Talk:United States Marine Corps Women's Reserve

Nickname?
Would it be appropriate to mention the un-official WW2/Korean era Female Marines Nickname? "BAMS" for Broad Assed Marines. Ah, the joy of a dad and uncles who were Marines! :-) --Purpleslog 23:11, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

It would absolutely NOT be appropriate! Your relatives notwithstanding, you should be made aware that the term "BAM" is an insulting, demeaning, sexist and derogatory term imposed on the women who served in the Marine Corps, by the men who felt we had no place in the Corps. It is not and has never been acceptable! As a Woman Marine vet myself (served in the late 70s/early80s), I definitely wouldn't appreciate seeing such slurs in what is supposed to be an encyclopedic article. It would be the same as seeing terms like the "N" word used in items about African Americans or words like f*ggot in articles about gays. In case you're unaware of the history and protocol, we Women Marines were not intended to have any sort of nickname, cutesy, derogatory or otherwise. Women Marines are MARINES, and should be referred to as such always. This was per the Commandant of the Marine Corps Gen. Thomas Holcomb who authorized the mobilization of women into the Corps. In a March 1944 issue of Life magazine, he announced, “They are Marines. They don't have a nickname and they don't need one. They get their basic training in a Marine atmosphere at a Marine post. They inherit the traditions of Marines. They are Marines.”  Ladycascadia (talk) 19:17, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Scope and title?
The article is titled United States Marine Corps Women's Reserve. But the information extends to the general history of women in the Marine Corps. I think the title should change, but I'm not sure what should be the new title. Maybe "Women in the U.S. Marine Corps"? Maurreen (talk) 21:53, 24 March 2010 (UTC)


 * The general information, especially after 1946, makes me think the article should be split, with some WWII material staying and the rest moving to Women in the United States Marine Corps. There is already an article entitled Women in the United States Navy, though it is poorly formatted. In the same vein, articles could be written about Women in the United States Coast Guard, Women in the United States Air Force and Women in the United States Army. There is no such article written (yet) for the US Army or Air Force. These articles could pick up where SPARS, Women Airforce Service Pilots, Women's Army Corps and Women in the Air Force (WAF) leave off. Another needed article is Women in the United States military. Binksternet (talk) 15:48, 25 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I did consider splittting it, but both articles would be pretty small, just a few paragraphs. Maurreen (talk) 15:52, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

Article improvement
Should anyone be watching this page, I hope to rework and expand the article (according to MOS), with the expectation of upgrading its Start-class rating. But first, some background: the title of the article is United States Marine Corps Women’s Reserve. Yet, the article describes two distinct subjects, women who served in the women’s reserve in WW II (by an act of Congress) and women who served in World War I (by edict of the Secretary of the Navy in 1917). Congress authorized the Women’s Reserve in 1942 during WW II; no such organization seemed to have existed prior to that time. Now, because the title is US Marine Corps Women’s Reserve, it follows that the subject matter or theme of the article would be about the women’s reserve during WW II. This question was put to the WT:MIL; responses seemed to favor splitting the article into two articles, which appears the most plausible course to follow. So, the text relative to WW I will be moved to the talk page, where it will be held and later used to start a new article. Pendright (talk) 20:13, 11 October 2016 (UTC)


 * World War I service
 * Faced with manpower shortages in 1918, Major General Commandant George Barnett asked the Secretary of the Navy's permission to enlist women for clerical duties.


 * On 13 August 1918, Opha May Johnson became the first woman to enlist in the Marines. 305 women entered the Marine Corps in 1918, taking over stateside clerical duties from battle-ready Marines needed overseas. The women were nicknamed Marinettes.
 * Pendright (talk) 01:26, 14 October 2016 (UTC)
 * For future reference:
 * Ebbert, Jean, and Marie-Beth Hall. The First, the Few, the Forgotten: Navy and Marine Corps Women in World War I (Naval Institute Press, 2002) Pendright (talk) 07:18, 2 November 2016 (UTC)

Roosevelt quote
Hi, thanks for checking my q-marked edit. I understand wording of direct quotes should not be altered. Actually, by coincidence, yesterday I undid an edit on another article where a well-meaning editor had changed "bloody" to "very" in a direct quote:) Just want you to know that I am very cautious and did indeed check the Stremlow source here and the 'as' was in Roosevelt's quote on page 40 as indicated. I also checked other sources to confirm and searches gave me this and this and this. I'm happy to leave this to you. Kind regards, JennyOz (talk) 14:48, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your gracious note, JennyOz. I only removed it since your edit summary seemed to indicate you were not sure. I appreciate your checking the sources, and it turns out you were right! I've undone my edit. – Corinne (talk) 15:10, 23 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks . I sometimes add a question mark in my edit summaries as I am anything but bold and hope primary editor/s will double check. In this case I thought that maybe a different edition of Stremlow's work may have omitted the word. All is good. This article was a delight to read - special thanks to  and yourself. Best wishes, JennyOz (talk) 16:02, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Pre-ACR read through
Hi, as discussed, I've had a read through. Most of my points are only suggestions so please ignore any you don't agree with. I look forward to watching the ACR which I'm sure will comfortably pass. Let me know if any of my notes need clarifying...

Lede
 * major and later was promoted to - 'was' not necessary
 * <> Removed

wlink to Major (United States)
 * sworn in with the rank of major - refine
 * <> Done


 * promoted to a full colonel - refine wlink to Colonel (United States)
 * <> Done


 * nicknames were used to describe the women - just the women or also the reserve itself
 * <> Changed the women to its members


 * military during WW II - no space in abbreviation ie should be WWII?
 * <> Done

apostrophe ie years'
 * two years of college
 * <> Done


 * two years of work experience - ditto
 * <> Done


 * two years of high school - ditto
 * <> Done


 * across the continental United States - is 'the' normal?
 * <> I believe it is! As you know, according to Hoyle, the language has two articles, the definite article (the) and the indefinite article (a & an). The (definite article) is used to refer to specific or particular nouns, the case in point, a & an (indefinite article) used for non-specific or non-particular nouns. Or, did I miss the point?
 * I think it's just a usage thing. Eg, I'm used to hearing "flying to continental Europe" or "to the continent", or, down here, "across mainland Australia" or "across the mainland". No problems, all make sense! :)
 * <> Okay! I should add that not everyone embraces the idea, but it makes sense to me.


 * including New York, Chicago, Parris Island, South Carolina, and El Centro and San Diego, California. - states for only some? It reads as if NY and Chicago are in South Carolina. Maybe pipe away the South Carolina and California? Or add other states?
 * including New York, Chicago, Parris Island - including 'in' or 'at'?
 * <>Added state and at


 * with some degree of resentment and crude language - by whom, other marines? Surely not public?
 * <> Added by whom


 * competence, self-assurance, and pride and soon won - move last comma to after pride?
 * had been opposed to having women serve in the Marine Corps in the beginning - I would put 'initially opposed' or 'had been opposed from the beginning' rather than 'in the beginning' at end of sentence
 * <> Both done

Background
 * The Corps delayed formation of the WR - insert Marine before Corps
 * <> Done


 * was commissioned a captain. Lentz - refine captain wlink
 * <> Done


 * and attended Bryn Mawr College for two years - wlink
 * <> Done


 * 20 years of active civic work - years'
 * <> Both done


 * director of the WAVES, Women Accepted for Volunteer Emergency Services. - move acronym to end in brackets ie (WAVES)?
 * <> Done


 * In the Free a Marine to Fight publication - if a pubn should be italics?
 * <> Publication is my word, because there was no other description I could find. One website that has it available, calls it a pamphlet. The dictionary describes a pamphlet as “a small booklet or leaflet containing information or argument on a single subject.” And is the case here. It has 41 page of text on 8 x 12 sheets of paper.  The short answer is I don’t know, but since the question seems open to argument – it should stand as is.


 * all qualities she demonstrated - can be ambiguous, is it confirming what Stremlow is saying about Streeter or is it saying qualities she herself (Stremlow) had?
 * <> It is, removed


 * In 1940, she believed the United States - swap she for Streeter
 * <> Done


 * earned a commercial pilots license. - pilot's
 * <> Done


 * Ruth Cheney Streeter died - should be just Streeter
 * <> Done

Recruiting
 * height not less than 60 inches; - add conversion template to cm
 * <> Done


 * weight not less than 95 pounds - add conversion template to kg
 * <> Done


 * at least two years of high school - apostrophe ie years'
 * two years of college - ditto
 * two years of work experience - ditto
 * <> Done, all three


 * Later, the wives of enlisted marines - this is the only mention of marines without a capital M
 * <> Done


 * Nemacolm, Pennsylvania - should be Nemacolin and wlink
 * <> Done, sp & link


 * Lucile E. McClarren - add date?
 * <> Done


 * WR was Minnie Spotted-Wolf - add in july 1943?
 * <> Done


 * strong drawing card - drawcard?
 * <> In our venacuar, drawing card is spot on


 * fashioned by the WAC, Waves, or SPARS - wlink WAC or should be WAAC per Lentz? Make Waves all caps
 * <> Corrected spelling and linked WAC. The WAAC was changed to WAC by the congress in May 1943, so WAC should stand.


 * Jane Tailor's - Taylor's
 * <> Done


 * Johnstown, Fayette County, Pennsylvania; - are there 2 Johnstowns in Penn or possibly Stremlow has the County wrong ie Johnstown, Pennsylvania?
 * <> Johnstown is correct, it's a city in PA and Fayette a County in PA. Johnstown is not in Fayette County. They were separated by a comma, now an and - both now linked.


 * Captain Charlotte D. Gower; - wlink if this woman Charlotte Gower Chapman?
 * <> It's a match, nice work!


 * six months of service - months'
 * <> Done

Uniforms
 * a Khaki trench coat - khaki ie no capital needed
 * <> Done


 * chevrons were green, and emblems were bronze - maybe remove the 2 'were'
 * <> Done


 * the gloves were white, and the handbags were light green - maybe remove the 2 'were'
 * <> Done


 * may be good to link some terms eg chevrons, khaki, muffler, rubbers (Wellington boot?), seersucker, palm-beach material (is that a colour or a fabric?), pumps
 * <> Done - definition of palm beach material to follow!
 * <> A description of the term palm-beach material or cloth does not seem to exist, whether searching on Wikipedia or Google.
 * If you are not aware, Palm Beach is a city in south Florida, known for its tropical weather.
 * From experience, I know the term – palm beach - is often used to mean clothing of lightweight material that is worn in a warm climate. I replaced palm-beach with ‘a similar'.
 * Yeah I figured it'd be casual lightweight beachwear resort wear etc (functional for the climate like the cool loose Hawaiian shirts). I was curious if it was a colour named after the sand at PB but I couldn't find it on Google either.
 * Okay! Pendright (talk) 01:55, 11 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Neither officers nor enlisted members had dress uniforms. - insert 'winter' before dress for emphasis (seeing there were dress uniforms for summer)
 * <> Done

> <> Done
 * short sleeve, matching shirt - short-sleeved? (to be consistent with 'One was a short-sleeved blouse' above)
 * long-sleeve jacket - as above
 * <> Done


 * peanut suit, so called because of its colored appearance. - just 'so called because of its color'?
 * <> done
 * "wore the peanut suit, just so-called because of its colored appearance" - Whoops, I didn't mean to add 'just'. I meant "wore the peanut suit, so-called because of its color
 * USMCWR in ACR status now - reviewer did not like so-called, so it is now so named. Yes! Pendright (talk) 01:55, 11 July 2018 (UTC)


 * A-lined skirt - just A-line ie no
 * <> Done

Training
 * Smith College in Northampton - wlink?
 * <> Done


 * combat; use of mortars; bazookas; flame-throwers; an assortment of guns; and landing craft - i think these should just be commas if all only demonstrations
 * <> Done

Assignments
 * 6 as unaccounted for - remove 'as'? and maybe should be spelled ie six?
 * <> Done

Accidents
 * died when the automobile they were riding in was demolished by - died when their automobile was hit by
 * <> Done


 * Laville was posthumous cited - posthumously (or as that US usage?)
 * <> Done

Demobilization
 * The task of demobilization fell to - maybe start this sentence with "At the end of the war,...
 * <> Done

Captions
 * top pic, A Marine Corps Wmen's Reserve recruiting poster during World War II - typo Women's
 * <> Done


 * Ruth Cheney Streeter pic, Marine Corps Woman's Reserve during World War II - typo Women's
 * <> Done


 * Three Native American... Minnie Spotted Wolf - last name should be hyphenated
 * <> Hyphen not required
 * Ah, I suggested hyphen to be consistent with what you have in prose ie "was Minnie Spotted-Wolf of Heart Butte, Montana".
 * Sorry, added - Pendright (talk) 01:55, 11 July 2018 (UTC)


 * Private First Class Pricilla Goodrich (left) and Private Elaine Munisinger - typos Priscilla and Munsinger
 * <> Done

Bibliography
 * National Archives ... Archives Tust Fund Board - Trust?
 * <> "Published for the National Archives and Records Administration, by the National Archives Trust Fund Board" ?
 * Sorry, I was alluding to the missing 'R' ie Tust --> Trust
 * Oh! - Pendright (talk) 01:21, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

Refs spaces to remove
 * enlisted women. [25]
 * remainder of World War II. [36]
 * other crude references.[39] [40]
 * <> Corrected, I think?
 * just meant to remove spaces before [25] and [36] and the one between [39] and [40].
 * Okay - Pendright (talk) 01:03, 11 July 2018 (UTC)

That's it. This isn't an actual review so pls don't feel need to reply to each comment. Thanks for such a fine, interesting and educative article! Best wishes, JennyOz (talk) 13:02, 6 June 2018 (UTC)
 * It has taken me more time than I had thought to answer all of your comments but, hopefully, I have. Thanks for an objective, thorough, and instructive (not actually a) review. If this wasn’t an actual review, then I shudder to picture what an actual one might look like. I hope, one day, I’ll have the opportunity to return the favor. In the meantime, be well and stay in touch. Wait, one more favor to ask!  You’ve worked over this article as well as that of the WAVES, which, in your opinion, is a cut above the other?  If you choose to decline, it’s no problem. Again, thank you. Pendright (talk) 01:49, 13 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Two I missed earlier...
 * Two I missed earlier...


 * heading Accidents - no doubt there were many other accidents, machinery injuries etc. Do you think this heading should be "Fatal accidents" or even "Fatalities"? Reviewers might have an opinion.
 * Fatal is apt here - Pendright (talk) 00:34, 11 July 2018 (UTC)


 * caption Mount Holyoke - needs capital W for women's
 * Fixed - Pendright (talk) 01:03, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * I have also added few last tiny replies above to clarify my too brief initial comments.
 * I've responded to each Pendright (talk) 04:40, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for those. I'm heading to review now. JennyOz (talk) 11:55, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Hmm..., as for which is better? I have a soft spot for this one because I 'met' Corinne here. I was looking forward to working with her. On the other hand I reckon the WAVES acronym is 'fun'. As for content etc, I'll have a think when this one is out of my head. But I will say I think both are excellent. (And they are both a cut above millions of others - way, way above!) I'm continually in awe with the comprehensive, well-written articles you and others produce. One day I'll try writing more but in meantime I enjoy helping where I can. As long as it's more a help than hindrance:) Have a wonderful weekend. Best wishes, JennyOz (talk) 03:08, 15 June 2018 (UTC)

Change date format to American
As per Wikipedia guidelines, the date format should be changed to American for this article about the U.S. Military. Why is this being reverted? Stappitalist (talk) 23:36, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
 * For most U.S. military articles on Wikipedia, the date format is DMY. However, there are military articles, particularly biographies, that do use a MDY format. The reason I reverted your edits is from MILFORMAT

If an article has evolved using predominantly one date format, this format should be used throughout the article, unless there are reasons for changing it based on strong national ties to the topic or consensus on the article's talk page. The date format chosen in the first major contribution in the early stages of an article (i.e., the first non-stub version) should continue to be used, unless there is reason to change it based on strong national ties to the topic or consensus on the article's talk page. Where an article has shown no clear sign of which format is used, the first person to insert a date is equivalent to "the first major contributor".
 * You are not the first major contributor. That being the case, I reverted your edits. Please check other U.S. related military topics. You will find an abundance of articles that use the DMY format. For instance: United States Marine Corps, USS Enterprise (CVN-65), or 1st Infantry Division (United States). Cuprum17 (talk) 00:03, 26 May 2024 (UTC)