Talk:Unit of alcohol/Archive 1

Globalize/UK
There is a comment that this article needs 'Globalization' and is currently too UK-centric. Having looked at that issue and the corresponding article on Standard drink, it seems that there is a fundamental underlying difference between the UK concept of a "unit of alcohol" and the concept of a "Standard drink" used in other countries. Hence, I think that the two concepts require separate articles, and that 'Globalization' of this article is not possible. But if there are other countries using the "unit of alcohol" concept, then they could be included in this article.

In the meantime, however, I've restricted the intro for this article to the UK, but included cross-refs to other countries using "Standard drinks". I'm open-minded as to whether this article should be renamed to "Unit of alcohol (UK)".

Having amended the intro, I'm proposing:

(i) to move content specifically relating to "Standard drink" to that article if not already present there;

(ii) to make consequential and updating revisions to the rest of this article.

See also the comment under Talk:Standard drink relating to Merging unit of alcohol where it is suggested that merging the two articles would be inappropriate, altho' they could both be included under an "overview article".

--TrevorD (talk) 17:05, 11 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi, I've been editing the Standard drink article, where the table of figures was rather confusing, and I think the article still needs improvement. I do think I favour merging these articles, or certainly renaming this one UK unit of alcohol. Could someone say more about what they see as the "fundamental underlying difference" between the concepts of "standard drink" and "unit of alcohol"? Because to my mind they both simply define a fixed quantity of alcohol.


 * I know the defined quantity differs from country to country, and some base it on volume while others use a mass in grams. But these are differences of definition, not fundamental conceptual differences. The mass and volume measurements are easily interchangeable via the density of alcohol. And then the different countries call their quantity by different names, e.g. standard drink (US, Australia), standardglas (Germany), áfengiseining (Iceland), unita standard (Italy), unit of alcohol (UK).


 * But once the unit or standard is defined it can be applied to any alcoholic drink of any strength or size. So you know how many áfengiseining (or whatever) are in your bottle of beer or shot of vodka. And government agencies can issue public health advice, labelling rules can be applied, drinkers know how to monitor their consumption and so on. That's what I mean about there being no conceptual difference. FrankP (talk) 20:42, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Untitled
The statement that one unit corresponds to 8g equal to 1/4 oz must be incorrect. 1 oz (UK) is appr. 30 ml, 1/4 is 7.5 ml, which weighs 6g.


 * I think the ounce referred to there is one of weight (probably Avoirdupois, or however that word is spelled). So 8 g would be pretty close to it, then, at 7.087 g/oz. And it's probably been converted from grams to ounce, rather than the other way around, and 1/4 oz is easier to comprehend (for those using pesky non-decimal measuring systems) than 0.2822 oz. -- John Owens 05:59 Apr 10, 2003 (UTC)

USA
Does anyone know about American systems (if there is one, how it's employed) for alcoholic units?

Thanks SableSynthesis 22:00, 6 Nov 2003 (UTC)~

Thanks !! Great information !!!!

There is no system. Americans have no idea how many units they are drinking, just the type of beverage and the ounces. So they'd have to read a label (impossible if you're drinking a draft) to know how drunk a pint of beer is going to get them.

(FWIW, I deal with alcoholic beverage stats for a living and wish we did have a consistent way to measure consumption.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.65.182.237 (talk) 17:46, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Please relate to everyday American units
The quantities described are difficult to relate to real life, especially for the non-metric USA. Americans aren't conscious of drinking 175 ml of wine. Possibly add pictures of actual wine glasses in typical sizes, filled to a certain level, and show how many units are in each. Are white and red wines similar? For beer, Americans typically drink 12-ounce cans. I've never heard anyone refer to a half-pint of beer outside the US. For spirits, you mention a measure without saying what it is. The large end of an American shot-glass is one ounce. Please relate units of alcohol to ounces of liquor. This could be useful information if it were expressed in the units commonly in the US.


 * Alcohol units are a UK thing, created by the UK government as a public health measure to help people know how much alcohol they drink. They're okay, but there are a few problems with them.  It's tricky to convert them to be useful to Americans.  As you say, Americans buy drinks in ounces, not millilitres, and US drinks often use a "proof" and not "alcohol by volume" rating.  Dan Beale-Cocks  12:55, 27 March 2008 (UTC)


 * In the US, alcohol concentration is measured as a percentage by weight of alcohol compared to the overall weight. This is grams of alcohol per 100 grams of drink, or approximately grams of alcohol per decilitre. The word "proof" originally related to the distillation process, but now is used as equivalent to 1/2 percent by weight (limited to 120 proof, percentage ABW is normally used above 50% ABW). Drbits (talk) 05:01, 18 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Please relate American units to the near the entirety of the rest of the world, rather than the other way round. 109.156.248.174 (talk) 23:37, 8 August 2014 (UTC)


 * Please do not use the word "America" (or American) to refer to the United States of America. America is the entire Western Hemisphere. Unfortunately, "American" is the only accepted term for a person from the United States of America (a USA citizen or permanent resident immigrant). Alternatives such as Colonist or Yank are considered derogatory and Yankee refers to a person from the New England (North East) states. Appropriate abbreviations for the "United States of America" are the "United States", "USA", "US", or (less commonly) the "States". Drbits (talk) 06:45, 16 March 2016 (UTC)


 * Seeing as the article itself is about units of alcohol, and the US does not yet have "units", there is no reason that it should be presented in a US form. As for how much a "measure" is, the Weights and Measures Act clearly states what it is, and as the article relates mainly to UK units, then it is not unreasonable to assume that a person reading it will understand, or at least look up, what a meausre. But to be helpful; Weights and Measures Act m8e39 05:53, 9 August 2014 (UTC)


 * The US uses Standard Drinks instead of units. One US standard drink is approximately equal to 16 grams of alcohol (1.4 fluid ounces of 40% ABW in a 1.5 fluid ounce "shot" glass). Most people in the US only know about standard drinks as they relate to the legal blood alcohol concentration for driving an automobile. In most states, this is 0.8g alcohol per litre of blood ("buzzed"). People are advised that this is no more than 3 standard drinks for a 70kg person (the body metabolises the alcohol over time, but the rate differs from person to person). Drbits (talk) 05:01, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The US standard drink is 14g not 16g, and is equivalent to the alcohol content of a 1.5oz shot of 40% ABV spirits -- see NIH guidance. FrankP (talk) 21:27, 14 December 2019 (UTC)


 * Please note that the US Code of LAws states categorically that System International (metric system) is the preferred system for trade in the USA — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.153.225.72 (talk) 18:07, 14 September 2014 (UTC)


 * The metric system has been the standard in the US since before 1990. Almost all packaged food in the US is marked with both metric (SI) and US (USCS) units. The standard measure of alcohol content in the US is percentage by weight (ABW, approximately 0.79336 times percentage by volume (ABV). The US should definitely not be combined into this article. Drbits (talk) 06:45, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
 * The former comment is incorrect, ABV is the Federal standard for alcohol labelling in the US. See Treasury guidance for wine, spirits and beer. I believe that State laws may override in the case of beer, but I'm not sure if this happens in practice. FrankP (talk) 21:27, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Size of unit
Different sources give different quantities of alcohol for a unit. This article states 8 g, I have seen 10 g and 14 g. Sources needs to be shown.
 * All of the "external links" below the article state 10ml (which is 7.89 g). Where have you "seen" 12 g? -- Marcika (talk) 19:04, 15 October 2010 (UTC)


 * The Danish National Board of Health uses the 12 g/15 ml definition as seen here. This has the benefit of easy calculation in a Danish context as it roughly matches:
 * * 1 flask (33 cl) of pilsner beer (at 4,6-4,8 % ABV and the most prevalent type of beer). Standard sizes for both cans and flasks of beer in Denmark is 33 cl, although larger cans of 50 cl and flasks of 50-100 cl can be found. On tap, a small beer is usually 25 cl and a large 50 cl.
 * * 1 (12 cl) glass of wine
 * * a double shot (4 cl) of hard liquor at 40 % ABV (a few places may use 4 cl as their "standard" measure, though)
 * * or 8 cl of fortified wine.
 * For years the standard recommendation was "men no more than 21, women no more than 14" units per week, but in the 2000s this was reduced to the current "men no more than 14, women no more than 7". According to Danish tabloid Ekstrabladet in 2007 the Board of Health had imported the British recommendations without taking differences of units of alcohol into account. While it is a tabloid, the story is credited to Danish news agency Ritzau. Furthermore, the origin of the error is confirmed by quoting Professor, dr.med. and specialist in alcohol research Morten Grønbæk at the Danish National Institute of Public Health (Statens Institut for Folkesundhed).
 * Mojowiha (talk) 16:09, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Can anyone explain the following image? How do the sizes of units in the UK and ROI differ?

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t35.0-12/14075064_10155245266534552_670470602_o.jpg?oh=dd97ea3fdfc86e1f830942eddcb7058f&oe=57BAE11B — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adam282 (talk • contribs) 03:35, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Limits
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-7011216,00.html cites the "per week" limits, while claiming the were arbitrary. How does this relate to the daily limits,etc.? Isthis a typical Guardian goof? 68.45.226.99 12:15, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

chart
There's a neat chart on commons showing units of alcohol by size of glass and strength of drink.







It might fit nicely towards the end of the article, with some sources showing how people aren't aware how many units are in glasses of wine? Dan Beale-Cocks 12:59, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Rename this page!
This is a good article, but totally UK-centric. In Australia, for instance, a 'standard drink' is designated as 10 g ethanol, and alcohol containers are labelled with 'contains n standard drinks'. The page should be renamed to UK_unit_of_alcohol Adamtester (talk) 03:34, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Re-writing history
The lobbyists have slipped through an important change. The 'unit' has been re-defined as 10 millilitres (ml) of ethanol instead of the original 10 grammes (g). The previous definition persists in Australia. The ratio is, of course the density of alcohol (about 0.8 kg/l = 0.8 g/ml), thus the new definition is 'tighter'. Check the pre-1990 (pre-2000?) literature. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.111.64.45 (talk) 20:36, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Evidence for 1 Unit per hour?
Added a, since I've been unable to find any journalled evidence to the well known 1unit/hour metabolism in an average adult. Any ideas people?


 * The simple answer is this is a myth. It is based on the recommended delay before driving an automobile (1 hour per unit over the legal limit). The average healthy adult can metabolise alcohol at a higher rate, but the rate depends on the amount of alcohol consumed and the size of the person's liver.


 * The rate at which a human liver can metabolise alcohol varies greatly between individuals and decreases when other toxins are present. The rate at which a healthy liver can metabolise alcohol is approximately proportional to the weight of the liver, which is approximately proportional to the individual's lean mass (BMI of 20). People who habitually consume alcohol in moderation have a higher rate of alcohol metabolism than either heavy drinkers or those who rarely consume alcohol.


 * One misunderstanding is that the liver does not metabolise a toxin (such as alcohol) at a constant rate. Up to a limit, the liver metabolises alcohol faster when the blood concentration of alcohol is higher. Biologists refer to the pharmacokinetic half-life of a toxin. This is the time for half of the toxin to be metabolised, when the amount of the toxin is below twice the maximum metabolism per hour.


 * For example, if a person consumes 40 grams (5 units) of alcohol and the person's liver can metabolise 20 grams of alcohol per hour, only about half of the alcohol will be metabolised after 1 hour, about 10 grams will remain after 2 hours, and about 5 grams after 3 hours.


 * If the same person consumes 160 grams of alcohol, the liver will metabolise at the maximum rate for 6 hours. At this time the amount of alcohol in the blood is 40 grams, or twice the maximum hourly metabolism. The liver then slows down as described in the previous paragraph. Drbits (talk) 07:40, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Quantaties (Beers)
Just a small niggle I have with this section is that the Strong beers bullet says that half a pint of strong beer (which it puts at 6%-12%) can be 'as much as 2 units'. However, half a pint of 12% would be around 3 units. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.210.55 (talk) 00:08, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Note one is wrong and has error
"^ Event though the sizes of wine glasses are defined in UK law, the terms "large", "medium", "standard" etc are not defined in law." -- there is a typo in "even". Are the sizes of wine glasses defined in UK law? What does that mean? I can buy wine glasses in various sizes. Does it mean glasses of wine? Or what? Is there any cite for the "sizes of wine glasses defined in law" comment? I have no idea how to edit that. Visual Editor is really confusing. 149.254.49.84 (talk) 20:24, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

text under image of wine glass
The text says "175 ml, as shown here" except there's nothing to say how big the glass is, or how much wine is in it. The text under that image, describing the image, is pure fiction. It might be accurate, but that's not the point. WP is about verifiable facts, and so that text should really be changed until we can get some confirmation of how big the glass is and how much wine is in it. 149.254.49.84 (talk) 20:26, 24 July 2013 (UTC)

"independent of both the strength and amount" is confusing.
This section "In contrast to the system of "standard drinks" used in other countries, the UK unit of alcohol is independent of both the strength (% alcohol by volume (ABV)) and amount (volume) of any individual alcoholic beverage." is confusing. The number of units in a drink is given by multiplying the strength (the ABV value) by the serving size (in litres). Thus, for the glass of wine example image we have 12 (ABV) * 0.175 (litres, serving size) = 2.1 units. So the number of units is not independent from either the ABV or the serving size. I'll change this in a week if no-one objects. 81.140.13.150 (talk) 16:23, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

The formula section is horribly complicated, and leads to errors.
Working out the units is far easier than this section makes it appear.

You take the serving size in milliliters and multiply that by the ABV value, and then divide by 1000. Or you take the serving size in litres and multiply that by the ABV value.

A 275 ml glass of wine at 12% contains:

Either: 0.275 * 12 = 3.3 units

Or: 275 * 12 = 3300 / 1000 = 3.3 unit

A 0.75 litre bottle of wine at 14% contains;

0.75 * 14 = 10.5 units

Here's a source for this information: http://lx.iriss.org.uk/sites/default/files/resources/Alcohol%20Units%20a%20brief%20guide.pdf

The math formula editor is incomprehensible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DanBCDanBC (talk • contribs) 12:11, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

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Saving units for the weekend not clearly binge drinking.
This article (as at 2019-01-19) describes "saving up units and using them at the end of the week" as "a phenomenon referred to as binge drinking"; while this could be done as a form of clear binge drinking, the same formulation describes someone who drinks relatively slowly at the weekend and not during the week. Given a weekly limit of 210 ml (male) / 140 ml (female), this, spread over 3 days (Fri/Sat/Sun), amounts to 70 ml (male) / 47 ml (female) per day. Since Binge_drinking gives various definitions without consensus, such as drinking like this satisfies the UK but not the other cited definitions. I suggest that the phrase "a phenomenon referred to as binge drinking" is misleading, and should be removed or reformulated; since it does not add a great deal, removal may be better. PJTraill (talk) 22:19, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
 * US: 90 ml (male) / 70 ml (female) in two hours (or: sufficient to produce a BAC of .08 g/100 ml)
 * UK: 60 ml (male) / 40 ml (female) in a day
 * Australia: 90 ml (male) / 70 ml (female) in a day
 * (colloquially) drinking enough fast enough to get "intoxicated" (significantly or even severely, I should say)


 * I think this may be the document needed for the citation http://www.ias.org.uk/uploads/pdf/Consumption%20docs/dh_4084702.pdf VFLearner (talk) 16:13, 9 February 2020 (UTC)