Talk:Ufa train disaster

Facts are needed
This article sais "The explosion was so powerful it blew out windows in Asha, eight miles (13 km) away.[3] The explosion is said to have been equal to 10 kilotons of TNT,"

Where is the reference to point that fact. the references in the article do not support this argument

Thx

Fttxguru (talk) 18:04, 24 January 2011 (UTC)


 * Ten kilotons. Hiroshima. Was not just felt, but blew out windows 13km away. This sounds quite a bit over the top, and should be removed, since the Times article does not use these figures. I have removed this material pending some sources. Herostratus (talk) 19:43, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

I think I found the source for my question

Here it is

http://www.energy-daily.com/reports/Analysis_Gazprom_explosion_in_Moscow_999.html

Fttxguru (talk) 19:58, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Hmmmm, well. Some questions about that.
 * I assume that Energy Daily is probably a more or less reliable source, generally, within their area of expertise. They are probably not a necessarily a good source for historical facts, though. The source you gave is a 2009 article which mentions (in passing - its not the main thrust of the article) something that happened twenty years ago. In the Soviet Union, which was not the easiest place to get hard facts from.
 * They say "estimated to be equivalent to 10 kilotons of TNT, two-thirds as powerful as the Hiroshima explosion". Estimated by whom?

I dunno. I wonder if the 10kt figure was something someone somewhere said as a guestimate, and it got passed around, and Energy Daily picked it up. I'd like to see an actual report or something that cites an actual report before I put it back in the article. But I'm a bit of a stickler, so it's arguable that your citation is OK. (There's nothing about the 13km window breaking, though). Herostratus (talk) 04:18, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Hmmm, the Soviet source deadlinks, which leaves us with the American sources, which 1) gives casualty totals a lot lower than 1,200 and 2) indicates tat the casualties were basically all on the trains - and not even all the passengers died, which doesn't seem to jibe with an atomic-bomb level explosion. We need to get some proper Russian sources in this article. Herostratus (talk) 04:29, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

This source: (MediaKorSet) says that the Soviet military estimated the blast at 20 megatons (мегатонн), which is obviously a misprint (the Tsar Bomba itself was only 50 megatons). But then it goes on to say "about half the size of Hiroshima" so even if they meant 20 kilotons that's wrong, as Hiroshima was about 13 kilotons. So I dunno. I can't really take that source as reliable.

Then you have this source, which says that according to "unofficial" data, the explosion was "about the same as in Hiroshima - about 12 kilotons".

So hmmmm. It was a big bang, there's no doubt about that. How big I don't feel confident in saying at this point. The Russian Wikipedia article here has a plethora of sources (all in Russian of course) so maybe this can be teased out - or perhaps not. Herostratus (talk) 04:59, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

There's a working source in English here. I added some material from it, but you may want to rewrite what I wrote because it's a bit clumsy. Nanobear (talk) 22:18, 25 January 2011 (UTC)


 * No, fine. I added links from the Russian Wikipedia article, and while I blew through them rather quickly I noted that the BBC and one other source (forget which one) talked about hundreds of tons of TNT equivalent. Someday maybe I'll go through the sources and expand the article. Herostratus (talk) 04:51, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Coordinate error
The following coordinate fixes are needed for

the accident was of liquefied petroleum gas not liquefied natural gas

—62.190.10.139 (talk) 09:16, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * What is "liquefied petroleum gas"? Petroleum is a liquid, so ""liquefied petroleum" is redundant. If you convert petroleum to gas and they re-liquify it, you just have petroleum again I suppose rather than "liquefied petroleum gas". The ref just says "liquified gas". IIRC There was another ref somewhere that said "liquefied petroleum gas" but I assumed that that was just translation glitch? Herostratus (talk) 16:18, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Liquid Petroleum gas, aka LP is commonly known as Natural Gas to the lay public in the US. It IS common today to liquify the gas through refrigeration for easier transportation. Remove the pressure, it reverts to a gaseous state for consumer and industrial use.Wzrd1 (talk) 00:35, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Geodata-check request declined — Not a coordinates issue, coordinates appear to be correct. — TransporterMan  ( TALK ) 18:00, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

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