Talk:Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica/Archive 1

Questionable
Looking at fora where this school is discussed, I found a lot of very argumentative stuff. It seems the school has a questionable status. Hopefully, some-one will be willing to wade through all the shouting on both sides and come up with a decent article.!!!!
 * Further to this topic, why does the website for a Costa Rican university have a .pl (Poland) country code? WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 14:46, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Actuallay the University runs many national programs outside Costa Rica So, you can find the University in the next sites

www.unem.cr UNEM www.unem.edu.pl UNEM www.unem.edu.uy UNEM www.unem.international UNEM www.unem.edu/internacional/ UNEM

Dubious fact
The article mentions that UNEM is listed in the IAU's Directory of Higher Education, but a search of the IAU's website does not list such a publication. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 15:35, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

You are Wrong Wikian61 http://www.whed.net/detail_institution.php?id=17738 The school its properly listed — Preceding unsigned comment added by Porscheclub (talk • contribs) 17:36, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

WHED Portal The Portal. The IAU WHED Portal (www.whed.net) is the International Association of Universities’ (IAU) latest reference tool on higher education systems, degrees and institutions around the world. Basic access allows all users to access the information contained in the portal...

IAU WHED UNESCO
 * The cited page does not have a title of Directory of Higher Education, and a search for such a title at the IAU site shows that no such title is found. A search for International Handbook of Universities leads to the WHED site, but we shouldn't list two titles when there is only on actual source. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 17:46, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

In the following link You State Further to this topic, why does the website for a Costa Rican university have a .pl (Poland) country code?

Actuallay the University runs many national programs outside Costa Rica So, you can find the University in the next sites

www.unem.cr UNEM www.unem.edu.pl UNEM www.unem.edu.uy UNEM www.unem.international UNEM www.unem.edu/internacional/ UNEM

Protected edit request on 16 December 2014
I see no reason why you block https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universidad_Empresarial_de_Costa_Rica Furthermore, no reason why in the infobox, you left a website that is not poniting the right place, as in WHED IAU (UNESCO Listing) http://www.whed.net/detail_institution.php?id=17738 Acording to the listing the website is www.unem.edu.pl Furthermore, I own the COPYRIGHT for UNEM and Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica. Please provide an email where I can send you propper documents info@unem.edu.pl This https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Universidad_Empresarial_de_Costa_Rica&oldid=638370397 Was the right article. Now It only damage University perception.

PolandMEC (talk) 01:16, 17 December 2014 (UTC) PolandMEC

I need an urgent action. The current article harms the institution, and all the alumni. Its not fair to be listed among bad institutions. Please get it fixed, since UNEM is in good standing, and you mention a wrong website — Preceding unsigned comment added by PolandMEC (talk • contribs) 09:48, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

Hi: I am as UNEM alumni, and the actual article harm deeply my CV I really do not understand why Wikipedia allow this behaviour, publishing controversial information, that may lead honest student to lost their job, because someone of you are playing to be God — Preceding unsigned comment added by 179.24.179.198 (talk) 18:58, 17 December 2014 (UTC)


 * ❌ No specific request has been made. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:21, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 17 December 2014
Hi: I am as UNEM alumni, and the actual article harm deeply my CV I really do not understand why Wikipedia allow this behaviour, publishing controversial information, that may lead honest student to lost their job, because someone of you are playing to be God179.24.179.198 (talk) 19:06, 17 December 2014 (UTC) Pablo Lopez Mena

179.24.179.198 (talk) 19:06, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * ❌ No specific request has been made. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:22, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 17 December 2014
Greeting from San Jose I am a proud student at UNEM The University actually is listed in UNESCO under www.unem.edu.pl If editors do not like a polish domain, you should use national domain, www.unem.cr Actually the article injury my background with no logical reason. Please fix it according to PolandMEC request and last edition.170.51.65.55 (talk) 19:10, 17 December 2014 (UTC)Juan Cruz

170.51.65.55 (talk) 19:10, 17 December 2014 (UTC)
 * ❌ The issue of which website actually represents the university is at the heart of the controversy which got this page protected in the first place. The requested edit facility is only to be used for non-controversial edits. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:24, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
 * A question for proud student Juan Cruz, : why does your message "from San Jose" actually come from Uruguay? Does it seem odd to you that that is the same place that honest student Pablo Lopez Mena,, also comes from? Or that much of the recent edit-warring in the article has been by Uruguayan IPs? Or that the copyright claimant on the irrelevant certificate posted on this page by is also a citizen of Uruguay? Do you know what we mean by SOCKPUPPETRY? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 17:02, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 21 December 2014
As it was already requested by a former Alumni from Hong Kong, I must reinforce the request to edit the content to the previous content, in adittion to the many request from alumni in Uruguay. The actual publication damage Institution, and students curriculo

PolandMEC (talk) 00:38, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
 * It is not the job of Wikipedia to maintain the reputation of this institution. If the reliable sources have information that is less than complimentary, than so be it. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 05:43, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 08:47, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

Edit request, no source or date
The next data was the right and accurate information, in the Wiki Article, until somoene with NO documents to support his claim, start editing. Finalley editor protected the article with the wrong information. I already supply Copyright certificate, link to UNESCO WHED IAU list, and everything I underline, and provide was ignored and dennied, meanwhile the other party has present NONE document or valid argument. I urge editor to restore the article, as follows:

Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica, also known as UNEM or Business University of Costa Rica, is a private university in the city of San José, Costa Rica. It is authorized and accredited by the Consejo Nacional de Enseñanza Superior Universitaria Privada, the national council of higher education of Costa Rica, to award undergraduate degrees in accounting and business administration, and master's degrees in business administration.

History
UNEM was founded in 1992 as an international graduate school, and was authorized and accredited under the present name in 1997. .

UNEM is registered at DMOZ DMOZ Listing

Edit-warring
Two editors, and, are waging an edit war here over the correct address for this "university". I suggest that as a compromise, in the absence of editor consensus, no web address for the institution should be shown in this article. It's clear that there is more than one party attempting to exploit the name of the institution, but not at all clear whether either of those parties has any authority to do so; indeed, it remains far from clear that this institution exists at all. According to Whois, the domain www.unem.edu is registered to Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica, Apartado 12640-1000, San Jose, COSTA RICA, while the domain unem.edu.pl is hosted in Scottsdale, Arizona, which as far as I know is neither in Costa Rica nor in Poland. I don't really care which, if either, of the two editors is right. I do intend to take this to WP:EWN if there's any more edit-warring. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:43, 16 December 2014 (UTC) I agree that menatime there is no clear definition of the accurate website none should be mentioned. I already offer prove I am the copyright holder for UNEM and Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica at the Copyright office in the library of the congress. Let me upload the file, or let me know where to send the docs info@unem.edu.pl — Preceding unsigned comment added by PolandMEC (talk • contribs) 21:05, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Request Edition for Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica
I already sent the email to either permissions-commons@wikimedia.org and permissions-en@wikimedia.org I also mentioned should be communicated to you https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Mike_V As mentioned Earlier I am the Copyright holder for UNEM and Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica To use the file in a wiki, copy this text into a page: To link to it in HTML, copy this URL: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Copyright_Universidad_Empresarial_de_Costa_Rica.jpg And the authorization for publish the logo To use the file in a wiki, copy this text into a page:

To link to it in HTML, copy this URL: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UNEM_logo_Universidad_Empresarial_de_Costa_Rica.jpg

I see no reason why you block https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universidad_Empresarial_de_Costa_Rica Furthermore, no reason why in the infobox, you left a website that is not poniting the right place, as in WHED IAU (UNESCO Listing) http://www.whed.net/detail_institution.php?id=17738 Acording to the listing the website is www.unem.edu.pl

Furthermore, I own the COPYRIGHT for UNEM and Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica. Please provide an email where I can send you propper documents info@unem.edu.pl I hereby strongly request that the article must mention my website www.unem.edu.pl or if you want a local domain www.unem.cr Please remove bad publicity ASAPPolandMEC (talk) 00:19, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
 * It's not clear what a copyright certificate has to do with the issue of which website actually represents this university. So the US Copyright Office issued a copyright for a work titled Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica (presumably the work covered is the actual website). That doesn't make it the legitimate website of the university; it only makes it a copyrighted artifact. This information has no bearing on the controversy at hand. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:29, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

What I am supposed to present if a Copyright certificate with 9 years old expedition, mentioning POLAND (Domain dot EDU DOT PL) meaning www.unem.edu.pl is NOT GOOD ENOUGHT for you??? Furthermore the published article is infamous and harm University reputation. So, what I ask is the article to be unprotected or editedPolandMEC (talk) 15:53, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 18 December 2014
What I am supposed to present if a Copyright certificate with 9 years old expedition, mentioning POLAND (Domain dot EDU DOT PL) meaning www.unem.edu.pl is NOT GOOD ENOUGHT for you??? Furthermore the published article in Wikipedia is infamous and harm University reputation. So, what I ask is the article to be unprotected or edited

PolandMEC (talk) 15:56, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Padlock-dash2.svg Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:04, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

I see no reason why been myself the only side (part) that is willing to provide documents, as the Copyright certificate, and mention the IAU WHED listing whed.net/detail_institution.php?id=17738 you are not willing to edit the page for Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica. Furthermore, the other part never provide a single argument. And I see no neutrallity but you protected the article keeping the edition made by UNEMCR. If you look the Article history, it always since the begining point to www.unem.edu.pl I must request that if you are not willing to edit, please earse the whole article, as it was before proposed to be deleted. What I am supposed to present if a Copyright certificate as the one I already presented https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Copyright_Universidad_Empresarial_de_Costa_Rica.jpg with 9 years old expedition, mentioning POLAND (Domain dot EDU DOT PL) meaning www.unem.edu.pl is NOT GOOD ENOUGHT for you??? Furthermore the published article is infamous and harm University reputation. So, what I ask is the article to be unprotected, edited or deleted ASAP PolandMEC (talk) 02:59, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

May be a diploma mill
The Costa Rica Star says it's a diploma mill: "The demand for more university degrees among Costa Rica’s workforce has resulted in institutions such as the infamous Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica (UNEM), which has been embroiled in a series of diploma mill scandals involving students that paid money for a degree that they did not earn through studies or academic competence. This is a school that has granted PhD degrees to professionals from the United States and Germany as well."   That's already in the article. Then there's the PhD thesis mentioned in the blog linked from that article, which attempts to list and categorize every institution of higher learning in Costa Rica. It has the statement "The Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica (UNEM) was founded in 1997 as a special-focus institution in business, and reported no graduates in 2007. These institutions have not been included in the study as neither enrolled new students in 2010; thus, these institutions have been classified as inactive" The thesis also lists the address and phone number of each institution. For UNEM, the info is "UNEM - Phone number: Información no disponible. Address: Del Colegio de Abogados, 200 Oeste, 100 Norte y 50 Oeste. Residencial Montealegre, casa 2213. Zapote (Estuvo en este lugar pero actualmente se desconoce su ubicación)" Those are walking directions from a bus stop to a house overlooking a park. John Nagle (talk) 04:04, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 18 December 2014
Greetings from South America I really feel terrible as an Alumni of this institution for the actual edition. It deeply harm students reputation. I may suggest that if there is non consensus, you set the website as www.unem.cr That is located in Costa Rica, as the University phisical address. Furthermore, I strongly suggest that the bad publicity with no solid ground should be removed. Thanks. Juan Perez — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.54.140.47 (talk) 22:32, 20 December 2014‎ (UTC)


 * Yellow check.svg Partly done: I've altered the website address. The other changes you suggest will require a consensus. Best — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 04:39, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
 * , I'm afraid you have been deceived. The IP address of "Juan Perez", like that of "Juan Cruz" and "Pablo Lopez Mena" above and many of those involved in the recent edit war here, geolocates to Montevideo, Uruguay, which coincidentally is where the copyright claimant on the certificate posted on this page by also comes from. It may not be entirely coincidence that the same person is the registered owner of unem.cr, and that his contact address is @unem.edu.pl. May I suggest that you either undo your edit, or remove the web address entirely, as I suggested higher up this page? If, as appears very likely, there is some kind of scam going on here, we should be careful not to be a party to it. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 11:41, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Oops - thanks for pointing that out. I've removed the website altogether until we can find out what's what. — Mr. Stradivarius  ♪ talk ♪ 12:42, 21 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Mr S. I don't know if you read German, but if so you might enjoy this article in Der Spiegel. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 14:17, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

IP Information to clarify Justlettersandnumber comment
For your information, Justlettersandnumber user mentioned you have been decived https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Universidad_Empresarial_de_Costa_Rica because he mentioned similar IP address, as for Montevideo Uruguay. Montevideo have 1,5 million citizens!! Also there is a local office for UNEM and a national website www.unem.edu.uy Over 300 students got their education at UNEM branch in Uruguay, so its unfair to mention IP address, since ALL citizens in Uruguay, over 3million people in all 19 states called DEPARTAMENTOS in spanish use the same IP address. Also Justlettersandnumbers user mention an old newspaper publication dated 2008 and for his information we are heading year 2015. I must underline, there are national branches in several countries, so as a student mentioned earlier, www.unem.cr is national based, mentime, www.unem.international is intended for worldwide users, and www.unem.edu.pl is where the first educational website was published and it reflects UNESCO whed listing.Furthermore Uruguay has its local website www.unem.edu.uy and also for your information in URUGUAY Universidad de la Republica UDELAR is the one that handles all dot EDU dot UY domains. I want o belive Justlettersandnumber user has no bad intentions, but only missinformationPolandMEC (talk) 03:56, 22 December 2014 (UTC)

Notable people
Hun Sen, the Cambodian prime minister, was made an "Honorary Professor of Diplomatic and International Relations" in July 2008.

Support Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica is a Good University
I am an alumni of Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica(UNEM), when I studying the degree from UNEM, I have pay much effort to meet the academic requirement of degree.

The University obviously had been approved and accredited by the Ministry of Education of Costa Rica (CONESUP): http://www.mep.go.cr/oficinas/direccion-ejecutiva-consejo-nacional-ensenanza-superior-universitaria-privada-conesup

And the article quoted reference from a doctoral dissertation:  to state that "The university reported no graduates in 2007, and enrolled no students in 2010; it may be inactive." Obviously the doctoral dissertation did not quote any reference to support his argument for that. it is just his own opinion!!!

And the arguement: "In 2013 it was described by the Costa Rica Star as "infamous" for its involvement in several diploma mill allegations, in cases where students paid to receive degrees without following a course of study." is only base on the "Costa Rica Star" that is just established on 2011 by a Canadian citizen living in Costa Rica! And the argument from "Costa Rica Star" did not have any supporting document to support their argument at all! It is not fair to base on the doctoral dissertation and "Costa Rica Star" own opinion to make argument for the bad description for UNEM. Actually I make much effort to study in the degree program from UNEM!

I strongly request Wikipedia to correct the article and remove the bad description about UNEM that from just the own opinion from a doctoral dissertation and new established paper "Costa Rica Star" without any supporting document for their argument!

Form an alumni of UNEM, F.C. Chan, Hong Kong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chan f.c. (talk • contribs) 14:51, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Fully agree with user Chan from Hong Kong. Hope nobody have issues with user IP Please restore the original article, before the edit war started, since was a neutral an accurate version.PolandMEC (talk) 22:29, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 21 December 2014
Based on WikiDan61 comment inside the talk page QUOTE "I can support accepting http://www.unem.edu.pl as the official website of this organization based on its publication in the sources listed." I request that the edition in the infobox should be make with www.unem.edu.pl as the University website.

PolandMEC (talk) 22:13, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Huon (talk) 20:21, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

Actually I could be better if the article is erased due to a conflict of interest


 * What, you want the page removed because you have a conflict of interest? That's not a valid reason for deletion. Huon (talk) 17:54, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 21 December 2014
Regarding the request for reliable sources to edit Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica Article on Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Universidad_Empresarial_de_Costa_Rica#Protected_edit_request_on_21_December_2014 This used to be the accurate information https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Universidad_Empresarial_de_Costa_Rica&oldid=638183616

Regarding Valid Sources
 * 1) The listing of the Ministry Of Education in Costa Rica (CONESUP) up to December 2014 (Number 38 in the listing) http://www.mep.go.cr/sites/default/files/pregunta_frecuente/documentos/lista_universidades_aprobadas_CONESUP.pdf
 * 2) UNESCO WHED (World higher Education Database) up to December 2014 where www.unem.edu.pl is the official website http://www.whed.net/detail_institution.php?id=17738
 * 3) DMOZ Listing where www.unem.edu.pl is the official website http://www.dmoz.org/search?q=unem
 * 4) http://www.unem.edu/ its a dead site changed for the local domain www.unem.cr
 * 5) Copyright certificate where POLAND is depicted as first country for the published website for UNIVERSIDAD EMPRESARIAL DE COSTA RICA https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Copyright_Universidad_Empresarial_de_Costa_Rica.jpg
 * 6) Unesco Centre www.unesco.vg listing Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica in good standing under Costa Rica list http://unesco.vg/Unesco_2011_List.pdf

So, a sensacionalist newspaper with information published on 2008 with no solid ground, cannot be used to damage University and students reputation.

PolandMEC (talk) 13:43, 30 December 2014 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. and please stop repeating yourself. There are plenty of similar requests further up this page, all of them denied. -- Red rose64 (talk) 14:46, 30 December 2014 (UTC)

I can support accepting http://www.unem.edu.pl as the official website of this organization based on its publication in the sources listed. I cannot support the removal of negative information about this organization just because people who support the organization ask for it. The organization's existence, even with listing in UNESCO WHED documents, is tenuous enough (given the limited licensure that has already been discussed at length) that I'd want to see significant coverage (not just listings, but an actual full-length, in-depth article) about this school countering the coverage we do have that describes the school as a rumor mill. We have a reliable source for that; we don't have a reliable source to refute it, so I can't support removing it. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 05:07, 31 December 2014 (UTC) Based on your comment "I can support accepting http://www.unem.edu.pl as the official website of this organization based on its publication in the sources listed." I request that you make the edition in the infobox. Thanks for your timePolandMEC (talk) 21:39, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry,, but I don't agree with you here; the Polish website is part of the content that User:PolandMEC and the various Uruguayan IPs have been warring to have included here. I again suggest that it be removed, as agreed with higher up this page, until and unless it becomes clear what the real situation is here. As I said before, if, as appears more than likely, there is some sort of attempted scam going on, it's important that we do not become a party to it. I should of course have drawn your attention to that previous agreement when you wrote your comment, not a month later. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 16:04, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * As indeed I should have brought it to the attention of . Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 16:07, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Actually, I was basing my information on the World Higher Education Database, a publication of UNESCO partner International Association of Universities. At the time of the discussion, the Poland-based site was listed as the official website of the organization. Now, the .edu domain is listed. So, clearly there is enough confusion over the issue to keep the information out of the article. I'll revert my addition. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 16:12, 2 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm with WikiDan61. I too checked the WHED, which seemed legitimate enough a source, before adding the URL; now that it has changed the URL, I'd say it's better not to give any URL than to give a possibly incorrect one. Huon (talk) 18:02, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

Complaint to Wikipedia for illegal libel to the University UNEM
The article is absolutely unacceptable for illegal libel to the University without any strong argument.

Firstly, in Costa Rica, the educational body to control and regulate the operation of private universities is CONESUP (National Council of Higher Education), NOT "SINAES". All University including public university in Costa Rica is NOT necessary to be accredited by SINAES. It is voluntarily for tertiary institutions in Costa Rica to be undergo the rigorous evaluation of the curriculum by SINAES. But until now NOT all accredited University in Costa Rica including Public University academic programs get the evaluation by SINAES. Evidence: http://www.sinaes.ac.cr/. How come the article requires UNEM to be get evaluation by SINAES? It will misleading the public that the university is unaccredited institution. It just like NOT all accredit business school MBA to be accredited by AMBA, AACSB and EQUIS! If MBA is NOT accredited by AMBA/AACSB/EQUIS, is Wikipedia need to mention the school MBA is non-accredited by those?

Second, the article mention "Costa Rica Star" that UNEM is ""infamous" for its involvement in several diploma mill allegations". But I checked the article in "Costa Rica Star" about UNEM is just quote from a "http://www.degreediscussion.com/" forum for their argument: http://news.co.cr/quality-of-education-and-cost-of-tuition-increase-in-costa-rica/24568/ But how come a discussion forum opinion can be a supporting source for the fact and argument of a University?? Is Wikipedia is so slipshod to simply accept the argument just quoted from a disscussion forum?? And actually in the http://www.degreediscussion.com forum, there had many controversial opinion including positive comment about UNEM also.

Third, the article quoted a dissertation from University of Pennsylvania to point out that UNEM "no graduates in 2007, and enrolled no students in 2010; it may be inactive": http://www.ulacit.cr/files/documentosULACIT/Silvia/Silvia_Castro_Final_Dissertation.pdf But I checked the dissertation DID NOT quote any reference to support his argument at all! WHY an essay or a dissertation opinion about an University that DID NOT quote any supporting reference CAN BE accepted by Wikipedia for a fact and argument for the University??

Is it the Wikipedia policy accept any discussion forum opinion or any essay/dissertation/thesis that do not quote any reference that can be a STRONG supporting reference??

Is it if I write something on a discussion forum or an online article about University of Cambridge, UK is diploma mill, then Wikipedia accept it as a source of reference and describe University of Cambridge is diploma mill??

I strongly request Wikipedia answer me the about questions and I make serious complaint to Wikipedia about the illegal Libel to the University and the follow alumni.

Please rectify the article.

F.C. Chan — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chan f.c. (talk • contribs) 09:49, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You clearly have very strong opinions about this school. These strong opinions make it difficult to edit with neutrality. You have opened a discussion here at the talk page; that discussion should be allowed to conclude prior to making any changes to the actual article.
 * As far as I see it, the article does no unfairly misrepresent the university. It reports (with citations) the opinions that have been published about the school. Admittedly, the story in the Costa Rica Star may not be well sourced, and we can discuss whether that is a reliable source or not, but that is a matter for discussion. Clearly, the Costa Rica Star felt that the arguments presented in its cited discussion forum and related links were compelling enough to publish the statement. If you were to post a similar statement in a forum about Cambridge, you'd be laughed out of the forum, and no serious discussion would have occurred. In this case, a serious discussion did occur, with various evidence presented, and the Star went to press with their statement. Such checking by the Star's editorial staff is generally sufficient for Wikipedia to quote the material from the source. Notice, this is not Wikipedia calling UNEM a diploma mill; it is merely Wikipedia reporting that others have called it a diploma mill. A fine distinction, perhaps, but an important one.
 * I welcome further discussion from Chan f.c. and others on this matter. But please remember, if you are here because you are involved with the school, this is a conflict of interest. The discussion of this material should occur between editors who do not have a vested interest in the outcome. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:21, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * P.S.: The legal threat included in the above post from Chan f.c. has been reported at WP:ANI. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:37, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Given the questionability of the Costa Rica Star story sourcing, I have added the Der Spiegel reference to the article as well, as a more reliable source. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 14:16, 4 February 2015 (UTC)


 * NOTE - The above legal threat was withdrawn on their talk page, see here. I have now unblocked  and invite them to reiterate here that they have withdrawn their threat of legal action.  -- GB fan 17:56, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

@WikiDan61: Actually I don't understand why I'm not neutral and not suitable to discuss and edit the article just because I involved with the school. Actually what I say in the above discussion is the fact that what I see, and as the alumni of the school, of course I have in-depth understanding of the school. If the article only suitable be edited by non-related person, I don't think it means "objective" and "meaningful".

If you look again the article, I don't believe it is "neutrality". It clearly be deviation to negative side for the university. For example, who can confirm the University is closed? But I see the article use "In that year it was approved by the Consejo Nacional de Enseñanza Superior Universitaria Privada". The article obviously concluded the school is inactive, just because the statement: "The university reported no graduates in 2007, and enrolled no students in 2010; it may be inactive." cited from an online essay without supporting reference.

Although you believe the article does no unfairly misrepresent the university, this is not public consensus. I, and many professional person I know, believe the article is not fair and not neutrality enough. That is because no solid ground evidence that the school is already inactive and sell degree to people without study.

At last, Wikipedia not like discussion forum, that's because Wikipedia have strong public credibility and strong influence. In discussion forum, I can write anything that I want to say, and I no need to responsible for my opinion. But Wikipedia is different, what be written in Wikipedia have strong influence to some person and some organization. And Wikipedia not like some small online private newspaper, that newspaper can write something without strong supporting reference, but I don't think Wikipedia will be the same.

This is my opinion, I believe Wikipedia should be a responsible enterprise, and make any argument with careful argumentation, especially some negative allegations, cited from some grapevine or rumor, or some online essay opinion without supporting reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chan f.c. (talk • contribs) 05:47, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * You are not neutral because the outcome of this discussion directly affects you. If we retain the information that UNEM is a diploma mill, that devalues your own degree from the institution. I cannot think of a clearer conflict of interest or a clearer reason that you should not edit this article. I and other editors, on the other hand, have no horse in this race. I makes no difference to my life whether UNEM is a diploma mill or not. All I care about is what the available sources say about the school. And what the available sources say is not good, so that's what we have to write at Wikipedia. We have no significant coverage of the university from any source that puts it in a good light. All we have are insignificant directory listings that verify its existence, and those are somewhat out of date and quite contradictory in their content. The article was listed at WP:AFD based on lack of sources, but that was rejected based on the availability of sources describing it as a diploma mill. So, to be fair, based on the sources, the only verifiable thing we can say about this school is that it has been called a diploma mill. I would invite you, Chan f.c., or any other editor, to list any significant coverage reliable sources that discuss this school in any other light. The various UN listings are not significant coverage. What we need is a full-length article written in a published newspaper, magazine or website that describes this university in some level of detail. That is the stuff that neutral articles are made of.

Hi, my name is Emily, worked with f.c. chan in same company. I see the above discussion, and I have something want to say.

I have some knowledge about UNEM. There are distance learning course established in Hong Kong. Please see the link: http://hkic.org/site/education/ba_business I try to ask for study the Bachelor of Business Administration before, they tell me it required to complete their Diploma and Advanced Diploma of Commerce first, through 2 years studying involves lectures, group discussions, case studies, presentations by students and Examinations & Assessment. After that it requires to complete a Business Project with around 10,000 words to grand the degree.

Of course, I still not studying the course now, but I believe there are quite rigid requirements to meet for graduation. I don't think it can be buy the degree without study for UNEM, just because I try to ask them today can I pay more money to grand the degree directly, they rejected me, haha...

I see there are many partnership institutions with UNEM in the world on website, but I cannot find one that can be grand degree directly without study. Maybe there are some bad institutions that jump over the study part to issue advanced diploma for top up the degree, and help student to write the dissertation directly to grand the degree, I don't know. But the problem should be in the partnership institutions, not UNEM. The similar case had happened in University of Wales, UK. There were partner college with University of Wales to be found illegally operated in Kuala Lumpur and Thailand. You can find the BBC News link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-15157119

I hope this information can be help you for judgment. As the colleague of Mr. Chan, I see him look gloominess about that. And now Mr. Chan have something working, maybe he will reply you directly later.

Best regards, Emily — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emily.H.Kitty (talk • contribs) 15:13, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but personal reflections and observations do not make reliable sources. We need published material (articles, broadcast news stories where either the video or transcript are available for review, etc.). WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 15:28, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

According to WikiDano NO argument is good enought, and he deliverly put infamous information. Not good, Mr WikiDanRamdiesel (talk) 16:20, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * That's untrue. An argument based on actual published sources, which is always a global Wikipedia requirement, would be good enough. The article reflects what reliable sources have published about the institution. If Ramdiesel or anyone else can provide reliable soures that say anything else, the Wikipedia community would be glad to see them. But a string of personal reflections on the nature of the school is not going to help. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 16:32, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * For the record, I fully agree with WikiDan61 here. Huon (talk) 20:26, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

One more thing，UNEM was orginally began as the International Post Gradute School in affiliation with the University of San Jose，from the start，it faced to the international student. So it's graduates be all over the world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Viviansyc (talk • contribs) 02:12, 6 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I cannot agree with you, WikiDan61. I am not the staff or director of the University, I have no real "interest" in it. Although you retain the information that UNEM is a diploma mill and caused devaluation of all alumni degree from the institution is a fact, this does not mean that I cannot make fair and equitable argument. In contrast, because of my alumni identity, I have in-depth understanding of the current situation of the school operation. It is better than other people that incorrectly relay an erroneous information.

Hall of Fame NOTABLE PEOPLE Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica
Hall of Fame NOTABLE PEOPLE Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica UNEM The following is a list of 29 areas of outstanding graduates and alumni, all covers in a variety of high-order industry, including the royal family, the prime minister, president, astronaut, astronauts, doctors, scientists, interior design consultants, professors, lecturers, directors, officers, directors, ministers, and chief executive officer, and so on.

1) Mr. Kenneth Chan (Hong Kong / Master), graduated from the University of Costa Rica UNEM - Master of Arts. He is currently serving Y Plus Design Studio Ltd. (Hong Kong), director of interior design. Mr. Kenneth Chan has over 15 years experience in interior design. Kenneth has been the home of many Asian companies and international-type restaurants offer lots of money as a design consultant. He was also the Hong Kong Council of Social Service awarded the SME Social Care Award - Caring Company 03 - 08. Links: http://www.yplusdesign.com.hk/yp_summary_design.htm

2) Dr. Wu Jianming Dr. Bobby Ng (Hong Kong / PhD) graduated from the University of Costa UNEM - Dr. art. Serving: - Macau University art courses (Asia), Professor - Part-time lecturer at the Department of Education Arts Chinese University of Hong Kong - International Art Consultant Designers Association Dr. Wu Jianming artistic talent for training in Hong Kong a part to play. 1970 began with Mr. Jin Micro-day study Western painting. 1977 graduates of the University of Hong Kong School of Continuing Studies Department's "Pure Art and Design" Diploma. 1986 completed the School of Continuing Studies Department of the Chinese University of Hong Kong "filmmaking" Diploma. 1987 Philippe Charriol Foundation sponsored acquire modern painting champion, also named Hong Kong Contemporary Art Biennial. Japan also won the 1990 Japanese graphic art eleventh championship. Since 1991, he was invited to participate in exhibitions in Germany, France, Japan, Korea, Taiwan and around the world organized, but also held many solo exhibitions, more than eighty times. His works for the Hong Kong Museum of Art and the Chinese and foreign collections.

Links: http://www.hkiai.com/portfolio-and-event/teacher/bobby-ng.html

3) Dr. Benby Chan Yiu-Tsuan (Hong Kong / PhD) graduated from the University of Costa Rica UNEM - Philosophy Doctor of Business Administration. He is currently vice chairman of Asia Aluminum Group and chief executive in Hong Kong. Links: http://demo.mixmedia.com/aa/web/eng/exe_dir.html

4) Dr. Leung Wai-Cheung (Hong Kong / PhD) graduated from the University of Costa Rica UNEM- Bo Shishi Philosophy in Business Administration. He is currently in China Metal Resources Holdings Limited - Hong Kong district president. Links: http://www.cmr8071.com/en/chairman.asp

5) Dr. Huang Weisheng - (Hong Kong) Holdings Limited BenQ - Dr. Sir Michael holds a BA in International Business Management liter in college, a master's degree in International Business Administration University of the United States of America Wies Church City, Virginia and university Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica (UNEM) Ph.D., mine safety technology and completed three comprehensive examination certificate China's Xinjiang Coal Mine Safety Supervision Bureau, and at Harvard Medical School, School of Continuing Education completed lifestyle medicine Stress Management Diploma. Given Mr. Huang's international development and investment achievements, Mr. Wong was appointed as trade consultant in Equatorial Guinea Honorary Consul of Romania in Bucharest, and the Knights of St. John of Jerusalem (Sovereign Order of Saint John of Jerusalem, Knights of Malta, Federation of the Autonomous Priories (KMFAP)) of the People's Republic of China Macao Special Administrative Region of the delegation of the Special Adviser for Foreign Affairs. Links: http://www.cre8ir.com/zh-hant/ Board 08239

6) Dr. Leung Ka Tung (Hong Kong / PhD) from South China China Ltd Dr. Leung Ka Tung has been appointed as Non-Executive Independent Director of South China (China) Limited effective December 10, 2012. He is an independent non-executive director of South China Land Limited. Dr. Leung has over 35 years of experience in property and hotel industry through his prior employments with the Lands Department of Hong Kong Government and various prominent listed property developers, such as The Hong Kong Land Co. Ltd., Hysan Development Co. Ltd., Lai Sun Development Co. Ltd. and Ryoden Development Ltd., and a surveyor company, Chesterton Petty Ltd., in Hong Kong. He was the Founder of TL Property Consultants International Limited and is the Chairman of TL Property Group. Dr. Leung holds a Doctorate Degree of Philosophy in Business Administration from Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica (UNEM), a Master Degree of Science in International Real Estate (with Distinction) from The Hong Kong Polytechnic University and a Bachelor Degree in Social Science (Hons) in Economics and Business Administration from Chung Chi College of The Chinese University of Hong Kong. Links: http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/officerProfile?symbol=0413.HK&officerId=2328568

Dr. Leung Wai-Cheung - Independent non-executive Director from Mobicon Group Limited (Hong Kong) who graduated with Doctor of Philosophy Degree in Management from Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica (UNEM) was reported in Reuters report Dr. Leung. Wai-Cheung is also with other 2 Listed Companies including Wing Hing International Holdings Ltd. (Hong Kong) and Far East Pharmaceutical Technology Company Ltd. (Hong Kong). Links: http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/companyOfficers?symbol=1213.HK

7) Deng Hongsheng (Freddy Tang) Dr. (Macau / Associate Professor), graduated from the University of Costa Rica British Bayle (ampere pure Australian University) - (. Phd) Doctor of Business Administration. He is currently an associate professor of City University of Macau. City University of Macau Dr. Deng Hongsheng Introduction: http://www.cityu.edu.mo/fob/Professor.php?id=2

8) Mok Yee Ling (Sandra Mok) Dr. (Macau / Associate Professor), graduated from the University of Costa Rica, England Bayle (amps pure Macau University) - Doctor of Business Administration. She is currently an associate professor of City University of Macau. City University of Macau Dr. Mo Qiling Introduction: http://www.cityu.edu.mo/fob/Professor.php?id=2

9) Tsong-Liang Huang (Taiwan) is currently the University of Costa Rica UNEM - Honorary Chair Professor. He also serves several important functions: - Professor, University of Costa Rica British Bayle Honorary Lecture - National Taipei on Education Department of Computer Science and Institute Professor permanent free evaluation - South Wing University of Science and Technology Chair Professor and Chancellor (seconded) - American Institute of Finance Management (AAFM) Fellow - US financial advisor Global Advisors Financial Management Institute - China International Society of CIAI (AASCB member) chairman - China International Project Management Association of love cum - International Project and Quality Management Institute (IPQMI) Lifetime Distinguished Chair Professor

National Taipei IT Graduate Institute of Education Sciences, Professor permanent free evaluation: http://www.cs.ntue.edu.tw/ft-teacher.php Southern Taiwan University of Science and Technology Wing Chair Professor and Principal: http://www.nju.edu.tw/njpd/ English resume English Bio: http://www.cs.ntue.edu.tw/Tsong-Liang Huang.html Chinese history Chinese Bio: http://www.cs.ntue.edu.tw/ft-teacher.php

10) You Li Li lecturer (Taiwan), graduated from the University of Costa Rica UNEM - Master of Linguistics. Western Literature Department of the incumbent National University of Kaohsiung in Taiwan, specializing in Spanish. Links: http://dowell.nuk.edu.tw/main.php?mod=custom_page&site_id=1&page_id=20

11) Wenhao physician (Taiwan), graduated from the University of Costa Rica UNEM - Medical Doctor of Management. Current Corning Corning Hospital Medical Foundation. School Address: 114 Success Lu Wuduan Neihu, Taipei 420, Lane on the 26th Wenhao Corning Hospital, MD:http://www.knh.org.tw/interview/su-5.html

12) Zhangyuan Zhen teacher (Taiwan), graduated from the University of Costa Rica, UNEM - Master of Education. Serving: - British Penny Price aromatherapist school campuses founding president of Taiwan - Source Zhen International Aromatic Care Institute founding principals - Aromatic Care Education Promotion Society of China founding chairman - Deva Satya international flower essence therapy College President - East remain a source of aromatherapy research center nursery education consultant - Natural Medicine homeopath - US IPMO international practitioners - TransWorld University - Assistant Professor, Department of beauty design - Ling Tung University - Assistant Professor, Department of Taiwan East remain popular design source po Aromatherapy Research Center:http://www.natural-planter.com.tw/company/teacher_a.html Taiwan source Zhen aromatic Care Institute: http://jenaroma.com.tw/teacher_introduction_35.htm

13) Mr. Su-Chun Wang (Taiwan), graduated from the University of Costa Rica UNEM - MBA. Is currently an assistant professor at National Tsinghua University in Taiwan. National Tsinghua University in Taiwan - Teachers: http://my.nthu.edu.tw/~physical/org_e.html National Tsing Hua University in Taiwan - Website: http://www.nthu.edu.tw/

14) Wangsu Jun teacher (Taiwan), graduated from the University of Costa Rica UNEM - Master of Physical Education. The current Asia-Pacific Institute of Creativity - General Education Center sports group instructor, body guard team. Specializes in table tennis, bowling, badminton, fitness, sports appreciation. Links: http://www.apic.edu.tw/onweb.jsp?webno=3333333;06 (Physical activity group)

15) Cao Wenzhong teacher (Taiwan), graduated from the University of Costa Rica UNEM - Master of Physical Education. The current Asia-Pacific Institute of Creativity - General Education Center sports group instructor. Expertise fitness guidance in judo, water sports, self-defense, body, disability sports, bowling. Links: http://www.apic.edu.tw/onweb.jsp?webno=3333333;06 (Physical activity group)

16) wind Zhen Hao teacher (Taiwan), graduated from the University of Costa Rica UNEM - Master of Physical Education. The current Asia-Pacific Institute of Creativity - General Education Center sports group instructor, class refers to the group members. Specializes in general sports, baseball and softball. Links: http://www.apic.edu.tw/onweb.jsp?webno=3333333;06 (Physical activity group)

17) Dr. Jaime Ramon (USA / PhD - astronauts and cosmonauts) - graduated from the University of Costa Rica UNEM - Dr. scientific management system. Links: http://www.spacefacts.de/bios/candidates/nasa19/english/quinones_jaime.htm

18) Dr. Jones, James E (USA / Professor) - graduated from the University of Costa Rica UNEM - Doctor of Philosophy Department. The current chairman and professor at Indiana University. Links: http://www.iu.edu/~bulletin/iu/dentistry/2009-2011/faculty/full-time.shtml

19) Dr. Bruce Strom (USA / Assistant Professor) - graduated from the University of Costa Rica UNEM - Dr. scientific management system. Current US Indiana University Institute for Emerging Careers, and Director of Outreach and Grants assistant professor and executive director. Links: http://www.cln.iupui.edu/content/gs/career-c.html

20) Dr. William A. Stack (USA / consultant Director) graduated from the University of Costa Rica, UNEM, and has a master's degree with a double doctorate. Include: master's and doctoral psychology teaching, educational administration and leadership Ed.D., is a graduate of the University of Costa Rica UNEM. He is currently serving an international education consultant. Links: http://stack.ws/william/html/education.html

21) Dr. Herbert Hermann Hilbig (Germany / Professor), graduated from the University of Costa Rica, UNEM. He is currently a professor of American University. Biographical introduction: http://www.amberbakery.com/8.2_authors-bio.htm His doctoral dissertation: http://www.amberbakery.com/8.21_dissertation.htm

22) Professor Sen (English name: Hun Sen) - Cambodian Prime Minister and leader of the Cambodian People's Party. He is now the Southeast Asian countries in the second longest reign of state leaders. Hun Sen in July 2008 to get the University of Costa Rica Bayle awarded British Diplomacy and International Relations - Honorary Professor. Links: http://sokheounpang.wordpress.com/2009/01/10/

23) Dr. Reiff George (Thailand and India / Professor) -. He is a Full Professor at EIILM University in India He graduated with Bachelor of Economic, Master of Economic History, and Doctor of Philosophy for all from Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica (UNEM) He is also a Knights of Rizal -. Lifetime Member, Siam Society - Lifetime Member, ÖASG - Lifetime Member, and Russian Space Federation - Lifetime Member Links: http://th.linkedin.com/pub/george-reiff/14/327/894

24) The President of Gambia (Africa / Premier) Alhaji Dr. Yahya Jammeh has also been conferred an Honorary Professorship for Traditional Medicine by the School of Biology and Life Science at the Empresarial University of Costa Rica (UNEM). Links: http://www.statehouse.gm/international-awards_191108.htm

25) Prof. Dr. Roger Haw Boon Hong (Malaysia / PhD and professor) who also graduated from Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica (UNEM), is the founder cum Chairman of Ansted University (Asia Regional Service Center, Penang, Malaysia). He is also the Founder cum Chairman of the First kind of World Book of Records with a Focus on Corporate Social Responsibility aspects 'SRW RecordPedia' and Founded the Ansted Social Responsibility International Award (ASRIA) to recognize those Corporations, NGOs and individuals around the world . He has co-authored several books and research papers in the areas of Corporate Social Responsibility, Learning Organizations, Culture & Peace and Distance / Virtual Learning Programmes which were published by various publishers in the UK, Europe, USA, India, Korea, Thailand, Canada, and Malaysia, etc. Links: http://www.ansteduniversity.org/

26) Dr. Patrick Tan (Singapore / Associate Professor) is an Associate Professor who graduated from Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica (UNEM). He received his education from Nanyang Technological University in Computer Engineering, and achieved a Ph.D in Business Administration ( DBA) from Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica (UNEM). He is now an Associate Professor in Charisma University. Links: http://www.charismauniversity.org/aboutboardprofiles.php

27) Dr. Kassey Kalleichelven (Singapore / experienced teachers) graduated with Doctor of Philosophy (PhD) in Employee and organization image from Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica (UNEM). He is an Associate Senior Lecturer in Business Tourism Hospitality Building Facilities and Construction management. Links: http://sg.linkedin.com/pub/kassey-kalleichelven/15/4b5/444

28) Hun Sen's https://chethtrade.wordpress.com/2009/01/26/ – July 2008, the Honorable Professor of Diplomatic and International Relations, the Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica, Costa Rica.

29) Prof. (Dr.) Daniel Esteban Odin INTERNATIONAL EDITORIAL ADVISORY BOARD The Business University of Costa Rica, Central America http://www.academia.edu/4669905/Competitiveness_of_Selected_Brands_of_Comsumer_Products_in_Emerging_Market

Ramdiesel (talk) 19:14, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I will respond here in the same manner I did when you posted this laundry list on my user talk page: this list is irrelevant, as the claim on any persons resume that they have a degree from UNEM does not constitute a reliable sources, but it is curious that many of the degrees listed fall outside the areas for which UNEM is accredited to confer degrees. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 19:31, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

I believe the list quoted from |Remdiese| should be good enough reliable sources，it indicate that the degree from UNEM is recognized by reputable university and government organization around the world until now. I believe it is better sources than accept discussion forum as reliable sources as discussed above. Is it right?

I think it is not fair to every editors if it can accept discussion forum as reliable sources，but reject more reliable sources by other editors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Viviansyc (talk • contribs) 01:50, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * No, Ramdiesel's list only indicates that many people claim degrees from UNEM (many of them honorary degrees). It says nothing about any entity accepting those degrees as legitimate. We still have no significant coverage from reliable sources, and a raft of WP:SPA accounts claiming otherwise isn't going to change that. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 02:54, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

You mean those reputable universities and government organizations did not check those degree is legitimate or not?

Maybe something you do not know. Being a Professor of a reputable universities is not just have honorary degree can be do. It will through rigid evaluation, first the candidate should hold a research base PHD degree, not a honorary degree you mention. Second, it should requires candidate to show sufficient research paper and doctoral dissertation to evaluate the candidate have sufficient research ability to being professor. Of course, there will be an oral interview to check the candidate academic knowledge to meet the standard to teach undergraduate and graduate students in the University. And there should be regular evaluation each year for those professor is competent enough or not to teach.

It is not reasonable for a person just buy a honorary degree without studying can do that.

What I want to say is, if a newspaper that evaluate a discussion forum opinion is good enough to Wiki as reliable source, I believe those reputable universities and government organizations that evaluate the University degree academic standard and legitimate is more reliable source. It should be more reasonable and fair to every editors. Thanks!
 * What I'm saying is that Wikipedia has standards as to what we consider as reliable sources, and the autobiographical sketches of various industrial executives and professors do not meet those standards. I'm sorry if that fact upsets you. Take that matter up at Wikipedia talk:Reliable sources. But until that policy is changed, it is the one we have to use.
 * I should point out that only a few of Ramdiesel's list are actually full professors anywhere. A few more are associate professors. None are government officials (except Hun Sen, who is not listed as an actual graduate, but only as having been granted an Honorary Professorship.) Most are involved in industry of some sort. One (Jaime Ramon Quinones) is listed as an "Astronaut Candidate" for NASA at a website called spacefacts.de, but the NASA website knows nothing of him. If we're going to discuss an impressive list of notable UNEM grads, let's try to make sure the list is actually impressive. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 05:02, 6 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Although there are not enough impressive notable UNEM people as you desire, but compared with the short history (acquired its present name since 1997) and comparatively small private university in Costa Rica, those amount of notable UNEM alumni is good enough to demonstrate the school is reputable.

Disengaging
I am disengaging from this matter. All request for reliable sources have been met with long diatribes, lists of "notable alumni" and other noise that does nothing to resolve the matter at hand. Clearly, there are editors at Wikipedia whose passion to support UNEM, in the absence of any source for which to do so, outstrips my passion to see that the article continue to report what the actually available sources say. I'm done. Let others defend the Wikipedia guidelines, or let the article devolve into a whitewash. I'll be elsewhere, working on other issues. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 13:23, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Sorry to interrupt you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chan f.c. (talk • contribs) 13:41, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Accreditation and Recognition
Regarding WikiDan61 requires, I try to list the most updated accreditation and recognition by international government Ministry of Education and independent credential evaluations organization:

1. UNEM is regionally accredited from State of Costa Rica (Ministry of Public Education) and by approval of its charter from CONESUP (Consejo Nacional de Enseñanza Superior Universitaria Privada) (National Council of University Private Higher Education- The apex national educational body for accreditation, control and regulation of the operation of private universities in Costa Rica) Session Number 336-97 which met on November 5, 1997:

http://www.mep.go.cr/oferta-academica (Most updated in 2015)

The document of approval from CONESUP (Updated):

http://www.mep.go.cr/sites/default/files/oferta_academica/38-EMPRESARIAL.pdf


 * Accredited to confer three degrees: Bachelor of Business Administration, Bachelor of Contaduria (Google can't figure this word out, but I believe it's accounting), and Professional Master of Business Administration. So what is it doing conferring Doctorate degrees?

2. UNEM has been recognized by Taiwan Ministry of Education, Database for the reference List of Foreign University:

http://www.fsedu.moe.gov.tw/home.aspx

http://www.fsedu.moe.gov.tw/show.aspx?TempId=&Id=8326


 * List explicitly states that it is for reference only, and does not represent any kind of approval''.

3. UNEM degree is evaluated by NACES World Education Services (WES), a nonprofit organization that provides credential evaluations for international students and immigrants planning to study or work in the U.S. and Canada

https://hk.images.search.yahoo.com/images/view;_ylt=A3eg9GmPm9RUBE0AuGi1ygt.;_ylu=X3oDMTIzNmwydDYxBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDaW1nBG9pZAMwYzc0NDk0OTgwMzM4ZTllODEwZjA0ZGY1NWI4ZjYzYQRncG9zAzkyBGl0A2Jpbmc-?.origin=&back=https%3A%2F%2Fhk.images.search.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fimages%3Fp%3Duniversidad%2Bempresarial%2Bde%2Bcosta%2Brica%26fr%3Dyfp-t-900-s-hk%26fr2%3Dpiv-forum%26nost%3D1%26tab%3Dorganic%26ri%3D92&w=992&h=785&imgurl=unem.appliedchain.com%2Fdistancelearning%2FWES-02-1.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Funem.appliedchain.com%2Ftw.html&size=189.6KB&name=選擇+%3Cb%3Euniversidad+empresarial+de+costa+rica%3C%2Fb%3E+然後+按下+continue&p=universidad+empresarial+de+costa+rica&oid=0c74494980338e9e810f04df55b8f63a&fr2=piv-forum&fr=yfp-t-900-s-hk&tt=選擇+%3Cb%3Euniversidad+empresarial+de+costa+rica%3C%2Fb%3E+然後+按下+continue&b=61&ni=21&no=92&ts=&tab=organic&sigr=1140sm1je&sigb=14hm81bh1&sigi=11jn8p7s7&sigt=12angircp&sign=12angircp&.crumb=ypZXxy1h2m/&fr=yfp-t-900-s-hk&fr2=piv-forum


 * I quote from the document linked above:
 * Note: Any degree equivalency provided is based on information you have entered. It is not based on verified information or documents and may not be used as proof that you attended and institution or earned a degree.
 * In other words, this information is meaningless in evaluating the actual meaning of a UNEM degree.

4. UNEM has been listed by United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO); International Association of Universities (IAU) and the International Handbook of Universities:

http://bves.unesco.org.ve/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2570:costa-rica&catid=210&Itemid=757&lang=en


 * Check. UNEM Exists.

5. UNEM is listed in Worldwide Classroom - Consortium for International Education & Multicultural Studies:

http://www.worldwide.edu/ci/costa_rica/flschools_adult5.html


 * Check again. They still exist. Address 62-2050, San Jose, Costa Rica. (Does San Jose not use street names in its addresses like the rest of the world?)

6. UNEM is listed in Universities Worldwide: http://www.univ.cc/search.php?dom=cr&key=&start=1


 * Yep, they are. Check again, they still exist.

7. UNEM is evaluated by The Hong Kong Council for Accreditation of Academic and Vocational Qualifications (HKCAAVQ) as same as local degree in Hong Kong in Nov, 2014.


 * Citation? I went to their website and searched for "Universidad Empresarial". That search came up empty.

I hope the above information is sufficient as reliable source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chan f.c. (talk • contribs)
 * No, this information is not a sufficient reliable source, and much of it is a rehash of discussion that have already occurred on this page. I have listed in italics above the various findings at the websites given. What we know is that UNEM exists, and that it is certified in Costa Rica to offer a very limited degree of business related courses. What we don't know is on what basis it provides doctorate degrees in medicine, business and engineering. What we don't have is a single instance of significant coverage to contradict the significant coverage we do have (in both the Costa Rica Star and Der Spiegel). WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:22, 6 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Dear Sir, WikiDan61, I want to express my viewpoint deeply about Der Spiegel article here. I hope you can read that and have deep discussion, and welcome others editors for discussion.

Firstly, the English translation version of Der Spiegel article mentioned that: "On their website, there are no detailed information on courses or university management still images from the campus, as no names of teachers are called. On the Internet there are different addresses." And mentioned they visited the address of UNEM in 2008, and they found the address is already moved. And the UNEM President William Zamora replied them UNEM will be move to new building in the region of Montes de Oca, that will just built. But Zamora refused to provide the new building address at those time.

However, now I see the article in Wiki become: "A 2008 investigation by Der Spiegel failed to find any legitimate campus or professors associated with UNEM." Actually it make public have impression that the university is FAKE university. But this is not the original article of Der Spiegel mean! Der Spiegel only say that they cannot found teachers name in the UNEM website and cannot found the new building address of UNEM in 2008!

The article in Wiki is obviously misleading the public impression of FAKE university about UNEM.

Secondly, the Der Spiegel article have paragraph titled "Criminal proceedings for abuse Title". They quoted example of A. Volker. A. Volker used the title "Dr. hc (unem)" with his investment firm of A. & Partner addition to the "outsourcing of payroll taxes intensive businesses exchange of something' different kind ' !!! " offers. He were charged with Title abuse because he is said to have performed an honorary doctorate "Dr. hc unem" wrongly. But this case just because he use the title "Dr. hc unem" for outsourcing of payroll taxes intensive businesses exchange of something offers. He is involved a "Money Fraud" and be prosecuted, but I don't think that is related to UNEM fraud.

The Der Spiegel article then mentioned: "According to the Central Office for Foreign Education in Germany is running against another person, criminal proceedings Title abuse in connection with a UNEM title." But following they write: "In Germany allowed a doctor or honorary doctorate degree, awarded by a university outside the EU are generally performed only in the original form conferred under clearly understandable indication of the lending institution."

That means in Germany is allowed a doctor or honorary doctorate degree, but limited to the use conferred under clearly understandable indication of the lending institution. Obviously the article didn't say the honorary doctorate issued by UNEM is fake degree and illegal, but only say that people in Germany abused the honorary degree title to do illegal things, such as "Money Fraud".

As "Honorary Degree" defined in Wiki, you can see that "It is sometimes recommended that such degrees be listed in one's CV as an award and not in their education section." And "With regard to the use of this honorific, the policies of institutions of higher education generally ask that recipients "refrain from adopting the misleading title".

The criminal case in Germany is just because the abuse of title.

How come now I see in the Wiki article become: "Der Spiegel continued by reporting on the criminal charges brought against several German citizens for using false credentials obtained from UNEM."?

It will misleading public impression that UNEM issue false credentials.

Thirdly, I believe that UNEM might be issued honorary doctorate degree with donation in 2008 as stated in Der Spiegel article: ""We can offer you an honorary doctorate and an honorary professorship, if you agree, we need a donation from you Remember, these are two documents, so there must be a significant donation.." But what is the problem about that? Many many famous universities in the world has been issued honorary doctorate to person with great contribution to the university or society. I can give you many example to you about that, such as the following example happened in Hong Kong:

Sir Ka-shing Li, the top wealthy person in Hong Kong, has granted several honorary doctorate without study and with/without donation to those universities, including Beijing University, The Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, The Chinese University of Hong Kong, City University of Hong Kong, University of Cambridge, The Open University of Hong Kong. However, Sir Ka-shing Li only had primary education. Link: https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%9D%8E%E5%98%89%E8%AA%A0

Although I believe if you can donate a huge amount of money, some universities maybe issue honorary degree to you because of the great contribution to the university or society. But this is common, make sense and reasonable, but I don't think that mean diploma mill.

I hope the deep discussion above can make the article become more fair, neutral and reasonable. Many thanks!
 * @ Very well, I accept your point about the German prosecution for misrepresentation, and I will remove that sentence. As for the rest of this latest screed:
 * Wikipedia is not obviously misrepresenting the facts. The article is reporting what the reliable source have said. Since there are scant reliable sources that have anything positive to say about this institution (and please don't rebut this by the list of accreditations again: those are mere listings but not actual significant coverage amounting to a reliable source), and several reliable sources that have something negative to say about the institution, we have to balance the article based on the weight of the available resources. As for the issue of granting honorary degrees in appreciation for donations, it is a generally accepted fact that a university may well thank a donor in this manner, but it is a serious breach of ethics to respond to a request for degrees by an offer to essentially sell honorary degrees in exchange for donations. WikiDan61 ChatMe!ReadMe!! 17:06, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
 * According to Der Spiegel, UNEM is not accredited to award doctoral degrees and thus cannot award honorary doctoral degrees - at least, not ones Germans are permitted to use in Germany. They report on one case (and only one) where a German was found guilty of abuse of titles for using a honorary doctoral degree awarded by UNEM. Huon (talk) 21:00, 6 February 2015 (UTC)

Yes， I can't agree more with the long and deep discussion to find the true side of the newspaper meaning，and the ethics problem concerned by WikiDan61. It done a great job and I appreciate c.f chan and WikiDan61for the heart to find a true! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Viviansyc (talk • contribs) 01:29, 7 February 2015 (UTC)


 * @ Dear Sir, WikiDan61, many thanks for your patiently listening to my argument. I am happy to see there are some correction about the article based on the truth. There are scant news about the school, but compared to the small country with only 4.5 millions population in Costa Rica, which have 5 public universities and 50 private universities especially most of private universities established after 1990 , that a relatively very small and new UNEM cannot catch the "eyeball" of newspaper is reasonable. Although I cannot provide updated newspaper or article that describe the school exhaustively or positively, I still believe the article in Wiki is misrepresenting the facts as follow reasons.

Firstly, according to Der Spiegel, the main meaning of this article is to indicate the "Title mills" happened in Germany that people in Germany abused title related to UNEM, but not "Diploma mills". Although the article mention that people can gain honorary doctorate and an honorary professorship through donation, and mention UNEM is not accredited to award doctoral degrees and thus cannot award honorary doctoral degrees: "The honorary doctorates and honorary professorship 'UNEM' previously presented here were acquired as part of international distance learning courses and could, if only for this reason, in Germany not be recommended for the guidance", there are all related to honorary doctorate/professorship problem, so it only related to "title mills", not "Diploma mills". Now I explain exhaustively what I say.

"Honorary degree" have clear definition in Wiki: "An honorary degree... is an academic degree for which a university (or other degree-awarding institution) has waived the usual requirements, such as matriculation, residence, study and the passing of examinations...and may be awarded to someone who has no prior connection with the academic institution...The degree is often conferred as a way of honouring a distinguished visitor's contributions to a specific field or to society in general...and the university may derive benefits by association with the person in question. The degree is not recognized by employers as having the same stature as a corresponding earned doctorate degree and should not be represented as such. It is sometimes recommended that such degrees be listed in one's CV as an award and not in their education section.[4] With regard to the use of this honorific, the policies of institutions of higher education generally ask that recipients "refrain from adopting the misleading title"[5] and that a recipient of an honorary doctorate's use of the title "Dr" before his or her name should be restricted to engagement with the institution of higher education in question and not within the broader community." . And "Honorary professorship" have similar definition.

It explains that "Honorary degree" has been restricted to engagement with the institution of higher education and not within the broader community. The case in Germany obviously is "abuse the title". And because of the "Honorary degree" should be waived the usual requirement of academic study, and should be listed in one's CV as an "award", the "award" nature represent no academic standard involved.

Although the UNEM President William Zamora replied people could gain honorary doctorate/professorship through donation, it normally be restricted to engagement with the university and not within the broader community. And as the "Award" nature of "honorary degree" and waived the usual academic requirement in general, it should not be necessary meet the academic standard and accreditation by CONESUP. And it should not refer to "diploma mills" because of it's "Award" nature.

For the article in "Costa Rica Star", it seems only have a very small paragraph describes the diploma mill scandals to UNEM cited from a discussion forum without further explanation and investigation. And I go through the discussion forum, I cannot find any reliable source other than the mention of Der Spiegel article and the doctoral dissertation in 2010, so the diploma mill scandals made from "Costa Rica Star" should be refer to the Der Spiegel article say. "Costa Rica Star" mentioned: "students that paid money for a degree that they did not earn through studies or academic competence. This is a school that has granted PhD degrees to professionals from the United States and Germany as well." This story should refer to the people gain honorary doctorate/professorship through donation.

As I mentioned before, the story of "people gain honorary doctorate/professorship through donation" should not be equal to "diploma mills", because the nature of "honorary doctorate/professorship" should be an "Award" for donation and no "academic standard" involved, and should be restricted to engagement with the institution of higher education in question and not within the broader community in general. "Costa Rica Star" are incorrectly misleading the public with wrong argument for "diploma mill" allegations that relay an erroneous information on discussion forum.

The article in Wiki is obviously misrepresenting the facts to describe UNEM is "diploma mills".

According to Wiki policy, "All encyclopedic content on Wikipedia must be written from a neutral point of view (NPOV), which means representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic." I require to rewrite the article to reflect the actual meaning and the truth.

To reflect the ethics problem concerned by WikiDan61 and the truth of the newspaper meaning, I agree it rewrite to: "A 2008 investigation by Der Spiegel found that people could gain honorary doctorate/professorship through donation and in 2013 Costa Rica Star described this allegations." And "Der Spiegel failed to find the names of teachers in the official website, and failed to find the new campus address at that time"

I hope a neutral, fair, without bias and well representing article should be established. It will more fair to every people and conform the aim of Wikipedia policy.

Thank you very much!


 * @ For the record, I agree with you. The article should be better rewriting to reflect the truth.Musiccafeangela (talk) 16:33, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Ok, this argument sounds reasonable. The article describes UNEM look like with bias, and not neutral and fair enough to reflect the truth. The article misrepresents the school is non-existent and non-accredit school. It also misrepresents students can pay to receive all kind of degrees without study. But that is not the truth as discussed above. I believe that mentions of people can gain honorary doctorate/professorship through donation in rewriting could actually reflect the newspaper say. And rewriting is necessary to reflect the school still exists as discussed above, and still gain approval from ministry of public education in costa rica CONESUP until now as shown in the above list. I support rewriting, to reflect the truth, and be fair to every people. However, I suggest to mention UNEM until now only get approval from CONESUP to award undergraduate degrees in accounting, BBA and MBA only, to reflect the truth that PhD course still not yet gain the approval from CONESUP. Thanks every editors work! Viviansyc (talk) 15:40, 8 February 2015 (UTC)


 * @ : @ Thank you so much for yours support of rewriting the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chan f.c. (talk • contribs) 02:30, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Rewriting the article
According to the above discussion, I try to rewrite the article to reflect the truth.Emily.H.Kitty (talk) 18:00, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

We have consensus here for rewriting, but the rewriting had been reverted by user: Justlettersandnumbers without reason and discussion.Emily.H.Kitty (talk) 18:23, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * I support your version with neutral point of view (NPOV), including all elements in the discussion above, neutral, fair, without bias and well representing the University.

I edited the article, according to the discussion in the talk page.. Please thank and support
I edited the article, according to the discussion in the talk page.. Please thank and supportRamdiesel (talk) 18:43, 9 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Dear Ramidese, I support the version written by editor Emily.H.Kitty. It includes neutral point of view (NPOV), including all elements in the discussion above, neutral, fair, without bias and well representing the University. Thank you for protecting the Justice and Truth.