Talk:University of the Arts London

UAL Abbreviation
The abbreviation, 'UAL', has been employed by the university and its students, including various other notable organizations. I have merely plucked a reference at random to support this. If you deem it insufficient, feel free to select one of your own to replace it:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=en-us&q=University+of+the+Arts+London+UAL&btnG=Search

Entangle (talk) 21:09, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Article update - July 2008
I've spent the entire day expanding the article with corresponding references. I suspect I'll have the opportunity to continue throughout this week, so any claims that need certifying will probably be added shortly. Entangle (talk) 18:00, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

University ratings
(I'm posting this to all articles on UK universities as so far discussion hasn't really taken off on WikiProject Universities.)

There needs to be a broader convention about which university rankings to include in articles. Currently it seems most pages are listing primarily those that show the institution at its best (or worst in a few cases). See Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Universities. Timrollpickering 23:53, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Article update - August 2007
The much needed article update was referenced from Barkers Digital (http://www.barkersdigital.co.uk/UOA/CBC/arts/about.asp). If this violates any notable guidelines, feel free to revert to the previous article. I will then promptly write an original article from said reference.

- Aogaeru —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Aogaeru (talk • contribs).


 * I have left a comment at User talk:Aogaeru. — mholland (talk) 19:25, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Article update - December 2007
I've made some minor changes to how sentences were worded to retain neutrality, and in one case removed the sentence concerning the proposed move to Kings Cross because I don't believe it's required on Wikipedia yet. It was also worded with a sense of uncertainty, which didn't help to support matters.

I've also added the necessary citation(s). Umbrageous (talk) 09:42, 16 December 2007 (GMT)

Controversial material
I removed an unsourced paragraph that was also added to Michael Bichard, saying that there were student complaints about the university management. The text added to the article on Bichard said that a QAA report had endorsed these. QAA is in principle an excellent source so if someone wanted to summarise the report, good points as well as criticisms, trying to reflect exactly the QAA's verdict, then that would be entirely appropriate. Itsmejudith (talk) 09:39, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

London College of Fashion Location
As far as I am aware, London College of Fashion is situated around Oxford Street (John Prince's Street), as correctly stated and uses the University's offices off Bond Street (Davies Street). I don't believe they have any premises in Westminster but I may be wrong. Please feel free to re-ad the location if need be. I've removed it for the time being and replaced it with Bond Street. Fineite (talk) 20:16, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

London College of Communication Alumni
Hi, I tried to do it yesterday, but was unsuccessful in formatting it -- but right now, it looks like ST MARTINS gets the lions share of the Alumni listing. That's all good -- but why not ismply make the page better by importing the LCC names too? There are some major names there -- Steadman, Boaden, Brody and more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.138.57.171 (talk) 01:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I added appropriate lists for each College, taking into account that Central Saint Martins and the London College of Fashion have associate schools/colleges attached. Central Saint Martins, in particular, has a larger body of Alumni, thus explaining the slightly longer list. Each College has their own Wikipedia article representing their respective Alumni in full. This article is primarily about the University itself. Having a bloated Alumni list for each College on this article is not necessary nor appropriate. Entangle (talk) 09:29, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Updates and inaccuracies
This page hasn't been updated for a while and a lot of the information is out of date, particularly the financial information and league tables. A lot of the information is also factually incorrect, including student numbers and some of the historical information. I would like to update this information - however I work for the University so if anyone would like to see my suggested changes before I make them, please let me know. AbigailSmith1961 (talk) 10:24, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks for declaring the possible COI. If the edits are purely factual updates, and are properly cited, then that should be fine. Rangoon11 (talk) 13:05, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks - I've made the changes, please let me know if there is anything you want to query or discuss. AbigailSmith1961 (talk) 09:31, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

Reference format
I'd like to do some work on this article, and in particular to try to improve the referencing. Would anyone mind if I migrated the referencing system to list-defined at the same time? I'll probably do so in a day or two if and only if no-one objects in any way. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 13:59, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Alumni
There are a lot of alumni listed in this article, but hardly any of them attended this institution, which was formed (in various stages) from about thirty years ago. As far as I can see, not one of the five "alumni" pictured ever actually went there – all attended institutions that later became part of this one (NB I'm not 100% sure when Roth was at Camberwell). I suggest limiting the alumni section to those who actually studied at the London Institute or UAL, and to a limited number of the most notable, described in prose/running text. Any objection, for any reason? If not, I'll probably go ahead with this in a day or two. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 13:30, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅, now removed. I'm open to any suggestion/comment as to what if anything should be added back; I've written a brief placeholder for now. Anyone? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:56, 18 May 2018 (UTC)

/* Research */
I'm editing the research section to include reference to the UAL's REF 2014 resultsCatcooper (talk) 08:52, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Er, no. If you want to propose changes, you'll first need to make an appropriate paid editor disclosure, and then post your suggestion here, on this page. I've left some general instructions below. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:27, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Conflict of interest
At least one major contributor to this article appears to have a close personal or professional connection to the topic, and thus to have a conflict of interest. Conflict-of-interest editors are strongly discouraged from editing the article directly, but are always welcome to propose changes on the talk page (i.e., here). You can attract the attention of other editors by putting request edit (exactly so, with the curly parentheses) at the beginning of your request, or by clicking the link on the lowest yellow notice above. Requests that are not supported by independent reliable sources are unlikely to be accepted.

Please also note that our Terms of Use state that "you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation." An editor who contributes as part of his or her paid employment is required to disclose that fact. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 10:27, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

Some proposed changes
History section:


 * UAL has a new Chair of Governors, effective 1 August 2018: David Isaac CBE: http://newsevents.arts.ac.uk/53982/david-isaac-cbe-named-new-chair-of-governors/
 * David succeeds Sir John Sorrell who had a 5 year term at UAL from 2013-2018: http://newsevents.arts.ac.uk/53283/sir-john-sorrell-to-retire-as-ual-chair/
 * Wimbledon College of Art reference should be Wimbledon College of Arts

Research section:

The 2014 Research Excellence Framework (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Research_Excellence_Framework ) supersedes the 2001 and 2008 Research Assessment Exercise referred to in the article.

UAL's results page is published here: http://results.ref.ac.uk/Results/ByHei/23 - The 2014 evaluation placed UAL in the overall top 30 UK research institutions for the quality of research submitted. It is a top 5 research university in its broader peer group and first in the Power ranking in the Art and Design: History, Practice and Theory category: http://blogs.arts.ac.uk/research/2014/12/18/ual-ref-2014/

UAL Research Online could become a link: http://ualresearchonline.arts.ac.uk/12449/

Rankings and reputation section:

Central Saint Martins, UAL and London College of Fashion, UAL rank first place and fourth place respectively in the 2017 Business of Fashion Global Fashion School Rankings. https://www.businessoffashion.com/education/rankings/2017

Catcooper (talk) 15:33, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Reply to edit request 02-AUG-2018
Below you will see where proposals from your request have been quoted with reviewer decisions and feedback inserted underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please read the enclosed notes for information on each request.  spintendo   21:28, 2 August 2018 (UTC)

Some proposed additions to 'Research' Section
2014 analysis by Times Higher Education showing comparative research performance of UK Higher Education Institutions:

Times Higher Education: Research Excellence Framework 2014-Institutions Ranked by Subject: https://www.timeshighereducation.com/sites/default/files/Attachments/2014/12/17/x/o/z/sub-14-01.pdf

Times Higher Education: Research Excellence Framework 2014 - Overall Ranking of Institutions: https://www.timeshighereducation.com/sites/default/files/Attachments/2014/12/17/k/a/s/over-14-01.pdf

Catcooper (talk) 11:58, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Some proposed changes
'Research' Section - Proposed Addition UAL ranks in the overall top 30 in UK’s latest higher education research audit. Source: http://blogs.arts.ac.uk/research/2014/12/18/ual-ref-2014/

'Research' Section - Proposed Addition UAL Research Online: Make this text a hyperlink to: http://ualresearchonline.arts.ac.uk/

'Rankings and reputation' Section - Proposed Addition

GLOBAL FASHION SCHOOL RANKINGS 2017 Central Saint Martins rank: 1 London College of Fashion rank: 4 Source: https://www.businessoffashion.com/education/rankings/2017

Catcooper (talk) 10:38, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Reply 03-AUG-2017

 * 1) "UAL ranks in the overall top 30 in UK’s latest higher education research audit." This reads like a news headline and Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWSPAPER.
 * 2) Bare links to outside of Wikipedia are generally not used in the main text, per point No. 2 @ WP:ELPOINTS.
 * 3) "GLOBAL FASHION SCHOOL RANKINGS 2017 Central Saint Martins rank: 1 London College of Fashion rank: 4" is not a coherent sentence. This should be written as prose using upper case letters only at the beginning of sentences, before it can be placed in the article.
 * Regards,  spintendo   11:57, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

some comments on these claims
That article on the UAL website misrepresents the coverage from THE on the REF. Sentences like "It is a top 5 research university in its broader peer group" are just stating that it's top 5 in a self selected group!

UAL isn't included in any overall rankings (so the top 30 overall claim is dubious - the THE had a separate single subject ranking that UAL came =4th in https://www.timeshighereducation.com/sites/default/files/Attachments/2014/12/17/k/a/s/over-14-01.pdf ) and is ranked =15th for GPA and output and 24th for impact in the subject specific ranking 34 Art and Design: History, practice and theory https://www.timeshighereducation.com/sites/default/files/Attachments/2014/12/17/g/o/l/sub-14-01.pdf p35/36

Also the REF wasn't an audit.

The BOF ranking is unfortunately something that only fashion schools paying a subscription to BOF are included in (between £6,000 and £20,000 pa https://www.dropbox.com/s/aib80uy58vdopul/Education%20Packages.pdf?dl=0 ). Tip.Stall (talk) 12:09, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

Proposed addition to 'Research' section
Research Excellence Framework 2014 Results by Subject: Times Higher Education: https://www.timeshighereducation.com/sites/default/files/Attachments/2014/12/17/k/a/s/over-14-01.pdf

Catcooper (talk) 13:34, 28 August 2018 (UTC)


 * "Research Excellence Framework 2014 Results by Subject" is a title or a headline, and by itself it does not add anything constructive to the article. Is this meant to be an External Link?  spintendo   22:54, 28 August 2018 (UTC)