Talk:Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: Amitchell125 (talk · contribs) 10:06, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Happy to review this article, I'll get onto it asap.
 * Many thanks, very happy to wait till the time is best for you. ~ BOD ~ TALK 10:36, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Review

 * Lead/infobox


 * Link classical (Classical music); punk (Punk rock); pop (Pop music); rock (Rock music); rhythm and blues; soundtrack (note spelling); juxtaposition; formal evening dress (White tie); independent music; albums; pubs
 * In the infobox, link the Barbican, London (Barbican Centre); unlink London (common term).

More comments to follow. Amitchell125 (talk) 11:56, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
 *  initial suggestions ✅ as recommended. ~ BOD ~ TALK 12:36, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
 * 1.1 Formation
 * Link ukulele; oxymoron; punk; keys (Key (music)); album
 *  link suggestions as recommended.
 * not all done.
 *  Oxymoron now ✅ sorry I missed it.


 * 1.2 International tours and success
 * Unlink Glastonbury Festival; Robbie Williams (both duplicate links)
 *  link suggestions ✅ as recommended.
 * VE day needs to be spelt in full
 *  suggestions ✅ as recommended.
 * Unlink Wuthering Heights
 *  I changed the link to go to Kate Bush's song done if acceptable
 * Link Philharmonie Luxembourg (note spelling); DVD; EP (expanded to Extended play)
 *  correction & link ✅ as recommended.
 * 1.3 Online performances during the pandemic lockdowns
 * Link YouTube
 *  link suggestion ✅ as recommended.
 * 2 Line-up and Organisation
 * eight (an octet (music)) or seven (a septet) needs copy-editing
 *  After attempting to copy-edit I decided the phrase was unnecessary so I removed it. done if acceptable
 * 2.2 Past members
 * Link kidney transplant (Kidney transplantation); stroke; polka dots
 *  suggestions ✅ as recommended.
 * 2.4 Independence
 * Unlink British Council (duplicated link)
 *  suggestion ✅ as recommended.
 * Link record label; Sony
 *  I also linked CBS and added the missing reference at the end of the sentence done if acceptable
 * Not sure what was not done...but changed the Sony wiki link to go Sony Music instead.


 * 3 Repertoire and artistic style
 * Unlink David Bowie; Chicago Tribune; "Wuthering Heights"; Ennio Morricone (duplicated links)
 *  link suggestions ✅ as recommended.
 * In the caption, link Proms Concert (The Proms); Royal Albert Hall; Beethoven
 * <small style="color:green"> suggestions ✅ as recommended.
 * David Bowie should be linked to the first place where it appears in the text.
 * <small style="color:green"> suggestion ✅ as recommended, he pops up at the bottom of the International tours and success section.
 * "Danse macabre" should in italics and not quote marks.
 * <small style="color:green"> suggestion ✅ as recommended.
 * Link a cappella; vaudevillian (Vaudeville); BBC
 * <small style="color:green"> link suggestions ✅ as recommended.
 * 4 Critical reception and legacy
 * Unlink The Independent; New Statesman; Sydney Morning Herald (dup links)
 * <small style="color:green"> suggestions ✅ as recommended.
 * Amend Now (newspaper) to 'Now'.
 * <small style="color:green"> link correction ✅ as recommended.
 * All news publications in this section and elsewhere should be in italics. Check throughout the article and amend accordingly.
 * <small style="color:green"> Mostly done, but will need to check again as I have a fussy head today I do not drink honest
 * not yet completed
 * <small style="color:green">In progress still, trying to spot news publications not in italics, but not seeing any atm ...
 * No worries, if I spot any more I'll do them myself. AM


 * ABRSM needs to be written out in full.
 * <small style="color:green"> suggestions ✅ as recommended.
 * Link recorder (Recorder (musical instrument)); psychologists; endorphin; serotonin
 * <small style="color:green"> link suggestions as recommended.
 * not yet done
 * <small style="color:green">Ooops thought I had linked this serotonin now ✅


 * 5 Original works
 * Link silent movies (Silent film); Birmingham Town Hall; gypsy music (Gypsy style); music hall (Music hall songs)
 * <small style="color:green"> link suggestions as recommended.
 * not all done
 * <small style="color:green">Again thought I done this, my self check failed sorry. Birmingham Town Hall now ✅


 * Unlink Great War (common term, now usually called World War I)
 * <small style="color:green"> changed it to WW1
 * Not done
 * <small style="color:green"> Removed Wiki link to WW1✅

That's the links done. I'll cross out text if a comment has been addressed, and add a cross (❌) if it hasn't imo. Please feel free to query/comment as needed. Other comments to follow. Amitchell125 (talk) 14:26, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
 * 6 Legal dispute
 * Link copyright
 * <small style="color:green"> link suggestions ✅ as recommended.
 * 10 External links
 * Delete 'The Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain discography at MusicBrainz' (not required for GA, but you already have a section that covers this page, and the page takes information from Wikipedia).
 * <small style="color:green"> recommendation ✅.
 * I am happy that the article is already improved by these wiki link fixes that I ought have spotted before. My brain often works slow, would you rather i not use the green font. ~ BOD ~ <small style="font-family:Papyrus;color:green;">TALK 20:51, 1 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Question: I am unsure about whether it is OK to have an External Link to UOGB's official YouTube page? They have created a useful & large library of songs there, that is getting updated weekly atm. Do you think that an external link there would  be OK?  ~ BOD ~ <small style="font-family:Papyrus;color:green;">TALK 17:44, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Happily, the UOGB's official website contains the link, so in the External links section I would simply amend Official website to something like 'Official website - which includes a link to the orchestra's official YouTube page'. Amitchell125 (talk) 22:03, 3 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Oh that is a sensible approach, hopefully keeping those who would auto delete a YouTube link happy. Thanks :) ~ BOD ~ <small style="font-family:Papyrus;color:green;">TALK 22:43, 3 January 2022 (UTC)

Excessive detail
Reading through the text, it lacks the conciseness required for an encyclopaedia article, a key criteria for GA status. Most sections contain too many trivia-like details which should be omitted to make the article more concise. I've made particular points about the lead section, and more general ones after that.


 * The lead (which should be a summary of the topic's most important points) is unnecessarily detailed (see WP:DETAIL).
 * from classical music to punk rock, pop music, rock music, rhythm and blues, film and television soundtracks, plus a wide variety of other popular music styles should be deleted.
 * <small style="color:green"> trimmed, the eclectic range of music genres performed by the UOGB is a major feature of the act, both in the UOGB intention and they are famous for it.
 * I would amend and sit behind music stands in a parody of a classical ensemble. All members of the Ukulele Orchestra take turns to take up the role of lead vocals to 'sit behind music stands in a parody of a classical ensemble, and take turns to take up the role of lead vocals'.
 * <small style="color:green"> done as suggested.
 * Along with Lux and Hinchcliffe, David Suich and Richie Williams are original members of the UOGB; Hester Goodman, Will Grove-White, Jonty Bankes, Peter Brooke Turner joined the orchestra through the early 1990s, Leisa Rea joined in 2003 and Ben Rouse joined in 2014. is excessively detailed for the lead, and should be deleted.
 * Ditto for In 2021 Laurie Currie, a regular deputy, became a full member of the ukulele orchestra.
 * <small style="color:green"> trimmed back, Lux's death was a major event in the orchestra's history.
 * The list of genres, members and past members in the infobox should be removed, as the infobox is a concise summary of the main details
 * <small style="color:green"> Past members trimmed back but it is normal to list a music act's music genres, usually specifically, the existing entry there is already a shorten list
 * Understood. AM


 * Over the years the orchestra - Over the years it
 * in venues ranging from pubs and community halls to national classical concert halls to jazz clubs to folk and rock festivals, to private performances in front of royalty – delete this detailed list
 * <small style="color:green"> the wide range of venues is an interesting aspect of the orchestra's history, but gradually trimming back, not sure how far atm.
 * What you've done looks fine. AM


 * The Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain has been called - It has been called
 * <small style="color:green"> I feel the full name is more appropriate here.
 * Understood. AM


 * The first paragraph could be condensed to 'The Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain was formed in London in 1985 by the musicologist George Hinchliffe and his friend Kitty Lux, when they formed a new musical project, the Ukulele Orchestra. The name was a deliberate oxymoron. Hinchcliffe told The Independent that the original intention was not to be a comedy act, but to "create a liberating musical forum where any style of music could be played, from funk to rock-and-roll to classical". The ukulele was selected for its musical versatility rather than its novelty value.
 * <small style="color:green"> Trimmed back, but leaving some detail.


 * The humorous side of the UOGB came by accident during their first live session, when by accident they played in two keys at the same time and the orchestra was "messing around, with the sheet music falling everywhere.", the orchestra had a regular monthly session in the back room at the Empress of Russia pub in Islington and Within three years the orchestra had had produced its first album an album, and played at a WOMAD festival. are the only parts I would keep from second paragraph.
 * <small style="color:green"> Again partly trimmed back, but leaving some detail, espicially regards the bands intention to be separate from music industry etc. This is another reason why the UOGB was unique


 * There’s no need for detailing all the changes in personnel, all the TV/radio programmes the orchestra have appeared on, or all the places that it has travelled to
 * <small style="color:green"> The TV/radio programmes has been deleted
 * Remove any self-evident information (e.g. unable to tour)
 * <small style="color:green"> Reworded
 * <small style="color:green">More triming done

2.3 Substitutes / 2.4 Independence / 3 Repertoire and artistic style

 * 2.3 is unneeded
 * <small style="color:green"> Removed
 * The quotes here and elsewhere could be paraphrased, e.g. Hinchcliffe explained to the Yorkshire Post the idea of the UOGB was to have bit of fun "where we’re not having the agents and the managers and the record companies dictating terms." could be paraphrased to 'The orchestra’s original intention was to perform without “agents and the managers and the record companies dictating terms."'
 * <small style="color:green"> I prefer Hinchcliffe's voice here, it has been more than original intention, as the UOGB have apart from a couple of records always been independent
 * Understood, but please be aware of MOS:QUOTE, which says "While quotations are an indispensable part of Wikipedia, try not to overuse them. Using too many quotes is incompatible with an encyclopedic writing style and may be a copyright infringement." Amitchell125 (talk) 14:45, 11 January 2022 (UTC)


 * <small style="color:green">As far as i got. It maybe Thursday when i can do more
 * The detailed lists of songs and genres should be omitted. The long quotes could be paraphrased to describe the orchestra’s style, without citing so may examples.
 * ❌ Not yet done. AM
 * <small style="color:green">Reduced detail and paraphrased most of the quotes, however it is the mix of genres and songs that is one the most unique identifying and most notable artistic features of UOGB and I feel the variety of which ought to be suitably illustrated with adequate available verified examples. ~ BOD ~ <small style="font-family:Papyrus;color:green;">TALK 21:53, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

4 Critical reception and legacy
<small style="color:green">I do think the orchestra has had a big part in the rise of both the popularity of the instrument, their style of playing the instrument and rise in Ukulele orchestras all point to a Legacy ...few artists can claim that, but maybe (I am speaking here with ignorance) that is a wrong type of legacy?
 * The text includes little legacy information, and the title could be shorted to Reception to reflect this.
 * Again, I don’t see any problem with paraphrasing the quotes and praise in this section.
 * <small style="color:green">I have made an attempt to trim and paraphrase a good number of the quotes in this section, maybe I need to do more, will revisit.
 * It might work if the legacy aspects here were moved into a new section, everything from The Independent pointed out onwards would fit into this. Thoughts? Amitchell125 (talk) 14:31, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes I happy with that, should it be called something else? ~ BOD ~ <small style="font-family:Papyrus;color:green;">TALK 14:38, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
 * OK, how about simply 'Reception' and 'Legacy'? Amitchell125 (talk) 14:51, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks nice and simple, I am leaving the Repertoire and artistic style section to later in the week when i might feel brighter:) ~ BOD ~ <small style="font-family:Papyrus;color:green;">TALK 15:09, 11 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Another section that could be trimmed back to a third of its size, with excessive details removed
 * <small style="color:green">This section has been trimed


 * The discography external link gives the same details, so I’m unclear why both this section and the external link are required.
 * Even though the is duplication in the external, is it not always the practice to have discographies in music artist articles


 * The note provides more details than imo should be included in this article
 * <small style="color:green">Sadly removed as recommended.

All these comments need to be addressed before others (e.g. about overciting, verifying the text, etc.) are made. Please let me know if if feel the job is too big to continue with, and we can stop there, but I definitely think it's worth getting to GA if possible. Amitchell125 (talk) 14:17, 3 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your advice so far, I will happy to implement most of your recommendations to definitely improve the article. I do however disagree with many of others. I will make a first round of changes over the next few days (I need to stop now) and see how it goes, but to be honest maybe the change is too great. Even if the article fails to reach GA status, I will definitely implement the majority of the recommendations you have made. ~ BOD ~ <small style="font-family:Papyrus;color:green;">TALK 19:39, 3 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your reply, I'll wait for you to let me know when you are done. Amitchell125 (talk) 19:45, 3 January 2022 (UTC)


 * FYI Little update, I have been struggling with a non Wikipedia project which is time sensitive. I am beginning to make progress but it is taking more time than i realised, plus i have had extra ideas. (Its an art project that will exhibited in a posh city gallery, which is a feat way way above my artistic ability). I hope to get back to implementing your recommendations before the end of the weekend. ~ BOD ~ <small style="font-family:Papyrus;color:green;">TALK 13:38, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * That's OK, I'm really busy too so let me know when you're ready for me to take another look and I will. Amitchell125 (talk) 14:12, 6 January 2022 (UTC)
 * You seem to be keeping up admirably, so I'll push on. I'm crossing out comments that are sorted, and will be adding a red cross (❌) if work still needs to be done on a comment. Thanks for everything you've done so far. Amitchell125 (talk) 14:04, 11 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Yep I have been happily doing a variety of fairly random edits as I spot things, apologies for it being a bit unmethodical. ~ BOD ~ <small style="font-family:Papyrus;color:green;">TALK 20:29, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Lead section (Spelling and grammar,	redundant words, and	copy editing issues follow from here onwards)

 * but have spent - 'but has spent'; Also, but has spent should be the beginning of a new sentence (the current one links two unconnected ideas)
 * exclusively is redundant
 * Consider amending From the beginning the UOGB has received to something like 'The UOGB has consistently received'
 * comma after various sizes; also after a complete genre twist, also after music stands
 * Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain (the orchestra) – you’ve introduced the abbreviation, and it (or 'the orchestra') should be used here
 * All the singers’ names need to be given in full the first time they are mentioned in the lead. They are referred to by surname only after this.
 * I would omit Lead vocals varies with every song, with each member taking up the role, when their vocals are suited as being excessively detailed for a lead section.
 * Amend In 2015 Kitty Lux's retired from touring with orchestra due to chronic ill health (she died in 2017). to something like ‘Lux died in 2017, two years after retiring from the orchestra because of ill health.'
 * the UOGB has released – 'it has released' improves the prose imo

1.1 Formation

 * The orchestra was formed - 'The Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain (UOGB) was formed' (as it's the beginning of the main text of the article)
 * musical harmony – musical is redundant (and harmony can be linked)
 * his friend Kitty Lux a ukulele for her birthday, after the post-punk singer - 'his friend the post-punk singer Kitty Lux a ukulele for her birthday, after'
 * an "outsider instrument" with a "blank slate" that – should be paraphrased imo (see Manual_of_Style)
 * discount." - 'discount".'
 * including is redundant
 * The pair formed new project – 'They formed a new project'?
 * "idea was for the orchestra to actually be the antidote to pomposity, egomania, cults of personality, rip-offs, music-business-standard-operational nonsense and prima donnas," the - idea “was for the orchestra to actually be the antidote to pomposity, egomania, cults of personality, rip-offs, music-business-standard-operational nonsense and prima donnas". The'
 * George Hinchliffe (a multi instrumentalist and musicologist) – 'the multi-instrumentalist and musicologist George Hinchliffe'
 * live on both – both is redundant
 * and the ukulele – 'The ukulele'
 * when "messing around" they played in two keys at the same time – why was this humorous?
 * No comma in Houston Chronicle, that
 * The 2nd paragraph has a lot of different bits of information, it might help if Their first gig was the start of a new paragraph.
 * , it was a sell out sounds odd placed here
 * Within three years – from what point, their first performance?
 * After just one more performance the Orchestra was on national radio. - I’m unclear as to the connection here, were they invited to be on the radio after two performances?

1.2 International tours and success

 * 'orchestra', not Orchestra
 * classic – says who?
 * The sentence beginning In 2005 doesn’t seem to belong to this subsection. Also, it is excessively long and needs to be split
 * The image is not thumb-sized (see MOS:IMGSYN) for why I made this comment)
 * collaborations have included – 'it has collaborated with'
 * Ukulele Orchestra of Great Britain – why use the full name here and throughout the rest of the article when UOGB or orchestra has already been introduced?
 * Hester Goodman, Will Grove-White, Jonty Bankes, Peter Brooke Turner all joined the orchestra during the early 1990s. belongs to the previous section. Ditto Leisa Rea joined in 2003; Ben Rouse joined the UOGB in 2014.
 * in Hyde Park – which one? (not all readers live in the UK)
 * and in 2013 they should form the start of a new sentence.
 * Looking again at the sentence beginning They have performed at diverse venues, the text here it seems excessively over-detailed for an encyclopaedia article. Artists and groups perform all over the place, the venues don’t need to be listed.
 * Avoid in history (MOS:RELTIME)
 * The performance was broadcast live on BBC Radio 3 and received critical acclaim. - this is excessive detail that can be deleted
 * originals – 'original’s' (or better still, 'the epic composition of the original work')
 * For most of its existence the orchestra has been on actively touring the world from – 'The orchestra has toured'?
 * In 2015 Kitty Lux retired from touring with the orchestra due to chronic ill health and died in 2017.is duplicated information and should be deleted
 * both in the UK and internationally - 'around the world'? (for most Wikipedia readers, the UK is a foreign country)
 * the orchestra’s international fame – this is the first time you have mentioned that they are famous – but who says they are?

2 Line-up and Organisation

 * Amend title to 'Line-up' (see comment below)
 * All the text in the paragraph that begins this section is redundant imo, apart from the idea that the players use a range of ukuleles (something that should be mentioned nearer the beginning of the article). Similarly, the image and caption is not necessary in this article.
 * inclduding – 'including'

2.1 Current members

 * Retitle to 'Members (as of 2022)'

2.2 Past members

 * Lux, band member and co-founder with George Hinchliffe, died on 16 July 2017, aged 59, after suffering from various chronic health issues. is already stated in the text
 * Move link for polka dot to where it first appears
 * Lux recovered from a kidney transplant only days before the Proms concert. She retired from public performances after suffering a stroke in 2015.- excessive detail.

Remaining sections, other issues

 * Sections not checked for spelling and grammar, redundant words, and copy editing issues - 2.3 Substitutes; 2.4 Independence; 3 Repertoire and artistic style; 4 Critical reception and legacy; 5 Original works; 6 Legal dispute
 * Multiple citations in most sections (see WP:TOOMANYREFS for help here)
 * Formatting in the reference section (minor points), and checking the information in verified by the citations.

Stopping now, the task now well beyond GAN
I'm failing the article now, even though I'm in the middle of listing issues that need to be addressed. As you can see, the article needs an great deal of work for it to meet the criteria of being well-written, and it will take too much time for me to finish all the comments.

I would suggest if you want to re-nominate the article you first request that it is copy edited by someone from the Guild of Copy Editors. ]]. You would need to address the issues I have already listed. Amitchell125 (talk) 11:11, 18 January 2022 (UTC)


 * Many thanks for your help. I will implement your recommendations, one or two I had done before reading your long list of helpful advice (I am aware of my English shortcomings etc, so I am appreciative). In a way I mostly wanted the article to get beyond its start class rating and your advice will certainly help. What matters most is the article is improved ~ BOD ~ <small style="font-family:Papyrus;color:green;">TALK 11:30, 18 January 2022 (UTC)