Talk:United States gravity control propulsion initiative

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Welcome Tcisco 04:25, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Does it really exist?
I have never heard of a program known as the United States Gravity Control Propulsion Initiative, and this article does not cite any evidence to support the existence of such a program. This article seems to be based on original research and is not NPOV. Searches of google and the journal literature show no hits for this topic other than those copied from this article. How can we fix these problems and salvage the article? Or should it be deleted? Diderot08 (talk) 16:26, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The United States gravity control propulsion initiative is a phrase describing a collection of projects. Various writers refer to the series of activities discriptively without the use of proper nouns - they simply called them projects.  One popular writer referred to them as the G-projects.  I have modified the article to cite it as a phrase. Tcisco (talk) 19:11, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * To call something an initiative implies that it is a project or a program, not a collection (collected by who?) of uncoordinated projects. If various writers refer to the projects as an initiative then please cite those authors as a source.  The sources you do cite do not use this term. I am reverting the warnings that you removed, I think they are legitimate. Diderot08 (talk) 02:39, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The writers described the collection as projects. They indicated the research was funded, coordinated, and classified (see Cleaver, Weyl, Keyhoe, Stine, Talbert and reports by Aviation Studies International and Gravity Rand).  This is not original research.  The numerous tertiary works stated those projects possessed the high level urgency and importance of a major military project.    Neither the names of the projects nor the names of coordinators have been cited in declassified literature. I am open to suggestions for changes in title of the article.Tcisco (talk) 02:57, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The amount of literature about the gravity propulsion research, started in the early 1950s, is significant (see the footnotes). Books by Cook and Greer have described the nature of the aerospace gravity control propulsion projects.  I did not want to include lengthy quotations in the article, but the following is from A. V., Cleaver (1957, pp. 84-85):


 * What are the facts, insofar as they are publicly known, or (as at this date) knowable? Well, they seem to amount to this: The Americans have decided to look into the old science-fictional dream of gravity control, or “anti-gravity,” to investigate, both theoretically and (if possible) practically the fundamental nature of gravitational fields and their relationship to electromagnetic and other phenomena – and someone (unknown to the present writer) has apparently decided to call all this study by the high-sounding name of “electro-gravitics.”  Unknown, too – at least unannounced – is the name of agency or individual who decided to encourage, stimulate, or sponsor this effort, also in just what way it is being done.  However, that the effort is in progress there can be little doubt, and, of course, it is entirely to be welcomed.”


 * Cleaver's lengthy article, like others, listed the names of aerospace companies that had publicy declared the antigravity research. Other authors from this period published similar reports.  They indicated coordination and compared it with the Manhatten Project.  To minimize the length of the title of this article, I selected the word initiative.  It represented the extensive nature of the projects.  It had much larger support than the NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Project.  This article is not original research - it stems from reports published by cited, reliable sources.  The tags should be removed.Tcisco (talk) 05:10, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Examples of "initiatives" are the Strategic Defense Initiative or the National Nanotechnology Initiative but you don't cite any evidence to support the existence of a US Gravity Control Propulsion Initiative. You can't just use the term "initiative" to refer to a collection of uncoordinated projects. The article states "Mainstream newspapers, popular magazines, technical journals, and declassified papers reported the existence of the gravity control propulsion initiative." but it does not cite any sources to support this statement. Shouldn't this article be merged into the Antigravity article? Diderot08 (talk) 16:58, 4 September 2008 (UTC)


 * The name can be changed to exclude the word initiative. Antigravity editors had recommended the creation of this article (see the September 27, 2007 Discussion section of Antigravity).  The reference to the literature can be corrected.  I will try to re-word the article and redirect it to eliminate initiative from the title during the weekend.Tcisco (talk) 19:28, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * This article should be removed because it has been replaced by its redirected version. Tcisco (talk) 18:19, 16 October 2008 (UTC)