Talk:University of La Verne College of Law/Archive 1

Proposed Changes to University of La Verne College of Law
Information to be added or removed: The University of La Verne College of Law is a private [|law school] in [|Ontario, California] accredited by the [|State Bar of California]. Founded in 1970, it is part of the [|University of La Verne] in Southern California.

History
The University of La Verne was founded as Lordsburg College in 1891 by members of the [|Church of the Brethren], a religious denomination emerging in 18th century Germany that migrated to California by way of Pennsylvania in the 19th century. The surrounding town changed its name to [|La Verne] in 1917, and the school followed suit not long after, renaming itself La Verne College. Through the 1920s and ‘30s, the college primarily granted education degrees but gradually started diversifying its programs toward the middle of the 20th century. As part of this growth effort, the school granted its first master’s degree in 1965.

Seeing a need for legal education in the [|Inland Empire], Superior Court Judge Paul Egly proposed a plan for a law school and presented his idea to then-President Leland Newcomer in 1969. Initially called the La Verne College Law Center, the school opened in 1970, with Egly serving as dean and its advisory committee consisting of local attorneys and judges.

As enrollment grew, La Verne College of Law merged with the San Fernando Valley College of Law in 1985. However, the two operated as independent entities under the University of La Verne until 2002, when the [|University of West Los Angeles] purchased the San Fernando Valley College of Law campus.

Realizing it needed a larger location, La Verne College of Law moved from the Hoover building on the main campus in [|La Verne, Calif.], to a new location in Ontario in 2001. The seven-acre campus with a 64,000 square foot facility is located adjacent to Ontario City Hall, the Ontario Civic Center, and the City Library.

For the first 30 years of its existence, the La Verne College of Law operated as a State Bar of California–accredited program. The school decided to seek [|American Bar Association (ABA) accreditation] in 1996 and received provisional accreditation in 2006. While that status lapsed by 2011, it was reinstated by 2012. By 2016, the school gained full ABA accreditation and, for the next three years, was known as the Inland Empire’s only ABA-accredited law school.

In November 2019, the College of Law’s board of trustees voted to convert the school from an ABA-accredited institution to one again accredited by the State Bar of California. The move followed an investigation by the school’s faculty and administrators to evaluate the source of declining enrollment and develop a plan for the law school’s future. The school’s decision was also influenced by the ABA’s introduction of tougher accreditation standards in May 2019, which shortened the timeframe schools have to ensure a 75-percent bar pass rate from five to two years. By contrast, law schools can maintain accreditation by the State Bar of California with a bar exam pass rate of 40 percent. The program accredited by the State Bar of California goes into effect for all College of Law students matriculating in the Fall 2020 semester and after.

As of Fall 2019, the College of Law had 240 students enrolled and accepted 65 percent of applicants,. The average incoming student has a 2.9 GPA and a 147 LSAT score.

Degrees offered
The College of Law offers the [|Juris Doctor (JD)] [|law degree]. This requires 88 credits, which can be done on a full-time basis over 3 years or on a part-time basis over 4 years.

The school also offers two dual-degree programs. The Juris Doctor/Master of Business Administration (JD/MBA) and Juris Doctor/Master of Public Administration (JD/MPA) were created in conjunction with the University of La Verne College of Business and Public Management.

Accreditation
On August 29, 2011, the College of Law announced it received accreditation from the Committee of Bar Examiners of the State Bar of California.

The College of Law first received provisional approval by the American Bar Association in 2006. Full approval was denied by the ABA in June 2011, as the first-time bar pass rate had not improved sufficiently. In March 2012, the ABA again granted provisional approval through 2017 following an extensive review of the law school’s program of legal education, faculty, admissions and student services, facilities, and bar pass rate.

On March 14, 2016, the College of Law received full accreditation from the American Bar Association.

In 2019, the College of Law announced plans to relinquish its ABA accreditation and pursue accreditation from the California State Bar instead. The college plans to allow students enrolled at the time of the transition to graduate with ABA-accredited degrees, with future students receiving California-accredited degrees.

Rankings
In 2018, U.S. News & World Report listed the College of Law as the second-most diverse law school in the nation.

In the Winter 2020 issue of preLaw Magazine, La Verne Law was named one of the “Best Schools for African Americans” and one of the “Best Schools for Hispanics.”

Law reviews, journals, and publications
University of La Verne Law Review ISSN 1944-382X OCLC 226246367 Journal of Juvenile Law ISSN 0160-2098 OCLC 3367760 Journal of Legal Advocacy & Practice ISSN 1534-5599 OCLC 42705442 Inter alia OCLC 44514382 Grand Jury Training (2003). Published by La Verne College of Law and the California Grand Jurors' Association (video seminar) OCLC 52204131

Legal clinics and student programs
In the summer of 2007, the College of Law opened the Disability Rights and Legal Center, followed by the Justice and Immigration Clinic in 2008.

Working in conjunction with the Education Advocacy Project (EAP), the Civil Rights Litigation Project, and the Community Advocacy Project (CAP), the Disability Rights and Legal Center provides [|pro bono] legal services involving [|disability civil rights], litigation, and [|special education issues] to low-income and minority families5. The Justice and Immigration Center represents asylum applicants who risk political, religious, or other human rights persecution when returning to their home countries.

Along with both legal clinics, the College of Law offers an [|externship] program that places its students in public or [|nonprofit agencies] to gain legal experience under the guidance of a [|practicing attorney].

Costs
For students admitted in Fall 2020, the La Verne College of Law bases tuition on a rate of $975 per unit for 1–15 unit courseloads and a flat semester rate of $15,600 for anything over. The cost of the entire 2019–20 academic year was $32,828, including tuition and fees after financial aid.

Employment
Based on figures from Law School Transparency, 20.7 percent of 2018’s 58 College of Law graduates found full-time employment, and 41.4 percent were underemployed. Of the students employed in law, 27.6 percent found positions in small firms, 12.1 percent went into public service, and 1.7 percent found positions in larger firms. 97.2 percent of graduates were employed in California29. That year, graduates had a first-time bar pass rate of 31.4 percent.

Based on the ABA Employment Summary for 2018 Graduates, 13 individuals were employed in roles requiring bar passage, 15 found positions in which a JD degree offered an advantage, and four had secured professional positions.

Explanation of issue: The history of the school and recent accreditation issues weren't thoroughly described. Also, all of the figures for employment, tuition, and bar pass rates weren't accurate. A large percentage of the current citations go to old documents or a 404 page. References supporting change: http://www.lavernehistoricalsociety.org/a-brief-history-of-la-verne.html https://www.cityoflaverne.org/index.php/about-la-verne/history-of-la-verne https://laverne.edu/about/institutional-history/ https://issuu.com/bookhouse1/docs/laverne_for_issuu https://laverne.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/La-Verne-Course-Catalog-2019-2020.pdf https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-sep-20-me-23922-story.html https://lvcampustimes.org/2002/04/ulv-separates-from-sf-college-of-law/ http://laverne.lawschoolnumbers.com/ http://nationaljurist.com/law-schools/university-la-verne-college-law https://www.law.com/therecorder/2019/11/21/la-area-law-school-to-remain-open-but-parts-ways-with-the-aba/ https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/05/legal-ed-bar-passage-rate/ https://www.calbar.ca.gov/Portals/0/documents/admissions/Education/MinimumPassRateStandardCumulativePassRates.pdf https://law.laverne.edu/accreditation/ http://laverne.lawschoolnumbers.com/ https://law.laverne.edu/jd/ https://law.laverne.edu/academics/dual-degree/ https://www.dailybulletin.com/2011/08/30/university-of-la-verne-college-of-law-gets-state-bar-of-california-accreditation/ https://www.americanbar.org/groups/legal_education/resources/aba_approved_law_schools/by_year_approved/ http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/la-verne-denied-aba-accreditation-over-bar-pass-rate-can-reapply-summer https://www.dailybulletin.com/2012/03/26/university-of-la-verne-college-of-law-awarded-provisional-approval-from-the-amercian-bar-association/ https://laverne.edu/news/2016/04/14/college-of-law-earns-full-aba-accreditation/ https://www.dailybulletin.com/2019/11/22/university-of-la-verne-law-school-in-ontario-staying-open-but-accreditation-change-coming/ https://laverne.edu/news/2018/06/08/u-s-news-world-report-ranks-college-law-second-nation-diversity/ https://www.bluetoad.com/publication/frame.php?i=648084&p=1&pn=&ver=html5 https://diverseeducation.com/article/10853/ https://law.laverne.edu/academics/clinical-programs/externship/ https://law.laverne.edu/admission/costs/ https://www.lstreports.com/schools/laverne/costs/ https://www.lstreports.com/schools/laverne/ https://www.abajournal.com/news/article/law-school-with-bar-passage-rate-under-75-thinking-about-what-comes-next https://law.laverne.edu/careers/files/2019/04/Employment-Summary-Class-of-2018.pdf

Carnegie Comm (talk) 16:09, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ The first thing that I have implemented are the University's Employment stats, however I will not use the text you proposed, instead I will refer directly to the following references: . The other refs are unnecessary. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 17:02, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Proposed Changes to University of La Verne College of Law
Information to be added:

History
As enrollment grew, La Verne College of Law merged with the San Fernando Valley College of Law in 1985. However, the two operated as independent entities under the University of La Verne until 2002, when the [|University of West Los Angeles] purchased the San Fernando Valley College of Law campus.

For the first 30 years of its existence, the La Verne College of Law operated as a State Bar of California–accredited program. The school decided to seek American Bar Association (ABA) accreditation in 1996 and received provisional accreditation in 2006. While that status lapsed by 2011, it was reinstated by 2012. By 2016, the school gained full ABA accreditation and, for the next three years, was known as the Inland Empire’s only ABA-accredited law school.

In November 2019, the College of Law’s board of trustees voted to convert the school from an ABA-accredited institution to one again accredited by the State Bar of California. The move followed an investigation by the school’s faculty and administrators to evaluate the source of declining enrollment and develop a plan for the law school’s future. The school’s decision was also influenced by the ABA’s introduction of tougher accreditation standards in May 2019, which shortened the timeframe schools have to ensure a 75-percent bar pass rate from five to two years.

The program accredited by the State Bar of California went into effect for all College of Law students matriculating in the Fall 2020 semester and after.

Explanation of issue: The University of La Verne College of Law has a lengthier history, which is currently not included on the existing Wikipedia page. In the '80s, the school acquired a second law school, and in the 2000s and 2010s, the law school experienced multiple accreditation issues.

References supporting change: https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-sep-20-me-23922-story.html https://lvcampustimes.org/2002/04/ulv-separates-from-sf-college-of-law/ http://nationaljurist.com/law-schools/university-la-verne-college-law https://www.law.com/therecorder/2019/11/21/la-area-law-school-to-remain-open-but-parts-ways-with-the-aba/ https://www.americanbar.org/news/abanews/aba-news-archives/2019/05/legal-ed-bar-passage-rate/ https://law.laverne.edu/accreditation/

Carnegie Comm (talk) 17:25, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

Response to Requested Edit
I implemented the edit to the extent it was supported by the sources. I also modified some wording and removed a sentence or two that were promotional and likely not appropriate for Wikipedia due to lack of NPOV and undue weight. DocFreeman24 (talk) 00:58, 2 December 2020 (UTC)

Page Start
Started the University of La Verne College of Law page because it was the only ABA accredited law school in California without its own Wikipedia page. Hopefully others, who are more familiar with the school, will be able to contribute more.--Mitamarine (talk) 13:34, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

ABA-Approval Section
I would respectfully submit that listing details of accreditation history is being given undue weight here, and is also not notable. This is especially true in that the school currently is ABA-approved. Furthermore, I'd like to (respectfully, again) remind editors of that nobody owns Wikipedia articles. Despite some condescending posts being made on my talk page by another editor, my edits are both constructive and made in good faith. While there can always be room for disagreement, to fundamentally remove them and constantly make posts on my talk page demanding acquiesence smacks of article ownership and is in itself not constructive. 67.174.238.254 (talk) 00:17, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * I'd like to add that the Western State University College of Law article should be looked at as a good guide here. Like La Verne, they had ABA, lost it, and regained it.  Their ABA approval section simply lists the fact that they are approved--which is notable.  Prior administrative details of the ABA is simply not notable and, if included, would be given undue weight. 67.174.238.254 (talk) 00:30, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Arguing "this other page does it a different way" typically falls under WP:OSE. Is the accreditation of the school an important part of its history? I'd say yes, it definitely is. Yes, nobody owns the article, but generally less goodwill is given to IP editors, especially who have a single purpose account. tedder (talk) 00:55, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Agree with tedder. WSU COL is not an example to follow. Besides giving (and preserving) a brief history of the approval processes, we should consider if such info is helpful to the reader. I surmise that many readers are considering La Verne, and they ought to have historical info. (Info which La Verne is not likely to present on their website.)
 * Also as a matter of considerate editing, this back and forth editing is creating citation errors. (Use the preview button!) For no other reason than to correct those errors I'm going to revert. --S. Rich (talk) 04:30, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Notability / Merge and redirect
I am failing to see who this university department meets the College and university article guidelines guidelines for stand alone article, none of the sources address the subject in any detail. As such the University of La Verne should be expanded and this should be redirected to there, in the alternative this could be deleted. Mt king  (edits)  02:47, 28 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Oppose - (Oppose both merger and notability deletion) 1. While many universities have law schools associated with them, there are numerous independent law schools. Do we leave their articles as is? (E.g., should law schools such as Stanford's get merged too?) 1.a. A school or college of law is not a "constituent academic college, or academic department". Accordingly, the guideline cited does not apply. (Such schools are professional schools, not academic colleges or departments.) Indeed, (2.) law schools have their own deans and are subject to their own (ABA) accreditation standards (as opposed to other schools), and are usually licensed as separate institutions. 3. Along the same lines, do medical schools, dental schools, business schools, etc., get merged into their associated universities as well? No. Again, because they are not "departments" or "constituent academic colleges". 4. We have an infobox template dedicated to law schools, which is used throughout WP for hundreds of law school articles. 5. The article is start class -- it can be improved with info on Law Reviews, notable alumni and faculty, community services provided (such as law clinics), etc. --S. Rich (talk) 04:23, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I beg to differ, the college's own handbook makes it clear that "The University consists of the College of Arts and Sciences, the College of Business and Public Management, the College of Education and Organizational Leadership, the College of Law, and the Regional Campus Administration." so they do apply, and WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS is no reason not to fix this article, yes other academic college's do get redirected, for example Articles for deletion/University at Buffalo College of Arts & Sciences. Mt  king  (edits)  06:50, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Please note in WP:UNIGUIDE the params says "specific stand-alone programs like medical, law, and divinity schools should be mentioned" in the lede. Point being, the vast majority of articles about medical school, divinity schools, law schools are treated as stand-alone programs. Regardless of LaVerne's own description, merging this articles as an exception is not helpful.


 * Oppose - I would suggest to the nominator to search for sources, as almost all law schools pass the GNG. Given this school's ABA approval odyssey, I'm sure there have been plenty of articles in bar journals and the papers in that area. Aboutmovies (talk) 06:38, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I did, came up empty handed and proposed a murge/redirect as an alternative to AfD as per WP:BEFORE, but without the sources to demonstrate that it has had the coverage then it does not meet the guidelines. Mt  king  (edits)
 * A quick check through just the first 5 pages of G-news hits gave me, , , , , , , and all appear to be from RS and have more than trivial coverage. That took about 3 minutes, so I'm sure if I spent 10 minutes I'd find more, perhaps listings in US News & World Report every year for the past 20+ years that USNWR has been publishing their law school rankings. Aboutmovies (talk) 06:38, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
 * A quick check through just the first 5 pages of G-news hits gave me, , , , , , , and all appear to be from RS and have more than trivial coverage. That took about 3 minutes, so I'm sure if I spent 10 minutes I'd find more, perhaps listings in US News & World Report every year for the past 20+ years that USNWR has been publishing their law school rankings. Aboutmovies (talk) 06:38, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

With no additional support for the proposal, I'm deleting the tags. --S. Rich (talk) 06:45, 26 April 2012 (UTC)