Talk:United States invasion of Afghanistan

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20021118162327/http://www.papillonsartpalace.com:80/massacre.htm to http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/massacre.htm
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External links modified
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I have just added archive links to 6 one external links on United States invasion of Afghanistan. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081102042606/http://www.hrw.org:80/reports98/afghan/Afrepor0-01.htm to http://www.hrw.org/reports98/afghan/Afrepor0-01.htm#P81_13959
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080311055230/http://archives.cnn.com:80/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/09/17/afghan.pakistan.0500/index.html to http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/central/09/17/afghan.pakistan.0500/index.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130525104632/http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,188521,00.html to http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,188521,00.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070930100844/http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1001390-1,00.html to http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1001390-1,00.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20071107053501/http://archives.cnn.com:80/2002/US/03/08/ret.war.facts/index.html to http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/03/08/ret.war.facts/index.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090825115134/http://www.centcom.mil/en/countries/coalition/canada/ to http://www.centcom.mil/en/countries/coalition/canada/

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External links modified
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Is "Invasion" really the right word?
It seems to me that "Invasion" is being used a bit liberally and incorrectly several places in this article, but especially the title. The initial strikes on the Taliban were done by U.S. Army Special Forces units, in small numbers. That would not qualify as an invasion. After that, the U.S. partnered with the Afghanistan government and NATO forces to combat the Taliban. "Invasion" would be more accurate if the U.S. were fighting against Afghanistan itself, instead of allying with it.

It seems to me that by the definition of "invasion", two things are required: 1) a large force, and 2) being "unwelcome".
 * Wiktionary definition of "invasion"
 * Dictionary.com definition of "invasion"
 * Oxford Dictionary definition of "invasion"
 * Merriam-Webster Dictionary definition of "invasion"

The referenced sources don't seem to support the use of "invasion" either. Perhaps my definition is a bit stricter, from being in the military.

Thoughts? Agree/Disagree?

- Hannibal Smith   ❯❯❯  07:01, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Many sources refer to the event as an invasion: Afghanistan: 16 years, thousands dead and no clear end in sight - CNN ("The United States first invaded Afghanistan on October 7, 2001, as part of Operation Enduring Freedom."), The Top 10 Mistakes Made in the Afghan War – Foreign Policy ("The United States invaded Afghanistan for one reason: to get Osama bin Laden and as many of his followers as possible."), Afghanistan profile - Timeline - BBC News ("US-led invasion"), WHY DID THE UNITED STATES INVADE AFGHANISTAN?, etc --177.138.183.96 (talk) 15:50, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
 * The Taliban was the government of Afghanistan at the time of the invasion. 2601:644:1:B7CB:5802:C4A6:C2C7:1815 (talk) 03:23, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150302014738/http://www.cfr.org/afghanistan/us-war-afghanistan/p20018 to http://www.cfr.org/afghanistan/us-war-afghanistan/p20018
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060927101915/http://www.cfr.org/publication/10551/ to http://www.cfr.org/publication/10551/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121007043712/http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/episodes/inside-the-taliban/ to http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/episodes/inside-the-taliban/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061001031543/http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/go0610.pdf to http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/go0610.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061001031543/http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/go0610.pdf to http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/go0610.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090115064058/http://www.army.mil/professionalwriting/volumes/volume2/october_2004/10_04_1.html to http://www.army.mil/professionalWriting/volumes/volume2/october_2004/10_04_1.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20040610170428/http://www.why-war.com/news/2003/10/29/alqaidam.html to http://www.why-war.com/news/2003/10/29/alqaidam.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080225062850/http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/isaf.cfm to http://www.cdi.org/terrorism/isaf.cfm

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External links modified (January 2018)
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Afghanistan WikiProject
This articles states it is in the WikiProject United States. Why is it not also in the WikiProject Afghanistan? Could someone add this article to the WikiProject Afghanistan? Stunts1990 (talk) 14:25, 25 October 2020 (UTC)

Taliban did not control 90% of the country by 2001
By most accounts at the time the Taliban controlled 75% or less of Afghanistan. Your own map on the right illustrates not only less than 90%, but ongoing fighting with the Northern Alliance in most of the northern half of the country. This is not "control."
 * I believe that the 90% figure is correct for 2001, as by then the Northern Alliance had been hemorrhaging territory for several years. Do you have any sources to the contrary?TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 19:50, 25 September 2021 (UTC)

Germany
Germany also send troops (KSK) to invade Afghanistan. They are fight in Tora Bora in December 2001 and they had operations in the near of Pakistan. SoldatAnthony (talk) 23:19, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Is Leigh Neville a reliable source?
The article contains a lot of references to this book: I can't find any reviews of this book online, and Neville doesn't seem very qualified as a historian (publisher bio). I've found what I think are two errors in the book so far. Neville says that the first CIA team had 8 people, every other source says 10 (7 field agents and 3 helicopter crew). And Neville says that there was a heavy firefight on Objective Gecko with 30 "insurgents" killed. Other sources say there were no enemy on Gecko. Unless anyone objects, I'll probably start replacing the Neville book with other sources. --Cerebellum (talk) 14:26, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I ended up keeping some citations to this book, it's widely used within Wikipedia so I don't it's appropriate for me as one editor to decide it's not good enough. As for the firefight on Gecko, General Franks said the same thing, maybe Neville was relying on his account. --Cerebellum (talk) 11:37, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't know whether that author is a reliable source or if there were 30 Taliban KIA, but there was a firefight and several Delta soldiers were wounded. I don't know to what extent the real story ever came out because there was a lot of propaganda from both sides.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by MyIP19216811 (talk • contribs) 03:54, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 10 July 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. There appears to be a consensus to keep the article at its current title. (closed by non-admin page mover)  The Night Watch     (talk)   03:02, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

United States invasion of Afghanistan → 2001 invasion of Afghanistan – Just like in the 2003 invasion of Iraq, not only the U.S. invaded Afghanistan, but other countries as well. Doesn’t matter if U.S. was the leader of the invasion, because it was also the leader of the 2003 invasion of Iraq. WikipedianRevolutionary (talk) 12:58, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Note. War in Afghanistan (2001–2021) is a separate article. Dekimasu よ! 14:09, 10 July 2023 (UTC)


 * Oppose: Two wrongs dont make a right
 * So far in history, there has been only 1 American invasion war each for Afghanistan & Iraq. Therefore, the issue of dates do not arise as of yet.
 * The proposed title goes against WP:PRECISE, and leaves the reader with impression that invasion came out of nowhere and obscure the identity of the invading power. It's like saying Russian invasion of Ukraine should be titled as "2022 invasion of Ukraine".
 * An efficient, neutral and precise title mentions both the invading side and the invaded. Shadowwarrior8 (talk) 14:12, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Also, Ukraine has only been invaded by Russia, which is why it keeps it's current name! WikipedianRevolutionary (talk) 14:44, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose Per WP:PRECISE and WP:CRITERIA. The article is specifically about the invasion, not the whole war. And the invasion was primarily a US venture primarily carried out by the US to achieve US goals (catching Osama bin Laden and bringing those responsible for the 9/11 attacks to justice.) Other countries only got seriously involved in the conflict from the year 2002 onwards. A title that clearly defines the identity of the invading power is the more natural, recognizable and precise title and the most consistent with similar articles. And I don't believe that minor contributions at this stage of the conflict by a small coalition of Anglosphere nations makes it any less of a US invasion considering that the primary stated goal of those countries was to "support their American allies and honoring their Article V NATO commitments." This changed later as the war dragged on and the goal shifted towards nation-building, but the invasion itself revolved around US short-term objectives. Fanatizka (talk) 17:50, 10 July 2023 (UTC)
 * However, the UK, Canada, Australia and the Northen Alliance, with the former 2 being NATO members, have also participated in the invasion, not only the rest of the war! WikipedianRevolutionary (talk) 14:43, 11 July 2023 (UTC)
 * The Northern Alliance were Afghans, so they of course did not "invade" Afghanistan anymore than the Syrian rebels "invaded" Syria. And yes as mentioned a few other countries did assist the US in its invasion (with all combat operations being carried out by the US) doesn't change the fact that it was a US invasion. The invasion was a knee-jerk reaction to the 9/11 attacks (an attack on US soil) and revolved completely around the US. It wasn't like Iraq where you had months of WMD accusations or a "coalition of the willing" and it was not initially the goal to turn Afghanistan into a democracy like was the case with Iraq. Fanatizka (talk) 16:01, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose. The invasion was U.S. led. The current title is fine. Rreagan007 (talk) 00:08, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Change in U.S. policy section
"At the time the only collaboration with Massoud was..." Seems like it should say "abortive attempt to track" or at least link to Berntsen's page as the op only lasted a week. MyIP19216811 (talk) 04:01, 28 January 2024 (UTC)

Should the result be changed after the 2021 developments?
The retreat of the United States' forces from Afghanistan and the toppling of its government by the Taliban in 2021 seem, to me, do indicate a Taliban victory. I get that this article refers to the invasion by the United States, not the War of Afghanistan itself, but since the fighting never really stopped and the Taliban accomplished its goals in the region, it seems weird to me to have the result denote an "American-led coalition Victory". MaquinaDeAnsiedade (talk) 16:16, 30 April 2024 (UTC)