Talk:Unidentified flying object/Archive 10

time to move to UAP
Given the more comprehensive term of Unidentified Anomolous Phenomenon, given its being used in numerous articles, is it time to change the main title to UAP? Lonestar-physicist (talk) 02:49, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * No. Most all reliable sources for this topic have used, and continue to use, the term UFO. Perhaps a name-change will be appropriate when and if that situation ever changes. See earlier discussions on this Talk page. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 03:07, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * CBS and CNN are using UAP. Given that UAP actually covers not only Aerial/flying objects, but also submersive, outer space, etc, why do you think we shouldn't use the more comprehensive term? Also US congress is using the term UAP.
 * https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-are-uaps-unexplained-aerial-phenomenon-ufos-new-name/
 * https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2023/07/26/exp-space-uap-congress-aliens-fst-072612pseg1-cnni-us.cnn Lonestar-physicist (talk) 04:26, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * High ranking DOD officials are also using this term more and more:
 * https://defensescoop.com/2023/08/30/hicks-takes-direct-oversight-of-pentagons-uap-office-new-reporting-website-to-be-launched/
 * "Hicks told DefenseScoop: “The department takes UAP seriously because UAP are a potential national security threat. They also pose safety risks, and potentially endanger our personnel, our equipment and bases, and the security of our operations. " Lonestar-physicist (talk) 04:28, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

This notion has already been discussed here and consensus was that recent emergence of the term 'UAP' in the United States has not suddenly eliminated the longstanding global context and use of the term 'UFO'. - LuckyLouie (talk) 13:44, 31 August 2023 (UTC)


 * it's a changing situation. So "longstanding global context" is more important than being more accurate and comprehensive? Lonestar-physicist (talk) 14:06, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * That is a false dichotomy. As has been suggested to you twice already, please read the prior discussions on this Talk page. I also suggest that you read WP:CONSENSUS, which describes the fundamental model through which article content on Wikipedia is decided/determined by editors. JoJo Anthrax (talk) 15:07, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes I have read that. Do you have anything to back up your claims that it's a false dichotomy or is it just your opinion? Lonestar-physicist (talk) 15:19, 31 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia operates by consensus, and policy-based rationales on Talk pages are given the most credence rather than internet debating skills. A relevant policy for this discussion is WP:COMMONNAME. As discussed earlier on this Talk page, the term 'UFO' is the most common name for this particular topic as evidenced by the vast majority of cited sources both current and historical that use it. 'UAP' may someday be the defacto term for the topic, but until it is, we stick with the current one. Wikipedia naturally 'drags its feet' and never leads the charge, preferring to wait for a vast majority of reliable sources to reflect fundamental shifts in terminology. - LuckyLouie (talk) 17:08, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * so facts are secondary to arbitrary wikipedia policies? weird. Lonestar-physicist (talk) 17:19, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The 'facts' confirm that UFO is still by far the common name, and Wikipedia goes by the common name. As do most sources - that's why it's common. MrOllie (talk) 17:26, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ok if you say so... Lonestar-physicist (talk) 17:27, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * is there a way to conduct a poll on wikipedia to see what other editors think who may not feel comfortable discussing this due to stigma? Lonestar-physicist (talk) 17:31, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * No, we don't base content decisions on secret ballots. MrOllie (talk) 17:41, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * not secret ballots. public ballots. Lonestar-physicist (talk) 18:05, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I invite editors to vote on this public poll:
 * "Fiat determinatio per omnes populos"
 * https://poll-maker.com/poll4919153x6D5d40Ef-152 Lonestar-physicist (talk) 18:17, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Please don't waste people's time with off-site polling that could not possibly be used here. MrOllie (talk) 18:21, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I'm not mandating this or making people participate in this poll. you're welcome to not participate. Lonestar-physicist (talk) 18:42, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * please stay on the subject and don't make this personal. Lonestar-physicist (talk) 18:42, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Should UFO/UAP be moved to a more apropriate top section?
given recent developments and announcement by DOD deputy, should UAPs move to a new top section eg. National Security? right now it's categorized under hoaxes!

https://defensescoop.com/2023/08/30/hicks-takes-direct-oversight-of-pentagons-uap-office-new-reporting-website-to-be-launched/?

from the article: "When asked why she went all-in on prioritizing AARO as an element under her purview, particularly now, Hicks told DefenseScoop: “The department takes UAP seriously because UAP are a potential national security threat. They also pose safety risks, and potentially endanger our personnel, our equipment and bases, and the security of our operations. DOD is focusing through AARO to better understand UAP, and improve our capabilities to detect, collect, analyze and eventually resolve UAP to prevent strategic surprise and protect our forces, our operations, and our nation.” Lonestar-physicist (talk) 04:32, 31 August 2023 (UTC)


 * not to mention White house John Kirby also said UAP are affecting military training. Lonestar-physicist (talk) 04:32, 31 August 2023 (UTC)


 * You are using unusual terminology. What does "should UAPs move to a new top section eg. National Security" mean? What is a "top section" supposed to be, and how do UAPs "move" there? And what is "categorized under hoaxes"? Category:Hoaxes does not seem to contain anything like that.
 * I cannot even tell whether you are talking about improving the article Unidentified flying object or not. If not, you are in the wrong place. If yes, with "top section" you could mean the lead or lede, the part which starts with "An unidentified flying object (UFO), or" and ends with "understandable with psychosocial explanations." In that case, UAP is already there. --Hob Gadling (talk) 06:28, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I think I misunderstood something. apologies you're right. Lonestar-physicist (talk) 14:07, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

Should UFO still be categorized as Pseudoscience and fringe science?
I recently got a notification on my talkpage when I edited this article.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Lonestar-physicist#Introduction_to_contentious_topics

So is UFO considered Pseudoscience and fringe science? if so why is US government considers it a national security threat and scientifically analyzing it?

this is from AARO website published today:

https://www.aaro.mil/

"Our team of experts is leading the U.S. government’s efforts to address Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP) using a rigorous scientific framework and a data-driven approach. Since its establishment in July 2022, AARO has taken important steps to improve data collection, standardize reporting requirements, and mitigate the potential threats to safety and security posed by UAP."

https://defensescoop.com/2023/08/30/hicks-takes-direct-oversight-of-pentagons-uap-office-new-reporting-website-to-be-launched/?utm_content=262515320&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&hss_channel=tw-1450183022616121344

from the article: "When asked why she went all-in on prioritizing AARO as an element under her purview, particularly now, Hicks told DefenseScoop: “The department takes UAP seriously because UAP are a potential national security threat. They also pose safety risks, and potentially endanger our personnel, our equipment and bases, and the security of our operations. DOD is focusing through AARO to better understand UAP, and improve our capabilities to detect, collect, analyze and eventually resolve UAP to prevent strategic surprise and protect our forces, our operations, and our nation.” Lonestar-physicist (talk) 17:02, 31 August 2023 (UTC)


 * If UFO is same as vampires and warewolves, why does US gov has a entity within DOD for UAP called AARO? Lonestar-physicist (talk) 17:10, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes, it should, as explained at Talk:Pseudoscience. Please don't make duplicate posts on multiple talk pages like this. MrOllie (talk) 17:25, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I discovered the second page later and posted there as well to get the most people engaged in this important conversation. I think the more opinions we have on this is better. Lonestar-physicist (talk) 17:30, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I invite editors to vote on this public poll:
 * "Fiat determinatio per omnes populos"
 * https://poll-maker.com/poll4919153x6D5d40Ef-152 Lonestar-physicist (talk) 18:21, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Polling is not a substitute for discussion MrOllie (talk) 18:22, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * agreed. I totally welcome everyone engaging in this discussion. Polling helps other editors who may be deterred by illogical stigma around this subject to participate as well. Lonestar-physicist (talk) 18:37, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You have fundamentally misunderstood Wikipedia's decision making process. You should read the links provided. MrOllie (talk) 18:55, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ok how about you keep your opinions to yourself? instead you can contribute positively to thhis article instead of being nasty and making things personal. THank you sir/madam. Lonestar-physicist (talk) 19:09, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I'll comment as I please, thanks. If you don't want people to point out that your arguments are completely out of touch with how Wikipedia makes decisions you should consider reading our policies, especially when they've just been linked for you. MrOllie (talk) 19:14, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Please stop disruptively editing. thanks. if you can't contribute to this article, find a better hobby. Lonestar-physicist (talk) 19:18, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
 * You can always tell an argument is going well when the personal attacks come out. You're right, though, we've accomplished everything this thread is going to accomplish - you now know that per Wikipedia's policies, this article can and will continue to identify Ufology as a pseudoscience. Feel free to take the last word if you require it. MrOllie (talk) 19:24, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

@User:Lonestar-physicist. You have been on Wikipedia one day. How Wikipedia's editorial policies apply to this topic has been patiently explained to you on multiple pages by a number of experienced editors. Saying This is all to improve the article and don't make it personal doesn't excuse an ongoing pattern of WP:BATTLEGROUND and WP:IDHT behavior. I seriously suggest you take some time to read the encyclopedia's editorial policies before continuing. This kind of ongoing WP:DISRUPTION isn't usually tolerated on article Talk pages for long. - LuckyLouie (talk) 19:25, 31 August 2023 (UTC)


 * You're accusing me of exactly what MrOllie and yourself are doing. Please mind your own business. Thanks. Lonestar-physicist (talk) 19:33, 31 August 2023 (UTC)