Talk:Ultimate (sport)/Archive 1

Good job on all the rule edits, people. :) This article is taking shape.

Also, has anyone recently played at a hat tournament that made the teams up by actually using names physically drawn from a hat? I am aware that that was the origin of the name, but I'm also pretty sure none of the hat tournaments I've been to used such a method. Jarsyl 05:25, 2004 Aug 24 (UTC)

''This is true for the hat tournaments that I've played in, in australia, portugual, spain and the uk. There is the use of several hats with a catagory for various skill levels and gender. sometimes cerial packets are used instead of hats. Aug 10, 2004''

Perhaps a note that time-outs are called only by the team in possession (right?).

Also, since "savage" is mentioned, I thought it only natural that its complement, "hell" (= when a team scores to tie the game, both scores reset to 0), be mentioned. But then you have to decide how much Ultimate jargon you want to include here. Perhaps there should be an Ultimate Terms page?

Ultimate terms...
Might not be a bad article...just need to make sure we're not just copying ultilingo.

I really think that we should trim down the terms to only those that wre necessary and universal, not just slang. Leppy 22:23, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed these:


 * Bookends: A player who makes a defensive play and then scores a point on the resulting change of posession.
 * Catching Garbage: When the thrower makes a particularly poor throw, but the catch is made anyway.
 * Double Happiness: A defending player causes a turnover in the end zone he/she is defending, and in the resulting offensive series, that player scores.
 * Going ho: The same as a layout. It is short for going horizontal. Some believe it to be  a play on words for ho or for the phrase 'gung ho'.
 * Hot: An adjective used to describe good play. (e.g. hot snatch is a good catch)
 * Ogre: A talented and beast-like (in appearance or action) player.
 * Rundquist: A very poor Pull that either doesn't go far or lands out of bounds.

These I think might need to be removed, but I left them in:


 * The Stupidest: A term used for someone attempting "The Greatest" when they could have landed in-bounds and the resulting pass is incomplete.  Also a term used for someone attempting "The Greatest" but the resulting pass is intercepted resulting in a 'Callahan'.
 * Swill: A throw that can only be completed with an amazing effort by the intended receiver. Often used to describe hospital throws or the throw lacks sufficient spin, causing the disc to fly without stability through the air.  Also commonly used to describe an upside-down throw that curves back in a helix-ing flight path.
 * Turf: To throw the disc so that it hits the ground shortly after being released, usually a result of poor execution by the thrower.

Leppy 22:28, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Merger
I merged the Ultimate Terms into the section of the this main article (sorry, Wikibofh), but definitely feel free to add items you see fit. For instance, I was playing a few weeks ago, and someone had to explain "give and go" to me. --Christopherlin 21:52, 17 Mar 2005 (UTC)

no worries...
That's fine...still working on learning the conventions and it makes sense either way.

Wikibofh 16:47, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

"Dickie"?
Is this an actual term that people use? I ask because I have never heard it used, it was an anonymous user (on his/her first contribution) who added it, and it sounds like the kind of thing someone would add as a joke, so I just want to fact-check. -- ericl234   talk   contribs  08:48, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Never heard of it. Looks like a personal attack.  I reverted it out. Wikibofh 13:20, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Clarification
I thought "hot" referred to a defensive player who is covering somebody that is part of a play, or that team is trying to work through, etc. Like, I'd yell at my teammate that they are hot, to let them know they should tighten up their mark/coverage for the rest of the point.
 * I've never heard that before, but it sounds like a good idea. :)  Wikibofh(talk) 14:59, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Slang
As the Callahan is listed in the 10th edition rules, I don't understand its inclusion as a slang term. It's as much a regular (non-slang) term as goal, throw, player, etc. R 07:28, 2 November 2005 (UTC)


 * I take that back -- the list is/was of ordinary terms, but someone had erroenously inserted the "slang" identifier in that section's intro. I've fixed it.R 07:38, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

League links...
I'm not sure it's appropriate to be putting location specific leagues into "external links". I'd argue for either a separate section or a link to a standard web location that has these. I think both UPA and Ultimatehandbook have something like this.

Frisbee or frisbee?
Good article. I've always seen the name written with a capital F, though, as Frisbee is a proper noun (brand name). What is the reason then that this article is here and Ultimate Frisbee is a redirect? Nickptar 15:36, 6 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Well, Frisbee is a brand name, and trademarked as such, and to the best of my knowledge Wham-o hasn't lost that protection...that being said the standard for Wiki is to not capitalize the second word of a title for something like this, and frisbee is being considered in the generic, non-TM, case. Capital F is probably more correct, but only a niggling difference, so I don't let it worry me.  That and I hate playing with Wham-o disks.  :)  Wikibofh 16:21, 6 May 2005 (UTC)


 * If the article is going to include "Frisbee", it should indeed be capitalized (it's their trade name, even if very genericized). That said, for quite some time the "official" (for example, the term used at ) name has been plainly "ultimate", and that or "ultimate (sport)" is probably a better page name, with "Ultimate Frisbee" and "Ultimate frisbee" being redirects.  -- Kaszeta 19:10, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

Amherst connection...
There have been several edits that deal with Ultimate starting in Amherst. I've been removing these as unsourced and contrary to the consensus of NJ. We should discuss this before we add them back and try to find sources. The best I've heard so far is that they made t-shirts that claimed it. I'm also not really happy with the "first and largest children's league" because it's unsourced, but I don't have information that contradicts it, so what the hay. :)  Wikibofh 22:16, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

about the childrens leauge, my relatives started it it it is 250 kids strong. about the origin of Ultimate, in vol. 25 no. 1 spring 2005 Ultimate News (UPA run) states that (Quoting) "There, Jared Kass, a 21-year-old Amherst College student working as a creative writing teaching fellow and a dormitory, along with other student-teachers, exposed (Joel) Silver to a still-evolving game played with a plastic disc.  by that time, Frisbees, sometimes known as Pluto Platters, had become fairly common..." in your sources, it cites that he played at northfield mt hernon in MA, where my article says he was taught by Jared Kass. Jeremybub 22:20, 18 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Holy crap...I asked someone to cite a source for their facts and they did. *gasp* *clutch chest*  :)  Good job.  Let me look at the sources and try to figure out how that works in or you can.  I think him exposing him is a little different than the start of Ultimate, but I definitely think that Jared and Amherst deserve to be mentioned.  Good job, and thanks!   Wikibofh 23:47, 18 May 2005 (UTC)


 * That sounds like a pretty big kids league all right. I would even believe it's the largest.  I'm also not happy with the largest league claims, but don't know of any reliable sources for numbers, so I don't worry too much about it.  Here are sources on Ultimate starting in NJ.
 * 
 * 


 * Wikibofh 22:22, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

I added the term "first known" children's league and cited the year 1999. If anyone knows of an earlier year they will be free to enter it there. Jeremybub

It's taken over fourty years to divulge this, but the first Ultimate Frisbee game was played at The Johns Hopkins University in 1963. I have an actual student newspaper with an article describing the game and its basic rules. The game was played in small field in front of the dorms as a reaction to dangerous lacrosse pickup games. The "no contact" rule was the most important concept of the game. Many of the players played Frisbee catch before coming up with the game itself. Icarusflyer 01:07, 15 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Can you scan that in for us? Thanks.  Wikibofh 21:15, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Scanned article is below. The author did not describe two key rules that were created the day of the first Ultimate game ever played, no contact allowed and the opposing team picks up the frisbee where it lands on a dropped catch. We make no claim to having originated the name. I am not related to Joel Silver. I have a complete copy of the actual "News Letter" newspaper that contains this article. Icarusflyer 20:41, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

The original rules that were established were very close to the current official rules and did not evolve from Frisbee Football as in the Maplewood, NJ history of the sport. Apparently there was no cross-polination of the original rules from Baltimore to New Jersey through a sibling or other connection. It would seem that the Hopkins rules and the Maplewood rules evolved independently, though five years apart. Icarusflyer 20:52, 21 October 2005 (UTC)



Discs Used
Can anyone show where they are UPA approved for competition (ie, not including the Captain's exception)? I couldn't find it in some quick searches. Wikibofh 20:23, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Daredevil discs are not approved at this time. [mlicata, UPA disc chair]


 * FWIW, Daredevil, Wham-o and Discraft are all "approved". It's just that Discraft is the only Championship series approved.  At least that's what the UPA site says.


 * Whoa -- somebody just put it that "previously, only Discrafts were used" -- that is true starting around 1990 -- but prior to that, only Wham-O's were used. I'll try to get the actual date and, when I do, change this part (unless somebody can beat me to it). Sholom 05:06, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

UK Ultimate link...
As uaual, I don't have strong feelings on the subject. It is in the list of leagues (and other stuff). My initial thought is unless it's a "governing body" it shouldn't be here. But, sure enough they say they are. My second thought was if you create an official set of rules. UK uses the WFDF rules. UPA uses teh UPA rules. What say ye' Ultimate masses? Wikibofh 16:16, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

Some changes
I cleaned up references to football, making clear we're talking about North American football, and also that the first college game totally mirrored the first college football game (same colleges, same place, same date).

It would seem good to put more about SOTG, particularly the current discussion and frequent controversy about the role of spirit, what it really means, the desire for some players to have referees, and resistance by many players who feel referees would ruin the game.

Not an easy task to briefly and fairly treat this topic, but it is crucial, IMHO, to understanding the sport.

- Scott Crabtree (dont' have a Wiki id)


 * Changes look good. I made the football link a link to American football.  Remember, we're going for encyclopedic, so no reason to make SOTG discussions short.  :)  Improve it how you see fit.  Wikibofh 13:55, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

List of Pick-up Game Websites
I don't think having a list of every site for pickup is a good idea in the article. I'd argue for it in the list of leagues, but hey, that got deleted, so we need something else. Ideas? Wikibofh 19:54, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Largest League Claims
The DiscNW Spring Middle and High School leagues have been billing themselves as the largest youth leagues in the country for a number of years. I'm currently in the process of contacting the commissioner for the exact numbers of participants from last year. WAvegetarian 06:55, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I was responded to by Mike Mullen and William Bartram the Youth Ultimate Director and Executive Director, respectively. If anyone has concerns about the accuracy of this edit they may contact the DiscNW Board of Directors directly. You can find contact info here. --WAvegetarian 23:48, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Ten seconds

 * Upon receiving the disc, a player has ten seconds to pass it.

I've been playing some indoor ultimate in Germany, and we tend to count to 8, not 10 (and they're not "real" seconds, it's usually counted faster). I'm not sure if it's a local variation or if it's popular elsewhere too. Taw 22:29, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

When playing indoors in the UK, we stall to 8 as well (I'm pretty sure this is the "standard" indoor stall count, for Europe at least). I've always been taught, however, that stalling should always be done in "real seconds". Ends Of Invention 10:59, 7 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Do you finish at 8 or start at 2? I ask because when we play mini or hot-box we'll actually start at 5 and finish at 10, because we're so used to stall at 10.  :)  Wikibofh 13:47, 7 December 2005 (UTC)


 * You finish at 8. I also start at 5 (or 6) for box/3v3/2v2/whatever small game you choose, but it's a bit too confusing to start stalling at 2 or 3.  Anyway, that's how we do it in Houston. --Keflavich 16:29, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

We start at 1 and count to 8. Taw 17:56, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Layout image...

 * If people prefer it, I'm willing to crop and CC-SA this image.  We should also figure out what other images we want.  New Year's Fest is coming in February and I can get a bunch of shots there and probably cover most of the requests.  Wikibofh 18:57, 6 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Not bad, but the horizontal shots are usually a bit more spectacular and demonstrative. I think we need some good sky pictures too. --Keflavich 04:57, 12 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Agree. I'll try to shoot both in late January/early February.  If you feel any pictures in that gallery suffice, let me know and I'll crop and upload.  Wikibofh(talk) 14:42, 14 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I like 3947, but since it shows a lot of contact I think it would be better if it was captioned as 'Contact sometimes happens, but it is left up to players to determine whether a foul should be called' or something along those lines. There was another one that looked good, 3774, but the car was in focus instead of the players.  In 3926, is that guy wearing a Mamabird jersey?  Looks like I know some of those guys. --Keflavich 21:04, 14 December 2005 (UTC)


 * These were all from New Year's Fest, so if you know people on the left coast, you may know some of them. So, were those comments a "crop and upload and we'll use them" or just general comments?  Let me know (here is fine) and I'll work on the crop and upload.  Wikibofh(talk) 21:21, 14 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I'd say post 3947, but look to future photo shoots for good sky pictures. I'll try to get some myself, but... well... my team doesn't sky very often, and I don't know when I'll next be a spectator. --Keflavich 01:04, 16 December 2005 (UTC)




 * I changed it to a pic I thought was a little better, and was from this past year's club nationals, taken by Scobel (added with permission)Leppy 01:18, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Regional Association/Team links?
I'm all for national Ultimate association links (such as the UPA and UKUA) in the external links section, but I don't think we need to have links such as the 'Northwest Ultimate Association (DiscNW)' and 'UWO Moostangs Ultimate' ones currently in there. After all, we can't add links to every Ultimate team website on the planet. Thoughts? Ends Of Invention 10:51, 14 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree. The original "list" in a separate article was deleted as a result of AfD/VfD.  Feel free to pare it down.  Wikibofh(talk) 14:41, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Major Tournaments
If I want to add a link to, say, the World Ultimate Club Championships (which is obviously a 'major tournament'), but can only find a link to the website for the upcoming tournament or tournaments that have already happened, should I still link it? Tournaments such as BritOpen and Paganello have a generic URL (e.g. paganello.com) that will always show details of the newest tournament, but for the WUCC I can only find wucc2006.org, which will obviously become out of date in the future. Is it a bad idea to link using URLs such as this that will become obselete within a year? If I can't find a better link, should I still add the tournament to this section but with no link? Ends Of Invention 01:52, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I'd add either the specific link (what are they thinking registering a new domain for every year?) or link to the organizing body (WFDF?). Wikibofh(talk) 15:00, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Good idea, I'll link the organising body. Another thing to consider: How big does a tournament have to be to be considered "major"?  We should set some sort of guidelines to stop every tournament ever being added.  Maybe something like world/national championships, and tournaments with over X number of teams? Ends Of Invention 18:57, 16 December 2005 (UTC)


 * Added the WUC, WUCC, EUC and WJUC, with links to the organisers' websites and links to the upcoming 2006 tournament websites (or if they don't exist, the most recent tournament website). Not sure whether to add the World Games - they are a much more mainstream event and so the fact they feature Ultimate makes them pretty "major", but on the other hand they aren't solely an "ultimate tournament", and adding them would be kind of like adding the Olympics to the list of Major Soccer Tournaments. Ends Of Invention 12:41, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

Merging Beach Ultimate
I think we should merge any extra info in the Beach_Ultimate article into this one. The majority of the beach ultimate article is just info repeated from this one, the only differences are the pitch size and the fact that it's on a beach. Indoor ultimate is arguably more common than beach ultimate and I don't think that should have it's own article either.Ends Of Invention 15:56, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Normally I would vote for a merge, but that article is really good, and has enough original information to warrant keeping it. --Liface 23:39, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 * To be honest, I don't see what the original information is. All the Beach article has is an overview of the rules and an explanation of SOTG, all of which is contained in the main Ultimate article.  At the moment the only extra information is the size of the pitch and number of players, which could easily be added to the main article.  I think if people really want to keep the Beach article, it would be best to focus on any differences (pitch size, number of players, etc) to "normal" Ultimate rather than repeating the standard Ultimate rules (no running with the disc, no contact, etc).  That would make the article useful and save on repeated information - a good example of this is the Indoor_soccer article which only lists the rules that differ from normal soccer.  Ends Of Invention 01:19, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I started out the BU article. In the BULA-PR group we would like to create a more substantial article and translate it in various languages. You are right in saying that there is not much original information right now. I was planning to add a "history" section. I just need to find some historians (any one out there?). -nanoflop

As President of the Beach Ultimate Lovers Association (BULA) I am against merging the two. Beach Ultimate is a spin-off much like Beach Volleyball and Beach Soccer is. The sport is still young but is developing quickly. Content will become more original and with a much higher percentage of players in Latino and Mediterranean countries the sport will eventually have a different feel than grass Ultimate. Hopefully we can still save the Spirit of the Game in Beach Ultimate since that is getting slowly lost on grass. Beach and grass is not the same! (Patrick)


 * I tend to agree, Betacyte, although the article doesn't really show the difference. By the way, make sure to sign your comments with 4 tildas, like so:Leppy 06:26, 13 February 2006 (UTC)


 * OK, I admit my knowledge of beach ultimate is limited to Paganello and a hat tournment, so if you could expand the article to include more "unique" stuff and history that would be cool. Maybe as in the Indoor_soccer article you could focus on the rule differences plus the history of the game and major tournaments, and for an overview of the rules link to the main Ultimate article to avoid repeating lots of information.  Ends Of Invention 15:36, 13 February 2006 (UTC)


 * As I and Patrick said, the BU article will be expanded beginning with an history section. Perhaps the question is not: "Should the BU and Ultimate be merged?", but "What are the differences between Ultimate and BU?". One that emerged already is that BU players claim to take SOTG more seriously than "grass Ultimate" players and are often disappointed with "grass Ultimate" where at competitive level, and increasingly also at less-competitive level, SOTG gradually disappearing. At the Burla Beach Cup last September in Italy for the first time a team was banned from taking part in the tournament at the next edition due to bad spirit.


 * BU players are equally disappointed about observers, the discussed introduction of referees, and the drug-tests introduced at the last World Championships in Finland. -Nanoflop 21:10, 14 February 2006 (UTC)


 * that's all fine and good, but not at all significant to an article about either sport. It doesn't show anything significant about Ultinor does it tell you anything about BULA. It's simply unsupported opionions from BULA players about Ulti.Leppy 04:52, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * What can I say, we'll be adding more content to the BU page and we can take it from there. Nontheless the SOTG aspect is indeed significant to both sports. It's not an unsupported opinion from BULA players, but a widespread opinion among many European Ulti players and BU players in particular. It's been discussed many times particularly on European maling lists such as eurodisc and britdisc. In fact I don't think that we should discuss it more here. Nanoflop 00:10, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


 * In any case, I have removed the Merge requests to see how the BU article can develop. Ends Of Invention 23:36, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Make it encyclopedic
Can we get some work on the tone of the article a little bit to make it somewhat more encyclopedic? For instance, instead of expressing what a commonly accepted history of the origins to be, let's just say that there is uncertainty and dispute over the origins, then depict the possibilities and the substantiating evidence. Also, can we limit the "terms" to just those that are more official, and remove the lang and regional terms? Ideally I'd like to see this be in consideration for a featured article. Leppy 01:22, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I have some changes I want to avoid reverts with, so I'd like some consensus. First, I would like to remove all the tournaments that aren't significant, so really only the world/national championship tourneys remain. Second, I'd like to trim out a some of the excess external links, removing these:

* Jot's Ultimate Guide to Ultimate Frisbee * Ultimate Lingo * Ultilingo - a "dictionary" of Ultimate Frisbee slang * Ultimate Frisbee - strategy and coaching blog * Ultimate Talk Blog - Where Frisbee Blogs come together * RSD: The Ultimate Forum for All Ultimate News Leppy 13:07, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, personally I think that the Ultimate Guide is fine, but I'm biased (fyi, that's mine). I think Ultilingo and RSD are also fine and commonly known.  Also, if we need more images (and the new layout is nice) feel free to peruse this gallery and I'll make the appropriate ones creative commons.   Also, I'm time limited right now, so don't expect rapid response (a few days at least) Wikibofh(talk) 23:35, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree that those are all commonly known sites. But common knowledge isn't notability. I can point to about 20 other pages in my bookmarks that are well followed (although I already had you bookmarked) nothing makes any of them notable either, except that a lot of people read them. RSD is the only one that I even see as debateable, but even then, if you imagine it from the perspective of a person who's never heard of ultimate before, what makes it notable to the sport? I'm going to go ahead and Be bold and remove these links.Leppy 03:58, 9 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Trimming the links down to just inter/national associations and tournaments sounds good to me. Ends Of Invention 01:04, 9 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Since I have a link in there, I'm not going to disagree. :)  Thanks for being bold.  Wikibofh(talk) 15:06, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed these: Leppy 17:49, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) Kaimana Klassik, held every year in February in Oahu, Hawaii, USA.
 * 2) April Fools Fest, held every year, usually first weekend in April, in the Washington DC area (currently, Fredericksburg, Va.). USA
 * 3) WCU, Wonderful Copenhagen Ultimate, held every year in May in Copenhagen, Denmark.
 * 4) BritOpen, held every year in June in Eastbourne, United Kingdom.
 * 5) Burla Beach Cup, Beach Ultimate tournament, held every year in September in Viareggio, Italy.

Ultimate Frisbee = incorrect?
I was the one who originally added the phrase "incorrectly" to the intro (Ultimate (often called Ultimate Frisbee). I'm just not sure if it should be there or not. As Ultimate fanatics we tend to denounce the use of "frisbees" to refer to discs and "ultimate frisbee" instead of ultimate. I think if the term incorrectly was added it would show that it is sort of looked down-upon to say "Ultimate frisbee" for true Ultimate players. --Liface 23:53, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, it isn't technically incorrect because
 * 1) It was originally played with a frisbee
 * 2) It still can be played with a frisbee (which is even a "certified" disc)
 * My view is that it is what it is commonly known as. When you tell someone who knows nothing about it that you play "Ultimate" do you then explain the whole game, or follow up with "Ultimate Frisbee".  I do the latter and suspect it is the more common.  Thus my reasoning for removing "incorrectly". Wikibofh(talk) 00:04, 9 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree it's not "incorrectly" called Ultimate Frisbee, but the official name is "Ultimate". I think it should be noted that although it is a.k.a. Ultimate Frisbee, this is no longer the official name due to copyright/trademark issues, etc, and maybe that regular players only ever use the terms "Ultimate" for the sport and "disc" for the flying discs. Ends Of Invention 01:08, 9 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Yep, that is why the official article title is Ultimate (sport) and we say Ultimate Frisbee paranthetically, so I believe that's correct. Are we arguing the same point?  Wikibofh(talk) 01:27, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Er, I think so :) I just meant that I think we should specify briefly why the word "Frisbee" isn't used (officially) anymore.Ends Of Invention 15:29, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I did a quick google and couldn't find anything specific about the decision to remove Frisbee from Ultimate Frisbee. I like the idea of the section, but we'd need sources.  Wikibofh(talk) 21:23, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I admit I kind of just skimmed this section before taking "Ultimate Frisbee" out of the parenthesis. It looked better to me. Anyway, I'm going to put "flying" back into the frisbee link to clarify. --Christopherlin 06:50, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Featured picture?
I suggest nominating Image:UltiClubNationals05Layout.jpg for featured picture status, which would be greatly helped with a full-size version. What do you think? --Christopherlin 06:19, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The photographer can be contacted at scobel235@aol.com Leppy 23:50, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I found Scobel Wiggins, but found a lot of other photos there that were possible FPs.
 * In short, I haven't contacted Scobel yet.
 * PS - when you said above that you had permission, were you referring to specific permission or "Yes! You can use photos for promotional and recruitment purposes" at the bottom of the front page? --Christopherlin 00:17, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Specific permissionLeppy 12:45, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to Leppy for the nomination: Featured picture candidates/ultilayout. As of now, the votes are all oppose, basically for "too small". XD --Christopherlin 23:56, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Please add these to the article
Someone with more time than myself should add info from here to the article. The linked page is from the UPA and gives good info on the Ultimate Hall of Fame. Also, the issue of "founder" of Ultimate needs a good authoritative source, like the UPA's article on the founders of the sport. &mdash;WAvegetarian&bull; CONTRIBUTIONS TALK &bull; EMAIL &bull; 23:00, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Rules
We normally play (in Alaska) that if the disc hits the ground and starts rolling then its the other teams disc from where it stops rolling. both teams are allowed to stop the disc from rolling any farther. Note: This keeps there from being any disputes about where the frisbee hit. JedG 22:30, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
 * That's how we play in the UK too, although this is just what I've observed; I'm not sure of the actual rule. Ends Of Invention 01:45, 27 February 2006 (UTC)


 * It's the actual rule, although I'm not going to dig through 10th to find it. I'd be amused if it was played differently elsewhere.  The exception is if it rolls out of bounds, and then back in, the disk is played from where it first rolled out.  Wikibofh(talk) 23:54, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Try looking at VIII.B.7.a at the link below. Also pertinent is XVI.E.&mdash;WAvegetarian&bull; CONTRIBUTIONS TALK &bull; EMAIL &bull; 22:31, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey i think you should be able to catch your own throw if it is at a large distance, not if you throw it half a meter or anything, but like halfway downfield if the wind blows it back to where you can catch it
 * Well, I can throw it half way down the field and catch it there. I know some people who can pull it full field and catch it in the other endzone, with a tail wind, of course. You are free to play however you want, but if you want the official rule to change you will need to contact the UPA. If anyone is interested in reading the 10th edition rules, a nice html, linked indedx version can be found at http://www2.upa.org/ultimate/rules.&mdash;WAvegetarian&bull; CONTRIBUTIONS TALK &bull; EMAIL &bull; 22:31, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Great Article!
The article details ulitmate frisbee at length. While I'm not a die hard player, I have found it to be a fun sport to invite friends to play and a great way to stay active.

Throw techniques — forehand
It has been over a decade since I last played the game. I still find myself describing Ultimate to people that have never heard of Ultimate.

One aspect that I always make sure to point-out is the importance of technique. When you play Ultimate you generally cannot use a common backhand throw. Since you have a defender in your face counting you off, the typical throw in Ultimate is a forehand throw that reaches around the defender's torso -- a throw that requires practice. I think I was taught a forehand before learning any other rules or strategies of the sport.

The only place in the article (as of 3 April 2006) that speaks to forehand throw technique is the link to Disc throws as a "See also".

Forehand throw technique is important to mention in this article. An encyclopedia entry should describe something to a reader as if they just arrived from another planet.

Charles Gaudette 20:13, 3 April 2006 (UTC)


 * It would have to be a summary. As you noted, the Disc throws article is where most of this information is.  Wikibofh(talk) 21:39, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Highschool and Junior Leagues needs to change
If you look at any of the other articles about sports, and the rest of this article, specific teams are almost never mentioned, except in historical context. Therefore, there shouldn't be a sentence like "Some of the most noted high school teams playing at a national level include....." I could possibly, possiblysee a need to mention Amherst, and maybe paidiea and Northwest School, but Hopkins, Madison West and all the rest are unnecessary. --Jaguarkmd 23:16, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree that it has gotten somewhat out of hand. I don't think that comparing ultimate to other sports articles is truly fair in this instance, however. Ultimate is a young, quickly evolving sport. The UPA has been around for just over 25 years, yet we're already on the tenth edition of the rules. I think that mentioning Amherst, NW and Paidiea is important because it shows where the sport is coming from and where its future lies. Amherst is like the New York Yankees of high school ultimate, except with less hatred and more awe. The greater Boston area has been a hot spot for ultimate ever since Kass and Silver. The Seattle area has been strong with young players for a long time, has the largest and oldest youth league in the world (DiscNW), and recently swept every division of club level play. The Northwest School is coached by Joe Bisignano, one of the founders of DiscNW, and Mike Mullen, DiscNW director of youth ultimate. NW won Westerns in 2005 and based on the results so far this season has 3 teams ranked in the top 20 youth teams in the USA. Brown has the Paideia Years. A number of well known ultimate players have gone to Paideia, including Miranda Roth. From a quick google search, Paideia H.S. was ranked 74th in the nation in 2000. Not impressive, that ranking is the official collegiate ranking as published by the UPA College Rankings Office.  They have been open division national champions 2 out of the 8 years that there has been a national championship at the high school level, second only to Amherst's 4. They won the girls championship 5 years in a row, with the varsity team playing the junior varsity team for the championship in 2003. Northfield Mt. Hermon has been an open division semifinalist the last three years. The others just are regional powers, but just don't have the same national prowess. Having grown up living next door to two of the founders of the Northwest School and being best friends with their kids, not to mention playing against and having great respect for their ultimate team, I will abstain from making any controversial changes to this section. In the spirit of full disclosure, I'm also the cousin and current teammate of a recent graduate of Amherst. So if someone clear of baggage would be bold and knock off the teams that don't have a national level presence, it would be appreciated. &mdash;WAvegetarian&bull; CONTRIBUTIONS TALK &bull; EMAIL &bull; 02:59, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, I slimmed it down some plus changed inaccuracies and correct grammar issues.--Jaguarkmd 08:32, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
 * looks good&mdash;WAvegetarian&bull; CONTRIBUTIONS TALK &bull; EMAIL &bull; 19:49, 17 April 2006 (UTC)