Talk:United States Army Air Service

WW I Victory Credits
Ref. 34 says USAF Historical Study 133 changed full credits to partial. Not true. Several years ago the author, Maurer Maurer, wrote to me that he was surprised that there was so much confusion over the study. He said it did not change credits. Of course the study had columns labelled "credits" that were full of decimals, so it could have been expected.

On p. 2 of the study it says "--records 1513 credits for the destruction of 832 enemy aircraft--." On p. 3, under Type of all places, it says "The total number of credits awarded to any person is found by adding the airplanes and balloons for that person." Page 177 also makes it clear that full credits were used.

The Foreword to Aerial Victory Credits on the website of The Air Force Historical Research Agency, which published Study 133, (afhra.af.mil) says "Air Force Historians have kept official records of their services aerial vivtory credits since 1957." The credits listed on the site are all whole numbers.

Someone more experienced than me (Reedmalloy?) should correct the entry.

--Bobby Jim (talk) 19:08, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanx. let me look into it a little first before I adjust.--Reedmalloy (talk) 21:59, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Thank you! I grew up in Dayton and graduated from OSU long ago.

--Bobby Jim (talk) 17:07, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

I just received an e-mail from Daniel L. Haulman, Ph. D. Chief, Organizational Histories Branch, Air Force Historical Research Agency. In part, he wrote "The Study (#133) did not change the aerial victory credits that were awarded, but reduced them to fractions to account for the number of airplanes that were shot down. That is unfortunate, despite study 133's explanation, because many of those who have consulted the study have assumed that the pilots earned fewer credits than they actually did."

--Bobby Jim (talk) 17:26, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Army of Occupation
Just a correction on the Army of Occupation as it relates to the 4th Corps Observation Group. My grandfather was assigned to the 278th Observation Squadron. That squadron was transferred from the Second Army to the Third Army and deployed to Sinzig with the 4th Group, remaining there until it redeployed to the US and mustered out in June 1919. 67.181.72.173 (talk) 08:04, 23 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanx. I'll include it and check for references.--Reedmalloy (talk) 15:16, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Patrols along the Mexico – United States border from May to September, 1919
Why does this article say nothing about First Aero Squadron border patrols in 1919? The campaign was an interesting one, I think. Pilot Stacy Hinkle wrote two monographs about the conflict, published in cooperation with the University of Texas at El Paso, in 1967 and 1970. I have seen copies of these rare booklets at UC Berkeley, but they were not available for checking them out of Bancroft Library.
 * Hinkle, Stacy C. Wings and saddles: the Air and Cavalry Punitive Expedition of 1919. University of Texas at El Paso. Southwestern Studies, Volume V, No. 3, Monograph Number 19. Editor: Samuel D. Myres. Texas Western Press, 1967.
 * Hinkle, Stacy C. Wings Over the Border: The Army Air Service Armed Patrol of the United States – Mexico Border 1919–1921. University of Texas at El Paso. Southwestern Studies, Monograph Number 26. Texas Western Press, 1970.

The article about 1st Aero Squadron, located at 1st Reconnaissance Squadron, completely misses this assignment. The most published materials about the Punitive expedition concentrate on what happened in 1916, with nothing afterward. Border tensions flared up in 1919, and there should be something written about it.

Aerial Age weekly published in July 1919 a statement that two squadrons were assigned to the Mexican border.

In November 1919, after the border patrols, Benjamin Foulois stated that it would take six months to a year to equip the Air Service with up-to-date aircraft if a major expedition into Mexico were planned. There must be more references than these. Binksternet (talk) 19:47, 5 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I need to get on discussion pages more often. I completely missed this, and it's interesting material. Belatedly I will dig deeper and add.--Reedmalloy (talk) 22:15, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
 * There is nothing in its history to indicate that the 1st RS was one of the squadrons on the border. It was part of the army of occupation in Germany after WWI, which explains why nothing is noted in the article about Mexico. Misidentification of units is extremely common, however, and four squadrons were in Texas in the second half of 1919 and dispersed along the Mexican border, formed into the Army Surveillance Group in the 1919 reorganization.--Reedmalloy (talk) 10:24, 7 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Intriguing! Binksternet (talk) 12:06, 8 October 2010 (UTC)