Talk:University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey

Untitled
Surely there is something worth saying about this university other than the basic facts and the scandals it has been through. Doesn't it have any noteworthy programs to describe? What about its facilities? Its faculty? Its alumni? The article should at least describe its degree programs and campuses. 4.131.154.113 (talk) 05:08, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

"... it is the largest school of health sciences of its kind in the United States." This statement is meaningless unless we know what "kind" of school of health sciences it is. If it is the country's largest school of health sciences, then "of its kind" is redundant. Otherwise, the article should define this term. 4.131.154.113 (talk) 05:08, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

"The criminal complaint filed against the institution charges...double-billing of Medicaid between May 2001 and November 2008..." but the source cited (Health Care Fraud Report) notes that this happened "...between May 2001 and November 2004..."Gmtcwrite (talk) 17:12, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

Assessment comments
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I have assessed this article as C-class and identified the following areas for improvement:  shirulashem     (talk)   19:52, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The article is not comprehensive and needs expansion

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"criminal conspiracy"
Recent edits have alleged in the article and in edit summaries that there was a criminal conspiracy. This is, alas, not justified. There was a deferred prosecution agreement; the UMDNJ was not prosecuted, and hence not found guilty of any criminal activity.

(It doesn't help that practically every source pertaining to this has gone 404. Sigh. I might see if IAbot can rescue some of them).

Likewise "conspiracy" doesn't seem to be justified. It takes two to conspire; with whom did UMDNJ conspire?

I do agree that the current wording - a series of over-billings - is too weak, but a strong wording would need to be sourced. In particular we simply cannot make unsourced allegations of criminality when charges have been, owing to a DPA, dropped. Pinkbeast (talk) 15:25, 15 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Your comments are wise and well-reasoned. I reverted your edit thinking you were trying to whitewash what happened. Nonetheless, I suspect conspiracy is the right word. While nobody was convicted it seems clear they did it. Tell you what, reflect about it for a day, maybe research if there is a policy and I will have no objection to whatever you may do. I am still in this Soprano State book. If I find more about this remarkable school, I shall add it. Great book. &#39;&#39;Paul, in Saudi&#39;&#39; (talk) 16:05, 15 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Frankly these deferred prosecution agreements produce an odd situation where there is no admission of wrongdoing and no guilty verdict even though it is well established that a thing which is ordinarily criminal happened. This makes it difficult to use words like "criminal" even though we are talking about a crime.
 * "Conspiracy" I think is an easier one - although I am slightly flippant in asking whom they conspired with, because clearly a conspiracy can be internal to a single organisation, it's difficult to argue that there was definitely such a degree of widespread - well, not just complicity but active agreement on the course of action - as can reasonably constitute a conspiracy.
 * In both cases I think the same advice applies - sources first! The more reliable sources can be found to justify either "criminal" or "conspiracy", the easier it is to put both words in the article. Pinkbeast (talk) 17:41, 15 July 2017 (UTC)
 * I agree. Better to understate it than to risk losing credibility by using unsourced terms. The initial description, "Medicaid over-billings" that drew a "criminal complaint", still gives readers the picture. Barte (talk) 19:58, 15 July 2017 (UTC)

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