Talk:Under My Skin (Avril Lavigne album)

Table
I'm not sure if I added the table correctly or if something is missed. I just took all information from the page itself but put it in table form. Well, feel free (how else) to edit any mistakes. --KeyStorm 21:33, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Tour dates
Those weren't future tour dates, Mel, they were past tour dates. Everyking 10:09, 8 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Sorry &mdash; slip of the fingers (or the mind). In either case, they don't really belong in the article, though. Mel Etitis  ( &Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf; ) 10:27, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
 * It seems reasonable to me to have it included, but I'm not going to argue about it. Everyking 10:37, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Nabber00 (talk &middot; contributions) has just re-added the tour dates (together with something about hyphens that didn't seem to refer to anything in his or her edit). They surely don't belong here because they're simply not encyclop&aelig;dic; a mere list of dates in a singer's tour schedule? That might be useful for a ticket office, if they're future dates, or for the back of a T-shirt if they're past ones like these, but not for a Wikipedia article. Mel Etitis ( &Mu;&epsilon;&lambda; &Epsilon;&tau;&eta;&tau;&eta;&sigmaf; ) 19:25, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Josh Freese on drums??
Hey, can anyone tell me which tracks on this album Josh Freese played on? Thanks --Treebo 09:54, 24 August 2005 (UTC)


 * Take Me Away and Forgotten. Lenne 19:21, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

Extra articles?
Since most, if not all, of the singles on Let Go have their own articles, shouldn't there be ones for Under My Skin? MorwenofLossarnarch 21:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Subjective?
I think this article is a bit too opinionated, it mostly looks down on the CD as being a flop. I know My Happy Ending went to #1 on many charts, as well as Nobody's Home, and Fall To Pieces was well-received in Canada. He Wasn't was a single but wasn't released in the US. And the release of Under My Skin knocked Usher's Confessions off the top spot on a certain music chart, where it had been for six weeks. I would add this all myself but as it is old info, I won't find it on fansites and I'm terrible at searching for articles. Britishenglish 22:24, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Post-grunge?
I thought I should set up a section about whether or not this album can be considered post-grunge. Songs from 'Let Go' (mainly 'Losing Grip' and 'Unwanted') had strong guitars that are usually associated with grunge. The rest of the song, along with Avril's natural pop vibe, watered them down so they're usually known as post-grunge rather than grunge. I suppose my point is that I don't think any songs on Under My Skin had these grungey characteristics. I welcome genre changes as it would be hipocritical of me not to, but in this case I think that post-grunge should be kept out unless someone can find a reliable source stating that Under My Skin is a post-grunge album. Zylo1994 (talk) 18:09, 10 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The album is not completly post-grunge... Just look at the producer of the album... Raine Maide from a post-grunge band, Ben Moody, Don Gilomore, and Butch Walker (who had a band with influences of post-grunge), these are people who had/have post-grunge influences in their music (just look for it for example in allmusic's music style)

And they mark it on Under My Skin, not necesarilly so hard, because Under my skin has more Pop-rock alternative roots, but with some post-grunge oriented sounds. It is more easy to find when the songs are listened by the instrumental part. I give for example songs that have that vibe: Forgotten (even if you heard the live version of Korea, you will hear some post-grunge influences), Freak Out (listen the riff at the beggining), Nobody's Home guitars (it sounds soft but it can be heard the influences), Daydream (the guitar riff in the chorus) Maybe that 'post-grunge' doesn´t sound as hard as bands like Nickelback, Creed, Hoobastank, etc But it has a more pop-rock soft vibe, like Alanis Morissette who is considered also post-grunge by her two first album (Jagged little pill and Supossed I. Junkie...)

In other hand, pop-punk should be added, because songs like He Wasn't, I Always Get What I Want, Take It, Take Me Away, Together have their pop-punk influences, and also some resources give it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.185.157.254 (talk) 13:55, 5 May 2010 (UTC)


 * My original comment was written a few months ago and in that time we've decided (on the main Avril Lavigne article) that ALL genres must be sourced. If you can find a source for post-grunge then feel free to add it to the list.Zylo1994 (talk) 15:58, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Genres
I don't see the point of putting the genres in the background section...I mean it's just kinda obvious that you put the genres in the genres section of the infobox, anyways, if we are definitely just putting 2 genres in the infobox I would say those aren't even the ones we should put...well I still think we should put ALL the genres in the infobox since that's basically what you're supposed to do... Whatever318 (talk) 14:07, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Any song, artist, or album that has a wide enough variety of sources to create a large list should have its own paragraph in the prose to describe how varied the genre is. The infobox is only a summary, so only the basic genres should be listed there, which should be Pop and Rock (going to change that after editing here).   Having multiple genres within the infobox only supports editwarring, so having some rules is a good way to keep it under control to avoid any opinionated edits. :)  ~ [  Scott M. Howard  ] ~ [  Talk  ]:[  Contribs  ] ~  21:30, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Strange, since I think that only putting in two genres would cause bigger edit-warring of people changing genres to the ones they believe summarize it best. But if you put the genres that are now listed in the background it wouldn't since everyone would be happy since the genre they were fighting for would be included. Whatever318 (talk) 00:45, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
 * This is most definitely not true. If there is a large list of genres, that has the opposite effect.  Person A thinks it's "Power punk", but Person B thinks it's "hard rock" (obviously just random genres used here for example purposes only).  Having both of them makes both of them mad because Person A thinks Person B's genre is stupid and Person B thinks Person A's genre is stupid.  They're not happy that everyone is included they're unhappy because their opinion on the proper genre isn't the only opinion.  Genre editwarring is one of the most pointless parts of the Music articles on Wikipedia, but it's so prevalent.
 * The best method is to establish a consensus on what should be in the infobox, either the core genres ("pop" and "rock", here), or nothing at all (see Evanescence), and just describe all the varied genre descriptions in the prose. The reason is because genre is just that: opinion.  So many different magazines call the same song/album/artist so many different things that the meaning of such specific genres are pointless.  All of the specific genres fall into the greater categories anyway, so the best thing to do is to summarize in the infobox since that's what it's for.  And go into detail down below.
 * My use of the word "best" comes from a few years of experience on the Music articles on Wikipedia. I can't say I'm an expert and that's the way things need to happen, but using this method has definitely shown the least amount of editwarring/vandalism with regards to genre, at least on articles that I've had a hand in editing that is.  Hope this bit of reasoning gives a satisfactory peek into my brain =P  ~ [  Scott M. Howard  ] ~ [  Talk  ]:[  Contribs  ] ~  01:46, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree, but most definitely believe that "pop" doesn't describe this album at all except for slight pop rock influences, maybe that could be changed to "alternative rock" since I believe that describes this album more than pop would and that the album is mainly composed of rock and alternative rock. Whatever318 (talk) 03:12, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Please don't revert cited material without reason. If you want to add any other genres, you need sources per WP:RS. Andrzejbanas — Preceding unsigned comment added by 183.171.179.54 (talk) 14:17, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Temporarily protected
I'll temporarily protected this page from editing by unregistered/unconfirmed editors due to the ongoing genre-warring taking place. Personally I couldn't give two hoots which genre gets first listing in the infobox, but for those that clearly do care, this is the place to discuss it prior to any further changes being made. Yunshui 雲 &zwj; 水  10:11, 7 January 2014 (UTC)


 * Khm. I think, 'Under My Skin' is her more open for conversations album. If we talking about genres, I think that 'alternative rock' can be placed to first place HERE. Why? At first, dramatical thematic of songs talking about less popularity, because soft rock songs are often about love and pop rock - about love or fun (many of critics are talking about lyrical/musical smiliarities with Evanescence's 'Fallen'). Many of album's songs are anti-love and slighty gothic. At second, pure modern post grunge sound with elements of hard rock (How Does it Feel, Slipped Away) or even alternative metal ("Take Me Away", "Forgotten") and glam metal (Freak Out) are may be considered as pure alternative rock songs. "Don't Tell Me", "Nobody's Home", "My Happy Ending" etc. are pure alternative rock songs with post-grunge sound and punk pop/rock vibe. Only pure pop rock song here is "Who Knows". And practically all of critics named main album's genre is alternative rock. Even line with genres in the "Background" part of page actually doesn't have something prooves for pop rock (regular users of these sites can do anything with them). Waiting for answer:)

User:Mr. LuxeTH 03/02/2014, 22:34 (MSK) —Preceding undated comment added 16:35, 3 February 2014 (UTC)

Greats stubborness about pop punk
Really. Just let's vote it. Only pop punk song on the album is He Wasn't which als ohas post-grunge. I remove the genre but some of you just keep adding. Only 1 song because I Always Get What I Want is a bonus track for UK/Japan. There is no such world. Do anyone add alternative metal because of Take Me Away? Or rock music which is more dominant than pop punk on the record like the single Fall to Pieces? And in background the situation is given as: "Critics described Under My Skin as post-grunge[19][20][21] album with alternative rock[22][23][24][25][26] and pop punk[27][28][29][30][31] roots " Plus, what I think about referances:


 * 1) Musicmp3.ru is a unreliable source. Just hell no.
 * 2) [27]BlueBeat even lists irrelevant genres like Teen Pop, 21st Century Pop besides Pop Punk.
 * 3) [31]Sanity just talks about her punk princess thing. You can't bring everything has the word punk in.
 * 4) [28]WebCite failes to open PopMatter stream.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dkisnis (talk • contribs) 12:05, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

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Nu metal "verge" or "edge" or "tinged"
Nu metal has been added to the infobox with some refs. Here's what the refs say:
 * AV Club: "Niggling inconsistencies might not matter much, but they signal Under My Skin's fateful habit of falling toward a default doom-and-gloom mode. Mascara-streaked moods dictate an excess of ballads and rockers that trade in sterile nü-metal crunch, leaving Lavigne's pop-punk spunk by the wayside."
 * BBC: "The combined writing efforts of band mate, Evan Taubenfeld, ex Evanescence guitarist Ben Moody and the watchful eye of Linkin Park producer Da Gilmore infuse the album with a nu-metal edge that might levitate this release from the ashes of forgettable rock..."
 * EW.com by Brian Hiatt: Hiatt says that "Don't Tell Me" and "He Wasn't" are pop punk, the rest are "minor-key rock tunes". Two songs sound like early Alanis Morrissette. [Does that mean pre-1995 dance-pop or the alt-rock of Jagged?] The song "Freak Out" "grafts a melodic chorus onto a mock-metal guitar groove." [Is mock-metal the same as pop metal or is it nu metal?] Other songs bend in "the direction of Evanescence's moody, thrashy-but-catchy metal." [Does that mean goth metal or alt metal or nu metal?] "Take Me Away" comes "complete with pop-metal guitar blasts à la Linkin Park."
 * Music-Critic.com (is this reliable?): "Well, and there’s a couple of big-hair power ballads here too. And some stuff that sludges along dangerously using tricks learned from Swedish metal bands..." " 'Forgotten' does, in fact, honestly sound like Swedish techno/metal band the Gathering, except fronted by a teen-pop princess..." Are they referring to Dutch band The Gathering (band)? Nothing about nu metal here.
 * Hollywood.com: the album is "nu-metal tinged".
 * MTV: "But actually it's a pair of songs penned with her guitarist Evan Taubenfeld that sound the most like nü-metal." Two nu metal songs on the album, not the overall album genre. These two would be "Take Me Away" and "Freak Out", the ones with music by Taubenfeld.
 * EW.com by David Browne: Browne says "Lavigne has transformed into a dour teen who seems to have spent way too much time listening to Evanescence. The production and songwriting—courtesy of ex-Evanescence grunt Ben Moody and producers known for working with Linkin Park and Simple Plan—verge on nü-metal..."

The only ones here saying the album might be nu metal are AV Club. The other ones pull their punches by saying nu metal is just two songs, or by saying nu metal is an influence, using words like "verge", "edge" and "tinged". Brian Hiatt of EW never says nu metal. The Music-Critic.com piece is probably not reliable, and it doesn't explicitly say nu metal. Binksternet (talk) 17:00, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Entertainment Weekly article
The articke has expired & I really wanna updaye ot, except thete's no link whether active or inactive 47.17.47.199 (talk) 16:12, 19 December 2022 (UTC)
 * STOP REMOVING THE NAME OF THE MAGAZINE! We talked about this already! You can update the URL but don't remove the magazine name. If you do both of those things I will always revert you. Binksternet (talk) 16:42, 19 December 2022 (UTC)