Talk:Under Milk Wood

CDs
Suggest some clarification about CDs available. I have seen/heard three different versions: one with Richard Burton narrating; one with Anthony Hopkins and Jonathon Pryce narrating; the third with Dylan Thomas narrating. This last was apparently done from a recording on 14 May, 1953, as a "full cast live reading in front of an audience, featuring Thomas as the narrator [...] Someone, perhaps for cast review purposes, placed a microphone connected to a small tape machine in front of the stage. Thomas did not live to participate in the planned studio recording." (Quote from a review for a related CD, "Dylan Thomas Unabridged: The Caedmon Collection" - http://www.greenmanreview.com/book/book_thomas_caedmonaudio.html) Wendy Collings 05:59, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Quotation
The quotation which preceeds the main text seems to be rather against the Manual of Style - I've never seen that on any other articles. It's been like that for ages, though, and I've no doubt it's an important quote, but surely it would be better later in the text? Bob talk 14:48, 26 July 2008 (UTC) -- Maelor 13:42, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed! It should not be there. -- Maelor 13:42, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

David Jason credits
It seems quite inappropriate to include the David Jason filmography etc in this article. I guess that it was included by mistake, and unless somebody objects I'll remove this section.

Eebkent (talk) 22:32, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

No comments received, so section now removed. Eebkent (talk) 09:56, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Casting check please
1.I've just added the column and cast for BBC's 'full version' broadcast on The Third Programme 11 Oct 1964. The cast is as listed on the BBC radio Collection CD.

2. Checking the BBC 24 Jan 1954 BBC radio cast (see first column) - according to Naxos CDs - Dai Bread was by Ben Williams (not David Close-Thomas); Mae Rose Cottage was played by Diana Maddox (not Rachel Roberts). BUT the Dai Bread & Mae Rose Cottage cast names do correspond with listing which accompanies Argo tapes - marked 1954 original recording.

3. Nogood and Gomer Owens for film and 2003 radio: please check, but I think I;ve corrected my own formatting errors here!--Tony in Devon (talk) 15:39, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Llareggub
The material on the Llareggub page should clearly be here - and I am about to add it integrate it here and subsequently ask for the separate page's deletion. Meanwhile, please forgive any slight duplication here while I edit.Tony in Devon (talk) 20:34, 4 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The play has 'Llaregyb', not 'Llareggub', although the latter has appeal to those wishing to spell out (literally) the likely joke arising from spelling the village's name backwards. 2A00:23EE:1850:48A0:B061:E110:9E9E:2C54 (talk) 18:50, 29 September 2023 (UTC)

authenticated cast for the original May 14 1953 New York performance
I am not an Anonymous Grandaughter -- Buddug Powell, the one I think we are taking about here is Buddug Mair Powell, still alive, living in Welwyn Garden City. I am her brother Gareth and I live in Sydney, Australia. As a family we were not close. Some thing I know but could never prove. Buddug sometimes used the shortened version of Beth, She married Jim Maxwell and was sometimes known as Beth Maxwell. True, the initial reading was in a hall the New York YMHA Poetry Center sounds likely. BUT, it was also performed on Broadway and failed. I remember this from my sister Buddug telling me of the last night which was attended by Marelene Deitrich. As the applause came after the last scene the caste togetherr bowed and quoted from the play, ''Too lat, cock, too late.' I have a CD somewhere which I shall look up with has Beth Powell listed. I have never heard it suggested within the massively extended family on Powells that Buddug ever appeared on radio or on stage with Dyland Thomas although both are possible.

Gareth Powell gp@mail.com

00 Hi, Anonymous Granddaughter,

Thanks for your interest in Dylan Thomas's Under Milk Wood. It wasn't clear whether you meant you are the granddaughter of Buddug Nair Powell or of Nancy Wickwire.

In either case, I am reverting your well-intentioned changes to the original May 14, 1953 casting, for the following reasons:


 * This initial reading was not given at any Broadway venue, but rather at the New York YMHA Poetry Center, in an unfinished version (Thomas was still rewriting the script right up until the time the reading started, and later made a number of revisions). I don't have the specifics of any Broadway performances, but they would have to have been later than this initial tryout, which was the only performance ever recorded with Thomas himself participating in reading parts.


 * The recording was made by and for the newly-organized Caedmon Records Inc, which issued Under Milk Wood as a 2-LP set, as part of a series of LPs of Thomas reading his own poetry and other of his works. The Caedmon LP was issued as "TC 2005". I have that original LP set in my hand right now as I am responding to you. Caedmon has in the past few years reissued a wonderful 11-CD set containing many of Thomas's readings, including this performance of Under Milk Wood, but with only truncated excerpts from the original liner notes.


 * This LP set has very extensive liner notes detailing the cast (including a photograph of them during the reading, complete with a caption identifying each of the six cast members). These are identified as being "Left to right, Dion Allen, Nancy Wickwire, Roy Poole, Dylan Thomas, Sada Thompson and Allen F. Collins". Immediately above this photograph is a complete listing of all of the parts taken by each reader; e.g.,
 * DYLAN THOMAS}
 * {1st Voice
 * {2nd Drowned
 * {5th Drowned
 * {Reverend Eli Jenkins


 * Nancy Wickwire is credited with reading twelve different characters, specifically including both Mrs. Cherry Owen and Bessie Bighead.


 * The liner notes give a long explanation of how there happened to be a total of only six readers at the original YMHA event, which boils down to the Y having asked Thomas how many he needed, and him simply pulling a number out of a hat, so to speak, because he had never thought of the question and had no idea. He suggested five in addition to himself, and entirely by coincidence, there were exactly five YMHA Poetry Center staff members - all experienced actors - on hand at the time: three men and two women. So these five joined Thomas to become readers in the play's premier.

It's great that you are able to add Buddug Mair Powell to the 1954 BBC broadcast. I notice you did add her name in this performance as reading Mrs. Cherry Owen, but you seem to have overlooked putting her in that column for Bessie Bighead, if she did take both parts in the BBC broadcast. In the meantime, if you have any further information about Broadway performances, it would be useful to add a even a partial cast list for these. Milkunderwood (talk) 00:41, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Poetry Centre or Poetry Center
A revision today (9 June 2011) by 94.13.51.207 has changed "Poetry Center" to "Poetry Centre". I don't *know* which is correct, though "Center" seems much more likely. If 94.13.51.207, or anybody else, has clear evidence (e.g. from the "Collected Letters") that "Centre" is correct, then I'll be happy with that. Googling for the correct spelling hasn't helped, since most references just seem to quote the sentence in Wikipedia. (Who is copying whom?!) If there is no clear evidence, I suggest we follow general US practice and revert to "Center". Eebkent (talk) 18:47, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

Quote about Hiroshima
I've had a Google for the alleged quote about Under Milk Wood being written in response to the Hiroshima bombing; the only things I found were articles clearly copying the line from Wikipedia and someone saying they strongly doubt he said it. I'm not sure where it's come from, if nobody can find a source I suggest it be deleted. --150.203.229.196 (talk) 04:04, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

First published
Shouldn't this article say when the book was first published and by whom? Thanks. 20.133.0.13 (talk) 11:39, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

When is the poem set?
I know there's a line "I will warm the sheets like an electric toaster" but I wondered when the poem is set? The toaster was invented in 1893... any thoughts/comments? Jonathan Ellis (talk) 20:04, 7 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, "Quite Early One Morning" is seen as a sketch for UMW and that was inspired by his moving to New Quay in West Wales in 1944. But I'm not sure that tells us anything about when this poem was set. Personally, I've always assumed it was recalling Thomas' own youth when he visited Fernhill, the dairy farm owned by his aunty Ann. So that would have been about 1920 onwards. There's not much modern technology to place it - there is a mention of "weekend motorists", but apart from that we also have - a carthorse, false teeth, Samson syrup, linoleum, asthma mixture, rubber gloves, a primus ring, weedkiler, "butterfly-collar and straw-hat" and milk churns. Lamps seem to be all the ones that need to be lit, i.e. gas lamps or oil lamps. I'd say 1920s certainly. But I suspect also that Thomas himself may have wanted it to appear to be, as far as possible, quite "timeless". Martinevans123 (talk) 20:41, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

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pronunciation
I removed this pronunciation, precisely because as the text already mentions, "gg" does not exist in Welsh spelling, so it is pointless to speculate about how it "would" be pronounced (the deleted suggestion hypothesises a geminate consonant). If someone wants to add how it is actually pronounced according to some source (a direct source for the IPA seems unlikely, but a reasonable transcription from a sound recording would seem to me good enough), then please go ahead. --Money money tickle parsnip (talk) 16:53, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi Nippy. The double g is a bit of a red herring, that I suspect would be ignored by most Welsh speakers. Just as the u transforming into a y is a handy poetic trick. The name in the play is simply Llaregyb, a perfected plausible Welsh name, and the IPA given for it (which I didn't add) seemed a fair rendition. Which is the "geminate consonant" that gives you such a problem? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:45, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
 * @User:Martinevans123: The pronunciation which I deleted said . The "geminate consonant" I refer to is the . (Small matters which I glossed over are that the transcription indicated gemination by both the ː symbol and also repeating the ɡ, rather than one or the other as would be more normal, and also that Help:IPA for Welsh uses instead of  for a short  . But these things could of course be corrected.) My main point is, it purported to be how Welsh speakers would pronounce Llareggub in Welsh. I suspect that you are right, and that Welsh speakers would simply ignore the extra "g", but frankly, it is all pointless speculation. I would be perfectly happy for us to include  as how Richard Burton actually pronounced the name (hear recording, at 0:39), as this is within the realm of verifiable fact rather than speculation, provided that it is phrased in a way that does not associate it with any particular spelling, as we do not know what was written in the copy that Burton was reading from. Should I go ahead and add it? --Money money tickle parsnip (talk) 09:42, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks very much. That's all perfectly clear and I totally agree. Your suggestion sounds very reasonable. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:29, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Now added. Tweak if you need. --Money money tickle parsnip (talk) 17:28, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Have added a link and ponced about with it a bit. I had forgotten how much lighter and high-pitched Burton sounds in that passage, almost with a Scottish accent at times. From the 1954 Argo album? Many miles away from the rough surly Hollywood growl we hear in later years. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:33, 29 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --Money money tickle parsnip (talk) 20:42, 29 June 2017 (UTC)

Images
Is the image of the CD front cover here copyright compliant for upload to Commons? Or how about the image of the plaque to Captain Cat here? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:30, 16 August 2021 (UTC)

Criterion for Principle Production section
There is a Principle Production section but no explanation as to what constitutes a principle production. I have recently added the 2021 National Theatre production but would argue that this production was more prominent than the BBC radio production, if prominence is the criterion to be considered “principle”. Should the 2021 production be added to the Principle Productions? Jo Jc Jo (talk) 22:39, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Opening paragraph notable productions removal
I see no reason to distinguish the 1972 and 2014 productions in the opening paragraph above other prominent productions that are listed in the below section and suggest they are removed from the opening paragraph. Jo Jc Jo (talk) 23:08, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

Op cits
Op cits are not used in Wikipedia. A different format needs to be used. Brenont (talk) 02:07, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

1954 Richard Burton recording in Readings section
the link to this was broken so I found another copy on YouTube. As far as I can tell it is the 1954 version but I'd like someone to check it if they can. KaraLG84 (talk) 15:48, 25 January 2024 (UTC)


 * The fact that the previous one was taken down with a copyright claim by "Penguin Random House" suggests it was in breach of copyright. The current one you have linked to was uploaded to YT by a user called "down under" and they have provided no information that suggests this is not also a copyright violation. However, this one says: Provided to YouTube by Universal Music Group, Under Milk Wood (Part 1) · Richard Burton Under Milk Wood ℗ 1954 Decca Music Group Limited Released on: 1954-01-01 Author: Dylan Thomas Auto-generated by YouTube. So that looks wholly legit to me. Not sure if Part 2 is also available by the same music publisher (UMG). Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:06, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks. It doesn't look like it has been uploaded, sadly. There's one released by Decca but it doesn't have the provided to YouTube Message. KaraLG84 (talk) 16:34, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * You mean you can't see the one I've linked? Or do you want me to paste the link into the article? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:36, 25 January 2024 (UTC) p.s. the one there by Guy Masterson also looks a bit suspect, although it is only a 3-minute extract, obviously shot from the audience during a live performance.
 * Sorry I meant I couldn't find part 2. KaraLG84 (talk) 16:48, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Ah yes, me neither. I guess Part 1 is better than nothing. It's a good 45 minutes. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:53, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I've added part 1. KaraLG84 (talk) 16:57, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * This link might be better for Guy Masterson, or maybe this one? Martinevans123 (talk) 17:23, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * I did wonder what to do with the Guy Masterson one. I used the first link in your comment. KaraLG84 (talk) 17:48, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * About 100 times better, I think. I guess we could add a credit to Lakeside Arts. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:51, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Brilliant idea. I've done it. KaraLG84 (talk) 18:44, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

St Mary's/ St Mair's
I have added this detail at Merthyr Vale. Has this got mixed up with St Mary's in Dowlais? This source says the Welsh church in Dowlais (described in the Western Mail piece as just "The New Church") was opened in 1871? But not sure when it was ever "demolished"? Am a bit confused. Not 100% sure that source, that I've also used, is reliable. Perhaps there are some better sources. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:32, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * The current source in this article for the demolition of St Mary's/ St Mair's here shows St Mary's in Aberdare? Martinevans123 (talk) 18:42, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
 * So the link to those images at Aberdare Library look like a bit of red herring. What exactly does D. N. Thomas (2002) say on p.73 of The Dylan Thomas Trail? The only reference I can find to a St Mary's in Dowlais is the current Catholic church. Martinevans123 (talk) 08:02, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Philoshave, could you tell us what's on page 73? Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:13, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Martin, mostly about the relationships between New Quay and Dowlais, plus stuff on the church, graveyard etc. Best Philoshave Philoshave (talk) 18:16, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Phil, does it say "... when St Mair's Welsh-speaking church in Dowlais was demolished in 1963..." or similar? Adding an appropriate quote to the ref might be useful? And that current source with the photo.... that's Aberdare?? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:50, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks, Martin, that's very helpful. I've now changed that footnote. Philoshave (talk) 17:29, 9 March 2024 (UTC)