Talk:Umm al-walad

List of useful references


 * The early Islamic mawālī: A window onto processes of identity construction and social change By Elizabeth Urban.
 * Gender and Slavery in Islamic Political Thought By Elizabeth Urban.

Bookku (talk) 09:46, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

This article is almost entirely false
The entire article uses mainly one source (Gordon & Hain 2017), and it's not clear to me whether it actually follows this source faithfully. There are several problems with what the text of the article says, as anyone with a surface level of knowledge regarding islamic history and fiqh would be able to show. There is almost not a single fact in the entire article that is completely true (even the Arabic term isn't translated correctly). I suggest this page be either removed or completely reworked with more sources. شاه عباس (talk) 14:56, 3 January 2024 (UTC)


 * Can you give examples of problems? VR talk 06:23, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
 * for example the idea that Shi'ite jurisprudence allows selling umm walads after having children. I can't name a single jurist who has said this, in fact the opposite is true. Secondly, the source of "Ali opposed Umar's ruling" is completely unclear to me. The whole article reads like some 18th century proto orientalist piece. شاه عباس (talk) 09:16, 27 January 2024 (UTC)

al-Daraqutni and al-Bayhaqi
IP 2a02:c7c:e83a:0::/64, you wrote to the article:

And your edit summaries for reinstating that claim:

However, here, I copied what the source actually said:

So, contrary to what your edit implies, al-Daraqutni and al-Bayhaqi were not saying that the hadith was Muhammad's remark, but rather that it was Umar's, which supports Ibn Kathir's argument. Do you understand? — Kaalakaa  (talk)  10:27, 6 January 2024 (UTC)