Talk:United States military veteran suicide

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 January 2020 and 27 June 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Far out mate, Helen Pope, Bribrisweet. Peer reviewers: D3032447367, Millyphilip, Parouz, EstabanMiranda.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:34, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 September 2020 and 25 November 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Ewendelrice.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 04:34, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Untitled
This is very rudimentary-- more of a stub than an article. How about adding numbers phrased as a rate (suicides per thousand per year)? Michael-Zero (talk) 15:20, 25 December 2014 (UTC)
 * --So I added a tag saying this is a stub, but then I also added some more data and citations, so maybe it's not a stub anymore? Michael-Zero (talk) 16:44, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

That's good, but what is missing is the whole number. I see the 2012 individual total, but the 1999-2010 period is never summarized. It's broken down into suicides per 100,000 veterans, 22 per day, and even has the 1 suicide per 65 minutes statistic....but it never says how many suicides, total, from the Veteran's Affairs 1999-2010 study. Do I have to break out a calculator? Exactly what number did the study come up with?

Dan here adding a note about the numbers: the VA now says that its numbers have included active duty troops.

Stars and Stripes, June 21, 2018: VA Reveals its Veteran Suicide Statistic Included Active-Duty Troops

"The report shows the total is 20.6 suicides every day. Of those, 16.8 were veterans and 3.8 were active-duty servicemembers, guardsmen and reservists, the report states. That amounts to 6,132 veterans and 1,387 servicemembers who died by suicide in one year." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 100.4.155.80 (talk) 11:38, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Suicide in the military
The redirect currently points here, following a page move. I have nominated the redirect for discussion at Redirects for discussion/Log/2015 February 4. Thryduulf (talk) 12:33, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 11 February 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Unopposed. Malcolmxl5 (talk) 23:23, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

United States military veteran suicide epidemic → United States military veteran suicide – This isn't a literal epidemic. While this term has been used in sources, I suspect this has more to do with emotional appeal than the sort of accuracy we should strive for as an encyclopedia. WP:PRECISE, WP:CONCISE, and WP:NPOV apply; MOS:MED's requirements for careful language may also apply. --BDD (talk) 21:35, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Agree. Per WP:MOS, Capitalismojo (talk) 02:58, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Agree; extraordinary claims would require extraordinary evidence. Fgnievinski (talk) 14:41, 12 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Support. The proposal pretty much says all that needs to be said. Egsan Bacon (talk) 14:58, 12 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Need expanded 2000 to 2010 table and graphs
This is currently a reference for the small table:

Changes in Suicide Mortality for Veterans and Nonveterans by Gender and History of VHA Service Use, 2000–2010. By Claire A. Hoffmire, Ph.D., Janet E. Kemp, R.N., Ph.D., Robert M. Bossarte, Ph.D.. Published online: May 01, 2015. Psychiatric Services, Volume 66 Issue 9, September 01, 2015, pp. 959-965. .

It has some tables and graphs in the journal article. Maybe someone with more skill and time than me can create some tables and graphs that can be placed in the Wikipedia article. --Timeshifter (talk) 00:22, 9 September 2016 (UTC)

The multivariable cohort studies show no increase in suicide risk as a result of being a veteran or combat veteran
The studies that actually control for all the variables, and take into account more defined cohorts, and also take into account that during times of sustained warfare and consequent military expansion, find the real issue is that higher risk cohorts are more likely to be accepted into the military (person never employed, persons with extant sub clinical depression, and several other risk factors) during htose times and find no increase in suicide as a result of being a military veteran, or for that matter a combat veteran. There have been multiple peer reviewed studies in the UK on this, and when same methods are applied in the US we see the same phenomena: US and UK rates of military veteran suicide are actually highest among person who were never in combat, never deployed overseas, and who left the service early (indicating other pre existing psychological issues. Rate pf suicide among combat veterans and deployed veterans are actually lower than the identical civilian cohorts who never served.

In fact it is specifically the cohort that served 9 months or less that had an extremely elevated rate 2.5 times the background frequency of suicide and drives the entire amount above the civilian population

http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/2211891 http://www.militarytimes.com/pay-benefits/military-benefits/health-care/2015/04/01/study-no-link-between-combat-deployment-and-suicides/

In fact studies have shown that in the cohort 30-49 years of age military veterans are LESS likely to commit suicide than the general public controlled for gender.

http://www.gla.ac.uk/news/headline_525970_en.html http://www.forces.net/news/veterans-not-greater-risk-suicide http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-39898554

it is also increasingly well understood that access to firearms causes an artificial relative increase in reported suicides. We saw this in Australia where self caused death by non-firearms means associated with suicide, but ruled accidental, increased after large scale reduction in access to to firearms. That is why the recent peer reviewed work in Australia suggests that there was no reduction in overall suicide in Australia, but the introduction of a new systematic under-count with removal of firearms. This relative over-count of firearms suicide would introduce new over count specifically to US military veterans rates since they are a higher proportional gun owner cohort. (In short the new science out of Australia shows it is likely near 100% of gun suicides are properly categorized as suicide by medical examiners, and therefore accurate in national statistic reporting bodies and health authorities, while non gun suicides are likely counted accurately in less than 50% of the cases, causing an artificial relative over-count in reported suicide rates among persons with access to firearms.N34B2 (talk) 08:52, 25 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Please put all that in the article. --Timeshifter (talk) 22:09, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Updates to Background and Federal Budget
There is currently updated Background data available from Veterans Affairs (VA) National Veteran Suicide Prevention Annual Report. In addition, there as been new federal funding approved for suicide prevention outreach
 * Far out mate (talk) 05:25, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Article Evaluation for Class Assignment
I made a minor edit updating the wikipedia page's referral to a "recent" study to refer instead to the study's year of publication. The article is part of several WikiProjects including Death/Suicide, Medicine/Psychiatry and Military History, therefore this wikipedia page has some weight in its relevance to a greater community of knowledge and research. Upon reviewing the article page, the information in the article seems unbiased and focused on the subject of US military veteran suicide. However, it would be nice to update the article's information soon as much of the statistical evidence is from 2013/2014. I understand this might be impossible if new statistics have not been published. Some of the information in the article could be expanded upon. For example, the section on the federal budget for veteran mental health screening could have more information there rather than just a link to the federal page. Overall, a focused article reporting relevant information with good links to sources. --Helen Pope (talk) 06:13, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

Article Updates and Sources
I would like to add a more recent and robust set of budget data pertaining to VA mental health spending. In addition, I would like to bring more recent VA reports pertaining to veteran suicide to the page. There are also some contentious topics within veteran suicide statistics in the scope of the studies conducted, the groups included in the studies and the margin of error in the data. These are important to address, to give a better understanding of how these figures are gathered and their limitations. Finally, in recent years there has been some controversy regarding the VA's handling of the veteran suicide crisis in regards to use of funds and overall outreach, I would like to elaborate on these issues within the page.

My list of sources are listed below, please feel free to provide feedback on my overall goal and the sources I would like to utilize.

References:

Boswell, and Leonard L. “H.R.327 - 110th Congress (2007-2008): Joshua Omvig Veterans Suicide Prevention Act.” Congress.gov, 5 Nov. 2007, www.congress.gov/bill/110th-congress/house-bill/327.

“Executive Order on a National Roadmap to Empower Veterans and End Suicide.” The White House, The United States Government, www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/executive-order-national-roadmap-empower-veterans-end-suicide/.

III, Leo Shane. “Another Big Boost for VA Funding in Latest Federal Budget Deal.” Military Times, Military Times, 19 Dec. 2019, www.militarytimes.com/news/pentagon-congress/2019/12/19/another-big-boost-for-va-funding-in-latest-federal-budget-deal/.

III, Leo Shane. “VA Left Millions for Suicide Prevention Unspent, Report Finds.” Military Times, Military Times, 18 Dec. 2018, www.militarytimes.com/news/2018/12/18/va-left-suicide-prevention-funding-unspent-report-finds/.

Office of Public and Intergovernmental Affairs. “Veterans Affairs.” Go to VA.gov, 1 Sept. 2016, www.va.gov/opa/pressrel/pressrelease.cfm?id=2054.

Price, Jay. “The Number 22: Is There A 'False Narrative' For Vet Suicide?” NPR, NPR, 1 Oct. 2015, www.npr.org/2015/10/01/444999996/the-number-22-is-there-a-false-narrative-for-vet-suicide. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Far out mate (talk • contribs) 00:53, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

I would like to add some relevant information to this wikipedia article in the sections subheaded: causes, federal policy initiatives, and suggest an additional section on the VA's work specifically. Under causes I would add information from a recently published research book on Military Veteran psychiatric healthcare as it is related to suicide. I want to also elaborate on recent federal policy initiatives as the issue is discussed by the House of Representatives and reported in their House Hearing on Veteran and Active Duty Suicides in May 2019. I would like to relay the information in this hearing as it is pertinent to the budget and its effective or ineffective utilization in Washington. Finally, I would suggest a specific subheaded section for the VA to talk about the VA's role in suicide prevention for veterans, historically and currently. These are the references this information would be based off of, in order:

Ritchie, Elspeth Cameron, and Maria D. Llorente. Veteran Psychiatry in the US: Optimizing Clinical Outcomes. Springer, 2019.

United States. House of Representatives. Subcommittee on National Security. Hearing on Veteran and Active Duty Suicides (Part 1) May 8, 2019. 116th Congress. 1st session. Washington: GPO, 2019.

A Consensus Study Report of the National Academies of Science, Engineering, Medicine. Evaluation of the Department of Veterans Affairs Mental Health Services. National Academies Press, 2018. Helen Pope (talk) 07:51, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

Peer Evaluation
LEAD: The article lead is descriptive, concise and effective. One detail that your group may want to focus on is the slight discrepancy between the article's reported "20 veterans die from suicide per day" and your movement, #22ADay. Where does this difference come from?

CONTENT/ORGANIZATION: The article is organized well, using sections and subsections to partition information. Your group did a fantastic job expanding on the "Federal Policy Initiatives" subsection in your article's first draft. You have presented ideas in a chronological order, used respectful language by avoiding phrases such as "committed suicide", and utilized credible sources from government websites and organizations such as Military Times. The information you presented is relevant and helpful to the article as this section was incomplete before. For the next iteration of the draft, perhaps you can focus on adding more content to several other incomplete portions. Examples include adding to the "Federal budget" section, and adding a new section that provides an overview of the most prominent organizations, players and advocators helping ameliorate military veteran suicide.

TONE/BALANCE/NEUTRAL PERSPECTIVE: Although the article and your addition is generally objective and without bias, some wording could be altered to maintain a more neutral tone. In the article, phrases such as "one of the most important laws" and "most academic institutions" should be avoided as they imply uncertainty and bias. Looking at your first draft, phrases such as "fairly flexible" should be altered as the audience definition of "fair" differs from person to person.

SOURCES: Both the article and your first draft make use of excellent credible sources from governmental organizations and credible news sources and authors. To my knowledge, all of the links are functioning and recent. Fantastic job here!

MULTI-MEDIA: The article contains one picture in the lead section, which grabs the audience's focus and helps them visualize the topic of the article better. However, a caption could be added to the photo as it is currently missing. Consider adding other impactful photos including photos of prominent figures, organizations, and policies meant to address this issue.

CONCLUDING THOUGHTS: Overall, your proposed added section under "Federal Policy Initiatives" is very well done. It presents information in an objective, respectful, and chronological manners, and sheds more light on policies that are catered to this issue. The article itself can benefit from minor tone changes, content addition, and photo adjustment/addition. Excited for the next draft of your work!

Parouz (talk) 18:26, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

Repeated citation.
The following citation is repeated 3 times, as if it were three different sources.

"President Donald J. Trump Issues a National Call to Action to Empower Veterans and End the National Tragedy of Veteran Suicide" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dgk934 (talk • contribs) 08:46, 1 September 2020 (UTC)