Navy of the United States. Later misconceptions gave a false image of her true attributes.

Edward C. Zimmerman, Jr. USSUNITEDSTATES@Yahoo.com

Captured vs. acquired
I've rolled back the edits that imply that United States was not captured by the Confederacy. While not captured in a battle at sea, she was not simply "acquired" either. She fell into Confederate hands with the fall of the Navy Yard where she was docked. Acquired implies that she was somehow purchased, which is not the case. Feel free to try again to clarify what you're trying to say. Jinian 12:11, 30 August 2005 (UTC)


 * From my observations, the frigate was sitting in ordinary and had been decommissioned as a Federal ship at Norfolk before the outbreak of the Americal Civil War. Any ships in that condition are not captured since they were not active in the United States Navy. When the yard was taken by the Confederacy all vessels not under the commission of the United States Navy became aquired in that the possession changes but cannot be captured since they were not active. You may be right as to ships being sold as being aquired. However possession can not take place as a capture unless the ship was commissioned. Therefore she falls under possession as aquired and not captured.

I have the honor to be at your service. Edward C. Zimmerman, Jr.  USSUNITEDSTATES@Yahoo.com USS UNITED STATES Foundation First Ship of the United States Navy

date?
Naval Act of 1794 says that it was completed in 1796. This article says 1797. Which is correct? Bubba73 (talk), 17:04, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Frigate USS UNITED STATES was commissioned 22Feb1797, launched 10May1797 and got to sea 13 July 1798. 72.193.3.74 01:35, 27 April 2007 (UTC)Edward C. Zimmerman, Jr.; Founder & President, USS UNITED STATES Foundation; USSUNITEDSTATES@Yahoo.com

New infobox
I changed the infobox to the latest design of ship infoboxes. This type of infobox can also have more information on it. It looks better anyway. I also took off the new infobox tag on the talkpage--(Wikipedian1234 (talk) 16:12, 3 May 2008 (UTC))

Another date?
At the top of the article, the ship was broken up in 1865. In the infobox, it was 1866. Explaination? -- 15lsoucy salve.opus.nomen 18:10, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

Demolition of the frigate USS UNITED STATES was started in December of 1865 and was completed in January of 1866. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.193.6.211 (talk) 13:29, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Persons Assigned to the US United States in 1850
I just found my 2nd great grandfather in the 1850 U.S. Census. He was on the "U.S. Ship United States" at Norfolk. I had not seen a census record before showing sailors on their ships. There seems to be at least 24 sailors on the ship at that time. The sailors were born in many states and countries. My ancestor, Joseph Yates, is still in Portsmouth/Norfolk in the 1860 census but is living in the town and is not on the ship. Now to determine more about him between 1860 and his death before 1864 96.248.17.116 (talk) 12:22, 13 August 2010 (UTC) Tom
 * The timeline fits perfectly for your research in this case. United States was what they called a receiving ship in 1850. So your 2nd great grandfather was apparently in some sort of transient period and temporarily housed there. Brad (talk) 03:11, 14 August 2010 (UTC)