Talk:Ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction/Archive 1

Improved Wording
I have edited the wording of the "Risk of Injury" section to make it more concise. Before, I feel it overused the passive voice and was overly verbose, but it should be better now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.142.95.18 (talk) 21:23, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Successful?
I'm assuming successful, in terms of sports surgery, means that the player was reasonably effective. If that's the case Darren Dreifort doesn't belong on the list. I'm taking him off and may remove others if I notice them, but please let me know if I'm way off base. --djrobgordon 23:21, 2 March 2006 (UTC)


 * That's not really the case. Usually the team reports on success after the surgery is performed.  In other words, "successful" means it was successful from the surgeon's point of view; the surgeon(s) went in, and did what they needed to do.  It doesn't have to do with whether or not the player can come back and play again, since the players might suffer setbacks in rehab that are their fault, or their manager's/coach's fault, but not the surgeon's.  Also, I noticed in a recent edit summary for this article that somebody said Jeff Zimmerman retired.  I just looked him up on Google News and found a Texas Rangers mailbag that addresses that question.  He's actually just taking the 2006 season off and hoping that his arm heals completely during this season.  --Idont Havaname (Talk) 23:51, 2 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I would agree with Idont Havaname, the point is that these players has a surgery to prevent an injury that could have ended their careers. Returning from surgery to the point of being able to perform at the MLB level is success. I noticed someone trimmed out Ryan Dempster so I restored him. The level of MLB success is not the point, the point is that this surgery literally enabled these players to be able to continue to play. --Abisai 00:13, 3 June 2006

Addition
Added Chris Spurling, a pitcher with the Tigers. I know he had it done, I believe the year was 2004.

-icuwoot- 11:57 EST- March 6, 2004

Occasionally cadaver tendons are used in Tommy John surgery. Diotallevi (talk) 01:20, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Need for List???
There already exists an entire category for players who have had this surgery Category:People_who_have_had_Tommy_John_surgery. What, if any, is the point then of itemizing these names in a list that will only continue to expand exponentially with time? --Abisai 00:22, 3 June 2006
 * I agree; several people who may have been high school baseball players have been listing themselves. Since they would need their own articles in order to be in the category, doing away with the list helps curb the potential for self-promotion. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 17:13, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Seeing that the category has been deleted, I think that we should at least add some more examples to the article. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 02:25, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I would agree that it seems a bit silly to have this list here. At best this warrants a link to another page listing all players who have had the surgery.Whiteley.rod 06:14, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Chad Pennington
Chad has not had Tommy John surgery. He had 2 rotator cuff surgeries.

'Dead Arm?'
I think that the reference to the 'dead arm' here may be a little misleading, or at least need further clarification. My understanding is that the 'dead arm' in baseball pitching terms relates to the shoulder injury probably associated with a labral tear and an undersurface tear of the postero-superior rotator cuff. (The most complete review is probably the three-part series which begins with: Burkhart, S.S., C.D. Morgan, and W. Ben Kibler, The disabled throwing shoulder: Spectrum of pathology Part I: Pathoanatomy and biomechanics. Arthroscopy - Journal of Arthroscopic and Related Surgery, 2003. 19(4): p. 404-420.) If no-one complains about this in the next couple of weeks, I might remove this reference (to the dead arm in association with Ulnar collateral ligament tears)Whiteley.rod 06:14, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

List
I changed the list's title to remove the reference to "well known". as there are several players on the list who are not really well known. -- Amazins490 (talk) 05:41, 3 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Along these lines, would it be appropriate to change the list's title to MLB/NFL players instead of baseball/football players. Obviously a number of college/high school athletes have had the surgery and unless you want topen the list up to them it should probably be more specific. 131.104.235.126 (talk) 03:16, 20 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree with this. In fact it appears we have anonymous users who insist on adding high school players to the list already.Rklear (talk) 06:32, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Clarification on list of baseball players
Is this a list of professional athletes, or are collegiate athletes also added? Minor leagues, too? Or anyone who's had the surgery? I'd appreciate it if this could somehow be clarified in that section. Thanks. Logical Fuzz (talk) 02:29, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
 * People should only be included on this list if they are notable enough to merit their own Wikipedia articles (note that "has a wikipedia article" is unfortunately not equivalent with "merits his own article"; see WP:BASE/N for guidelines). Given the thousands of people who have had this surgery we have to be rigorous about our inclusion criteria.  I am editing the list title accordingly.  Baileypalblue (talk) 03:26, 28 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Matsuzaka is scheduled to have his next week LReyome254 (talk) 15:20, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Purpose
The article never clearly states the purpose of getting the Tommy John surgery. I inferred that it has to do with allowing the elbow to take more strain but I'm not sure...Samineru (talk) 20:12, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

presumably there are serious reservations about doing this on uninjured person
Notice the remark in the Misconceptions section "asking them to perform the procedure on their un-injured sons".

Increasing rates
2012 was the record for most TJS in the pros, and 2014 is on pace to break that. Not sure where to integrate this, though. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:54, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

Why is this surgery performed?
The main page fails to explain why this surgery is performed in the first place. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.100.94.113 (talk) 20:06, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your input. That is something that should be improved. – Muboshgu (talk) 20:22, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 6 October 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Moved. (non-admin closure).  Anarchyte  ( work  &#124;  talk )   11:37, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

Tommy John surgery → Ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction – This is the correct and international name for the surgery. The other is a US euphemism. UCLR gets 119 pubmed hits well the sports one gets 1 Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 01:49, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. Only one country in the world has even heard of Tommy John. Le Deluge (talk) 07:10, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
 * support though it should be noted per its 60/40 between each term (first 10 results of PubMed)--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 09:40, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I support this move, despite not really understanding what the nominator is trying to say. The proposed title is more neutral, and doesn't require knowledge of baseball.  ONR  (talk) 10:17, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Support per nomination. As long as Tommy John surgery remains in the form of a redirect, the medically-proper header would certainly be more encyclopedic in the manner of Lou Gehrig disease serving as a redirect to Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis. &mdash;Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 20:31, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Support. For the record, TJ surgery is almost exclusively a baseball term for the procedure needed to relieve "pitcher's elbow" (it has been mentioned several times during the current World Series playoffs). Some four dozen countries contribute players/pitchers to major league baseball, so it is not just an American term. --Zefr (talk) 01:27, 7 October 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Adolescents
In the past couple of years there has been a larger increase in the amount of adolescense having Tommy John Surgery. This increase is because children are starting to play baseball all year round instead of playing different sports for different seasons. Some children/ teens are also playing on multiple team and these two factors make kid really vulnerable to arm injuries, especially Tommy John Surgery, because they are throwing way more than the arm is meant to do. Some major league pitchers never return from this surgery, some return to find out they aren't capable of doing what they were once capable of and some return and may even have more velocity on their fastball than they had prior to the surgery. These results also may have an impact on some peoples view of the surgery, many believe that after the surgery you will be better than before you had the surgery and this may also have an effect on the increase of number of surgeries being preformed even in adolescence. This surgery has many risk factors also that many don't know about. The changes I plan on making to this article is I am going do add information on the surgery in adolescence and add to the risk factors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darrendi (talk • contribs) 20:53, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Fine if you do but please familiarize yourself first with sourcing requirements at WP:MEDRS. --Zefr (talk) 16:30, 11 October 2016 (UTC)