Talk:Ude garami

Untitled
Please see my discussion on my first technique page attempt, Kata Guruma.

I made one statement in the Ude Garami article that Judo only has arm locks for joint manipulation, that is no knee bars, etc... Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not entirely sure about this, but I've never heard of a Judo joint technique attacking anything other than the arm.

--Pereza 18:49, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Merging with armlock article
I see that judo techniques are getting their own articles, even in cases where the move is found in many other grappling arts. While I think it's a good project overall, in the case of ude garami, I feel this move is too widely used in other arts to warrant it having a stand-alone article for judo's name for it. These armlocks already confuse many people due to the wide variety of terms

In BJJ, the two version of ude garami are usually called:


 * americana
 * kimura

Catch wrestlers use these names:


 * top wrist lock
 * double wrist lock

In my experience, American submission wrestlers without significant BJJ backgrounds call them:


 * chicken wing
 * hammerlock
 * keylock

And I have heard these names used too:


 * bent armlock
 * paintbrush
 * v-lock
 * american armbar
 * figure-four armlock
 * reverse kimura

All of these names refer to just one (or both) of two armlocks. Different arts have minor differences in how they are applied, but the fundmentals of the grip on the arm and the pressure on the shoulder are the same. I don't feel they should be given different articles, which would just perpetuate the confusion between the names. A single article could explain how many arts share these armlocks, give all the different names, and explain any minor differences in how they are applied.

But if ude garami does keeps its own page that only gives a judo perspective on the move, it should be mentioned how there is some debate over its use, since judo rules forbid shoulder locks, which is the most common way for these armlocks to be applied. I've heard it argued that it can also be an elbow lock, and while it can put stress on the elbow, from personal experience (doing and receiving) these are shoulder locks unless something special happens, like catching an odd angle as someone escapes.

--Aesopian 13:25, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * A solution is to redirect to the common article, armlock, but keep the categorization in the redirect page. This will keep the name 'ude garami' under the judo techniques category, and redirect it to the larger article. Now merged. Shawnc (talk) 19:08, 9 April 2008 (UTC)